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Thread: Routers- help a n00b

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    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    Routers- help a n00b

    Right, I know plenty about most aspect of PC hardware, but little about networking, especially wireless. For reasons too dull to go into here, my brother has ended up with NTL broadband in the sitting room, whereas his PC is in the front room, right across the other side of the house. A 40' Cat5 cable isn't really an option. So, as far as I can gather, he needs a wireless router, and a wireless card for his PC (a recent Dell desktop- Dimension 3100 I think it is).

    The router won't need any fancy features beyond supporting some encryption so that people can't nick his card details or freeload his connection. Same goes for the card I guess. The only thing I was wondering was whether it's better to go for a USB2 wifi dongle or a PCI card. Although the comp has at least one spare PCI slot I'm thinking USB will be even easier, and more flexible should he change comps in the future. Any performance overhead is immaterial as he's a light user and it's a P4 521 with HT.

    So, I'm hoping someone will make my life easy and recommend me some cheap but good products. If Scan sell 'em at a competitive price so much the better. Hoping to spend less than £50 but obviously will have to spend whatever is necessary.

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    PCI would be better.

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    PCI Card will definitely be better than a USB - and a card + Router for £50 - has got to be low order or second hand....

    I can recommend NetGear is this Cable or ADSL? Will the router require a Modem or not?

    Also have you considered HomePlug?
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    The King of Vague Steve B's Avatar
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    NTL is cabled so you wont need an ADSL router. Getting a wireless setup will be difficult for 50 quid. PCI wireless is definitely a vast improvement over USB wireless, however, itll cost slightly more.

    I'd also consider homeplug as an option, if you're just linking to one computer.

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    Network|Geek kidzer's Avatar
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    A PCI Wireless card will be better, yes - but its a dell machine, if you open it do you not break a sticker, ergo invalidating your warranty on the machine?
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    For what its worth my CISCO 350 pci sux. My belkin USB works great, and my USR PCMCIA is tops. The beauty of USB is you can use a cheap extension lead to position for best signal.
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    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    O.K.- I don't know if they have a seperate cable modem (like mine- I'm on NTL too), or if the cable box is also the modem. Whatever, AFAIK it matters not, as I spoke to the sibling after my first post and as a stopgap measure he's put the PC in the sitting room and hooked it up via 'ethernet' ("s' wat the cable says'), and t'internet is working fine. So yes- I don't need a router with any kind of modem built in, as he has a functioning one.

    Quote Originally Posted by kidzer View Post
    A PCI Wireless card will be better, yes - but its a dell machine, if you open it do you not break a sticker, ergo invalidating your warranty on the machine?
    No- surprisingly it's actually very easy to get into. The Dell replaced the TBred A @ 1800MHz homebuilt box that I left him when I moved out, which had become very flaky. I put it down to HD trouble, but simply using mum's cash to buy a spanking new box complete with a 17" LCD screen for about £350 after cashback seemed a very simple option. When it arrived I thought it was worth a try whipping the side off and plugging in the old HD to try and copy all their old data across- and the whole operation was a walk in the park. The side comes off with a couple of simple latches, I pulled the IDE lead off the Dell CDRW drive, and a reboot later the data was on its way. Once the job was done, it went back together just as easily.

    The old box, having had a repair install (which actually wiped all the old data anyway ), now appears to be working fine, and is now at a friend's house awaiting the arrival of an ADSL modem from Orange so said friend can enjoy the free broadband offered as part of his new Dolphin 35 package.

    So anyway- why are PCI cards better? Installing a PCI card is no problemo at all, just interested to know. As for Homeplug- sounds interesting, and practical, but I know nothing about it. If you can just get devices that plug into a socket and broadcast any ethernet signal recieved via the home mains circuit, then that will work fine, since there's only the modem on one end and the PC on the other. If there's any kind of networking involved, then I reckon wireless would be just as simple?

    I repeat guys, that I'm only needing the very simplest stuff here, I.E. that necessary to connect the PC to the cable modem. I can whang Avast and some sort of firewall onto his PC with no bother. As long as the router isn't broadcasting his every move to all and sundry and inviting them to ponce his bandwidth, that'll do.

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    The King of Vague Steve B's Avatar
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    alot of people have said that homeplug is plug-and-play easily, so i dont think its a problem to set up.

    the PCI cards are better than the USB devices as they have a much higher gain, so the signal is usually of superior quality. think thats how it works anyway.

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    Administrator Moby-Dick's Avatar
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    what about powerline networking ?

    I suspect its more reliable than WiFi


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    Although you ruled out 40' of ethernet cable, that would be the cheapest, simplest and most reliable connection. Ethernet isn't that much thicker than telephone cable, and with careful positioning can be made almost invisible. You could run it outside the house (if both rooms are on an outside wall, but withought knowing the geography of the house, can't comment further! Good places to tack cable is on the top of skirtibg borads, or under the edges of carpet, round door frames etc (also a good place to drill holes to push the cable through.

    It will take a bit of time and care to make a discrete job, but it can be done... (the secret is as much in the planning!)
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    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    It's a long way Peter- quite a big house- and frankly too much bother. If I'm poking the wire through drilled holes I'd then need to buy a plug crimper etc. to terminate it.

    As for homeplug, I've been investigating it with limited success. What I'm angling for is for someone to come along and tell me exactly what to buy.

    Edit: Also, the homeplug devices will have to plug into 4-way power splitter cords at both ends (not enough plugs otherwise). Would that be a problem?

    I may well encounter a similar situation myself when I move, so I'd like to find out about routers etc for when I do. It'd be nice to have my two comps connected to the net without the main one acting as connection sharer. I might even be able to get my wife's ancient Win98 lappy hooked up to the net- or is that too much of an ask?
    Last edited by Rave; 29-09-2006 at 02:19 PM.

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    The King of Vague Steve B's Avatar
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    Homeplug acts as a crossover cable rather than a patch lead iirc. Main difference is, extra pairs on a crossover cable allow it to communicate both ways, without the need for packet routing (done using a router or a switch)

    So you can only get one computer on homeplug, unless your sharing a connection through a computer, rather than to a computer.

    I'd say in your brothers case, the best case is to go homeplug, as he only has one PC. As his house is quite big, you'd need some beefy wireless kit to get the connection through the house. That'll give you internet access to the pc, so that it doesn't need to be so close to the TV.

    In your situation, i'd go for a wireless router setup, as you need more than one connection. If you can get it, go wired, as its generally more secure and reliable.

    Regarding the laptop, you can buy USB-Ethernet dongles, or PCMIA ethernet cards cheap as chips, be it wired or wireless, so you should be ok whichever you go for.

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    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    The house is a 4-bed semi, so the comp and modem are seperated by about 15 metres (20 at the outside) and three or so walls. Would that be too much of a struggle for wi-fi?

    I was thinking this: http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Produ...oductID=457260

    and this:

    http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Produ...oductID=279366

    Both seem to support WPA. I can't find many places selling homeplug gear but prices seem to start at about £20 per sender, which for something that may not work any better than wireless (due to extension cables etc.) and has a lot less future expansion potential, seems a lot.

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    The King of Vague Steve B's Avatar
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    indeed, although im not sure how that setup will fair, as it depends on the thickness of the walls, materials doorways and stuff like that.

    Those components look alright, however, you might want to invest in higher gain antennas for them. Theres a website floating around on here that sells pretty hefty ones for a tenner, which would be worthwhile investing in as it'll give you better signal strength.

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    Are you Junglin' guy? jamin's Avatar
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    Rave mate, has he had NTL for long? Has it just been installed? If it has, phone them up and tell them it was installed in the wrong place. If its been in a while, then it will cost £25 to get them to move it. If it is a combined Cable box / modem, the older pace ones only support 1mb. So they come out free and put in a proper seperate modem giving you full bandwidth and put it where you want.

    Might save buggering about with wireless when he doesnt need to!
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    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamin View Post
    Rave mate, has he had NTL for long? Has it just been installed? If it has, phone them up and tell them it was installed in the wrong place.
    They've just upgraded from an ancient analogue box to digital. I don't know whether they have a seperate modem or not- I was round tonight, should have had a look. They asked the installer to put the modem in the front room and he refused, apparently. I wonder whether it's worth phoning up and complaining before buying all this gear.
    Last edited by Rave; 29-09-2006 at 08:57 PM.

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