is ANYTHING more annoying that drop out?

[Zak33]

I mean....WHAT can be more irritating and what could make me more angry than drop out?

Tonight, for the first time in months, loads of our IL-2 squadron made it online together, and we were properly involved with an online war, and I was leading my wing into battle...after 1 hour of waiting AND then 15 mniutes strategic flying...

and then....DROP OUT!!

I am absolutely FED UP with this problem. I a so angry right now that purely the willpower of being an admin is stopping me from firing swear words all over the place

WHY is ADSL Max so unstable?
WHY must I put up with late evening/nightitme drop out?
WHY was normal ADSL 100% stable and WHY can't two different routers hold a stable connection?

Because....as far as I can tell, BT are incapable of sustaining a proper signal to noise ratio at peak times.

Zen have done their utmost, and next week I have a BT engineer due to visit. I can just tell that the potential for he/she pointing out that the extension to the PC room may be the problem is high.

The fact that I can plug the routerinto the master plug, in the hall, and run a CAT5 cable to the PC may be totally ignored.

I am worried that my description of personally watching the street lights every night to time when they turn on, and that I have turned off every timer in my house to prevent power spikes, may be ignored.

The fact is that, at some point most nights, between 9 and midnight, my spare signal to noise buffer zone (SNR margin) gets gobbled up by someone, is doing me in.

Tonight....just as my friends and countrymen were climbing into battle, striving for height and energy in their Lagg3's and Yak 7's, the 109's came diving into us, scattering the transports that we were escorting.....and their leader dropped out.

I lost connnection.....

I could see the enemy warping in front of me...and then team speak went down....and I lost them.

I AM SO ANGRY!!!! Even my Vigor can't hold a connection. My Netgear loses it too.

I've just checked my ADSL STATUS with a telnet request, and even Interleaving is on....
which I requested be off, for ping. So....on the whole...I'm guttted!

/sigh

Anyone else wanna really rant....go for it!

[Zak33]

is any...(and I mean ANY?) of this true?

ADSL frequencies work at the same frequencies as MW/AM radio. During the night when the sun is below the horizon it's effect on the ionosphere is much less meaning that all ADSL frequencies propagate (travel) much further during the night. This means that there is much more interference at these frequencies when the sun is below the horizon and as your daytime SNR is already borderline it doesn't take that much interference at night to lower the SNR below a stable value, hence your disconnects. The overhead cable doesn't help as it acts as an aerial picking up interference. All you can do is to maximise your internal wiring. Try testing at the test socket behind the master socket faceplate see if it is better. If it is better then consider removing the ring wire and/or fitting a filtered facplate. Either of which will help minimise any noise from your internal wiring affectung your connection.

[Zak33]

oh tell me it's not true...someone!

What a brilliant answer!

And the science behind it is spot on. ADSL uses MW frequencies so MW radio is the most likely interference suspect. Just try scanning for MW channels on your radio at night - you can pull in Radio Albania on occassions. Although the OP's line is underground when it gets to his house, it is probably above ground at some point in its journey which is where the interference is picked up.

[Agent]

Its MW/LW as far as i can tell.
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archi...colinwooff.ppt

Follow your telephone cable from the box - does it go past any electronics. I mean *anything* ?
What filter do you have ?
Any wireless devices in your house ? (network, phone, ect.)
Any problems with the voice part of your line ?
Which Draytek is it mate ?

[BUFF]

just think of the golden days when you had NTL & criticised them roundly...
the grass isn't always greener

[ajbrun]

Think I listened in on you playing on TS for a bit .

Yes, it is VERY annoying. Whilst you were playing, there was a CS:S match going on, and I had a disconnect during that. The other clan were very good though and let us restart. We still lost badly though .

I've pretty much given up trying to sort this problem now. I've ended up accepting it which shouldn't be the case.

[Zak33]

Its MW/LW as far as i can tell.
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archi...colinwooff.ppt

Follow your telephone cable from the box - does it go past any electronics. I mean *anything* ?
What filter do you have ?
Any wireless devices in your house ? (network, phone, ect.)
Any problems with the voice part of your line ?
Which Draytek is it mate ?

I have tried 3 different filters on both the ADSL router and the only phone.

Yes I have a 2 wireless phones, on one BT plug. I have had both unplugged totally and had drop out.

The drop out only happens at night, and it happens very quickly. It doesnt slowly deteriorate over many hours.....it takes about 1 minute. You can feel the connection losing its grip, whether playing or surfing.

And during the day, when I work from home 2 days per week, ALL DAY, online, it's stable as hell.

I'm gonna try leaving it on 24/7 now. I hate doing it, but now that it's retrained at night, after the loss of SNR, once it reconnects (which it does with no bother) I will now leave it on for the rest of the week and see if it does it again, my thought being that maybe it now has a larger margin, having connected at the noiser, slower speed.

When BT arrive, I shall have the router plugged in downstairs, in the hall, no mistake!

[Steve]

I'm gonna try leaving it on 24/7 now.

Really you should leave a router on 24/7.

[Spud1]

What speed is your line?

MY parents had constant disconnects with UKonline last year, they were on the 8meg service. In the end the way to fix it was for UKonline to but a 4meg cap on the line - this made it 100% stable..

[Steve]

Zak33's got the tools to 'cap' his own line if he so wishes, thanks to the Draytek.

[Spud1]

Not sure if capping it locally would make a difference, thinking more at the exchange end

[Steve]

I know for a fact that it can help your SNR. Not sure if it matters which end it's done at... no harm in finding out.

[jamin]

While the ADSL system does match roughly the MW frequencies used for broadcast. I am not sure that this will be the sole cause of your problem. Normally a condition on the line will lead to RF leakage.

BT's local loop network has been around since the birth of electronic communications and has undergone very little change since the first days of operator assisted call connections. A modern local loop would consist of copper cable only, which performs well across the whole frequency spectrum. BUT, due to costs and availability over the years, BT have used not only copper, but lead and paper, aluminium and silk wrapped cables to name but a few. While not a massive problem if used on their own, when one section of one is jointed to another, this is where the problems occur. Many line conditions can occur as a result of this! Galvanic reactions between dissimilar metals can put stray voltages on the line (As little as 0.1V can cause problems), poor insulation can lead to battery voltage leaking accross pairs, mismatched impedances can cause echo and reflections, partial shorts will kill ADSL, earths will suck out line voltage and lead to problems. I have even seen a spare pair which has been coiled using a screwdriver (to look neat) acting as an inductor and leaking RF onto a pair in use.

In short, insist that the engineer performs a test with an SA9083 meter (any good telephony engineer will live by this meter) this will detect electrical conditions on the line, ie shorts, earths and partial disses. And demand a full line diagnostic using a TDR (Time domain reflectometer) and/or an Echo analyser.

Copper pairs were never designed for ADSL usage, all telephony networks were originally desinged to use 3khz bandwidth, however since the mid to late 80's copper has been used to carry HDSL data at up to 2mb synchronous, so the problems associated with data over copper are not new.

Hope this helps...

[beanbandit]

I know what your going through Zak, i'm getting the same thing. No warning, no lag, just disconnected. Its starting to get very annoying as i've just started raiding in WOW with my guild, all of a sudden during a boss fight i lose connection and Vent drops out, not a good way to impress my guild mates.

I've been onto BT for the usual line test, nothing wrong, then get told to turn off AV/Firewall and see if i still get dc, thats not going to happen. ADSL Max was a big mistake for me

[Zak33]

futher update:

Ive requested that Zen ask BT to reapply/recheck my SNR Margin, as I'm pretty damn sure it's gone back to the default level.

My Draytek Vigor WONT support the rate capping I asked them personally, and it's not supported on a 2600 so that sods that up.

I now have to wait for BT to visit next Tuesday.

Mean time I pray they do raise the SNR margin, as it worked last time.

Jamin, thanks for the details on the tech equip and tests required, I'm hoping I get a human at the door this time, not a jobs-worth, as I'm prepared to BEG for this to be sorted!

LIne speed on the router normally shows at just over 4mb, but thats rubbish as every speed test I ever run shows it at just below 2mb.

If I run the router from the BT Master socket, with no cabling or extension leads the SNR margin and Loop Attenuation stay within 1/2 point of the normal plug socket BUT the ADSL sync speed goes up to over 6mb. It still continues to work as a 2mb connection even then though.

I'm leaving the router in the hall tonight and will play again....just less important games, and see if we get drop out.

Having disconnected now, since last nights retrain, I am now back to SMR Margin on 7 and I know thats' not gonna be enough.

/sigh

ADSL Max my arse.....ADSL Sux more like

[Steve]

Ah, sorry Zak, forgot you didn't have the 2800

I don't know if this will be of any use, but this is a page from my ISP:
http://www.newnet.co.uk/broadband/adslmaxfaq.php

When a user upgrades to ADSL Max the system will attempt to synchronise the user modem/router and the BT exchange DSLAM to determine the maximum stable rate (MSR). ADSL Max is rate adaptive - the BT system will record upper and lower line rates. Data will be collected for a MINIMUM of 10 DAYS before the lower line rate is rounded down and to become the MSR. The Fault Threshold Rate (FTR) will be set at a level 30% below MSR. There is likely to be some alteration to the line speed whilst the BT system undergoes 'training' to find the MSR. Once the MSR is set this will be the benchmark level for the lifetime of the connection.