Building a fast pc

Finally, after being forced to work off a laptop for far too long, I've got the cash together to build my dream machine (cue spontaneous drooling).

I know you've probably heard it all before, but I've got an idea what I'm going for, I just need wiser heads than mine to advise on a couple of points.

Here's the spec as it stands.

Processor - AMD Athlon FX51
Motherboard - Asus SK8N
Hard Drive 1 - 2 X 74.2 Western Digital WD740GD S-ATA 8MB/10,000 in RAID 0
Hard Drive 2 - 250GB Western Digital 7200RPM
Graphics Card - : 256Mb ATI Radeon 9800 XT
PSU - Nexus NX-4000 Real Silent 400W PSU
Optical - 1 x CDRW/DVD & 1 x Multiformat DVD writer.

Now comes the questions.

1) Dilemma - Should I buy the FX51? Love the idea, but that's a lot of money for a processor.
2) Anyone know of a better motherboard than the SK8N. Heard that it's fair at best, wondering if there was much of an alternative out or about to be released.
3) Any problems/alternatives to that hard drive 1 choice?
4) 9800 XT. Worth the money?
5) Lastly, you'll notice there's no RAM up on the list. That's where I run out of inspiration. I've been looking at either Kingston 2 X KRX3200K2/1G or 2 X Corsair TWINX1024RE-3200LL. Can anyone advise on which is a better set?

Anything I've forgotten, apart from taking out a mortgage on my soul to pay for it all? If anyone can think of something let me know.

Many, many thanks

Ibm

Nice spec :)

If I were you I'd wait for a couple of months (Spring 04) as AMD are releasing a 939-pin FX which takes normal non-ecc ram (The 940-pin FX requires ECC ram- you knew that didn't you?). If you went for that motherboard you would be limited to the older processors in the future (ie, the range out now only).

There should also be new graphics cards from ATi and Nvidia around that time aswell, so the 9800xt will not be as expensive (Not that it seems to be a problem for you :p) or you could go for one of the new cards.

Assuming you were going for the 940-pin FX then, aslong as the ram is ECC (Error correcting-something) then you should be ok. Most people favour Corsair as it overclocks further but you will most likely be limited by the processor for overclocking.

I don't notice a monitor on that list, have you already got one?

Hope that helps,
Luke.

PS. Welcome to the forums :)

HOLY **** :eek:

One nice piece of kit you have there :D
With the ram id go for Kingston, and the only one problem with FX51's is that they *might* be changing the slot type come the new year, so you might have a problem if you ever want to change the motherboard, thats why id push towards a standard Athlon 64 3200, but if youve got the money, GO GET IT! I wish i was that rich :D

Cr4iG

luke313 -- I'd read up about the upcoming pin change on the next FX-5x model, which is one of the hesitations I have about going down that road, and the whole ECC thing is a pain in the backside, but a geek's gotta do...Anyway, if I'm upgrading my processor to something faster anytime in the future, what's an extra £150 for a new motherboard on top of whatever chip I go for is going to cost? 'Hey, there's the new FX-53, just gotta have it. Only £1252 per thousand unit to retailers? Wow, what a bargain...' LOL
Anyways, I've held on for over a month now letting my money burn holes through my legs, and I just can't take it anymore (no, no Scotty jokes please). If you hang around waiting for the next best thing to arrive, you never buy anything.
My monitor is a Iiyama 514 22". Was going flat screen, but couldn't justify the extra grand.
And thanks for the welcome, glad to be here.

Cr4ig -- Holy **** is right. Just the reaction I wanted, very gratifying. As far as pin/slot type change, you came at it from an opposite direction to luke313, and make a very valid point. Hoping that someone will come out with a better motherboard for the FX51 before they change the pin arrangement, and then that will have to do me. You pay your money, you make your choice. Thanks for the advice though.

lol, nice kit

but if you wait for a 940 then u gotta buy EEC ram that costs a bomb more (and not sure if they do top class speed memory for it 2700 is the highest ive ever found)

mind you could get a future proof fx53 machine :|

Yeah, getting hold of that European Economic Community ram is a killer....hehe...

Can ECC RAM only go as high as 2700? I've seen Corsair running at 3200...Do you mean something else? Brand new to the whole RAM issue, know nothing about latency etc.

Sounds like you do have money to burn, but I was just wondering, what would you mainly use this system for?

ECC RAM are being made up to PC3200 specs.

just happened to stumble upon this which explains it all quite nicely :-

http://www.mushkin.com/epages/Mushki...serTemplate/27

and here are some fine RAM modules for you :-

http://www.mushkin.com/epages/Mushki...ct/View/991127

what i'd buy anyway.

ah looks like theyve started makin pc3200 EEC now, but still not nothing better like pc3500 etc :(

pc3200 eec in a large size will burn a hole in your wallet, pocket and probably half way thru your leg :p

Rod911 -- oh, I don't know, mostly Word, browsing the net. Stuff like that. My internet was really slow with the dial up on my laptop, so I'm hoping this rig will speed it up. What do you think?

hehe

Rod911 - Sorry, couldn't resist. Let's see, I'll be doing a lot of digital video capture and encoding, playing around on 3D Studio Max...what else....oh yeah, playing every single game ever released with the settings maxed out LOL. It's got to be done....

big Q what spec rig you got naw

IMO I don't think the FX CPUs are worth it, I'd save a little and get a decent Athlon64 (3200XP), get some proper RAM (doesn't have to be registered). If you hang on till feb then you can get the next gen GFX card and AMDs latest Athlon64, it's most prob more powerful than the FX anyways and ahellava lot cheaper :P

I've been working off a laptop for the last 18 months. It's a lovely machine, but I'm in need of a desktop....The laptop's a Sony GRX 316MP. 16" screen (1600x1200), 1.6 P4, and it was 512Mb RAM before the seat got loose and it's only running 256 *grrrr*. Was a 20GB HD 'till it died, so replaced it with 40. It's been fine for Web Dev and basic image editing, but now it's time for a different beast altogether.

Unreal -- thanks for that, first person to suggest an alternative instead of just drooling - only joking guys. Since you made the suggestion I'm going to have to pump you for more info.

Working around a Athlon64 3200, what would you (or anyone else) suggest for motherboard and RAM, looking at max performance instead of price?
I was thinking of going for the 9800 Pro instead of XT, save the money and go for an upgrade in 6 months, but as you may have noticed, saving money not so high on the priorities at the moment (how beautiful is it to be able to say that ;) ).

Is the Athlon64 pin set going to be a supported product (next model carrying the same number of pins)? Thought that the pin number was going to change for both current models within the next two releases (Fx-53 for the FX and 3400/3600 for the Athlon64). Plus, after buying this system, it's not likely that I'm going to upgrade the processor any time soon....

personally I'd suggest you wait for socket 939...if you don't want to however, and you still stick with fx-51 - I'd recommend the sk8v over the sk8n.

Byatt --
Can't....wait.....Need....computer...NOW!!!....Crush....Smash....

As I was saying before, I've already waited over a month, and then I'll wait another month, and there'll be some problem with release and it'll be March before I get it. By which time I'll be wearing potato sacks over my head and saying 'wibble' a lot...

Do you know if the SK8N is limited to 2700 ECC ram? Is the SK8V the same?

I see that no-one has suggest the 3.2 P4 Extremely Expensive edition, any particular reason, apart from the whole 'sell your first child to pay for it thing'?

both the sk8n and the sk8v can handle pc3200.

A few other considerations:

1. What case is this going in?
2. Soundcard?
3. Is that 400W PSU going to be enough? Usually I'd be damn certain but this is a beast of a system - the fx-51 eats a lot of juice, as does a 9800XT, and if you get some audigy 2 platinum style soundcard you might be pushing it.

OK - I would recommend the ASUS K8V-Deluxe for stability although RAW performance you'll get the best out of the top MSI K8 board! 400Watt is plenty - you'd be suprised!

If your doing CAD etc. is a really good soundcard really worth it, lol!

The Athlon64 will be keeping the same socket for at least 4000XP. Not so sure about the FX series, TBH I think there not worth the price as the Athlon64s are beasts and like 1/4 of the price!

RAM - If you went Athlon64 you got a massive choice, personally I'd get something like PC3500 Corsair XMS LL ... no point going higher as the Athlon64s just don't allow for FSB rasing, you overclock 100Mhz and you have an FX51!

IMO - unless you need a pc that powerful (and very fe people do), then i think its overkill.

you'll have more heat, more noise and less stability than a slower 'puter.

and don't think its an investment or that "it will last."

If you have enough cash to burn then be my guest. but IMO i would spend the money on something better (e.g. a couple of big LCDs or my girlfriend...)

dgr

First thing i would say is DAMN. THat entire setup is going to cost your somewhere around 2.5-3k($). Like alot of the people were sayin, i would wait for the next socket for the FX, so you could upgrade it. THe 9800XT, is an awsome card and will run all games pretty much at max, and hey, you get a free game(not really free) so you could kinda take $50 off the price cause it comes with HL2. Also if you wait till spring you may be able to spend your money on ATI's and Nvidia's next series of cards, which will probably be much more DX9 compatible and will be the same price as the expensive ones now, but wiht much better performance(hopefully they can make the same kind of jump as from the 8500 to the 9700). The RAM, i would go with Corsair either way, if you go wiht the next socket get some 3500LL or possibly some 4000(it may be alot more mature by the time the next socket launches). For the motherboard, i favor anything wiht the Nforce3 onboard.

my personal recommendation would be :-

Socket 754 Athlon64 3000xp @ £175
MSI K8T Neo @ £110
Mushkin lvl2 pc3200 @ £250

that's approx £550 less than your suggested spec, and will be only very marginally slower, if for some reason that's not fast enough for you, and if you really want to make that £550 work it's hardest then invest it in a Mach2 Prometia http://www.cpucitystore.co.uk/catalo...products_id=38 along with some faster memory, you'll defintely get a whole lot more performance out of that than you will do investing into the extra inflated cost of server based technology and of a top of the line cpu.

dgr -- Quite right, I DON'T need a computer this powerful, and you're right, it will indeed be hotter, noisier and less stable than a slower system, but that's not really the point. Hasn't everyone in this forum spent a lot of time thinking about an ultimate system? And it's not an investment....since when was anything to do with computers ever going to last more than 12-24 months?

And although the cash isn't quite ready to burn, I've got a lovely LCD and Plasma, and the wife is quite capable of spending far too much money on her own LOL

Payniel - Only 2.5-3K in US dollars? Where do you shop? It's almost going to cost that in GBP, and given the crappy US economy at the moment, that's a lot more in $.

I have to say that everyone saying I should wait for the next socket FX is starting to make me lean that way, but it's going to cost a whole lot more I'm thinking - or should that be thunking to be truly 64bit? I don't suppose you've got a link or two to news on the upcoming GFX cards from ATI and Nvidia? Much appreciation if you do...

Fondie -- Cheers, I'll look into that spec....

Payniel -- Sorry if you're an American and that economy comment seemed a bit harsh...I imagine there's enough UK/US feuds going on in these forums without me starting any more....:P

just as a sidenote, if you did go for some serious cooling and overclocking action, the MSI Neo might not be the best board available, it could be, i just haven't really looked into it.

and my rambling thoughts :-

i really think just a standard system (no prometia) with the componenets i suggested would be more than adequate though, if you relly do have money burning a hole in your pocket then another monitor for dual display? nice sound card for hooking up to your audio kit? or a whole host of other things you could have that at least for me would add much more to my pc experience (what a sickening phrase) than the slight increase in speed of what will already be a very fast pc.

obviously everyone gets their kicks from different things, and i've got my very own desire for the fastest components you can buy, but after the inital couple of weeks of you having the top of the line cpu, and the feeling you get from that, that 5% (completely made up figure btw) extra speed you get is barely noticable in real world applications and prehaps some (possibly) slightly less exciting, yet more pratical things become increasingly more desirable.

and no i'm not a sensible old grandad, i just like to get the most kicks from my £s, and of course you're not me, so there :)

If we're seriously looking at overclocking for any fx-51 or athlon 64...is there actually a board yet that locks agp and pci frequencies?

I'll just add that I'm glad you're keeping your nice Iiyama 22" CRT instead of buying an inferior TFT :D

And that's a hell of a system!
Sod it, why wait?! The rate the computer industry moves, no one is ever content. It's a case of "wait till next month". Then another month, and so it goes on.

my opinion:
gfx cards make lot more difference than cpu in games - as they do nearly everything. gemertry, textures rendering etc..
currently im runnign the spec in my sig. considering the total cost of that, and the total cost of your spec you want, yours will be several times higher £££ for not THAT much more improvement.
also i agree with fondie - with good cooling instead of top of the line chips you can get better performace, though i disagree about cpu - promietas aint THAT good. for my cpu i got alomst same clocks with an slk800 as i do with water cooling, temps are lot lower though. better cooling doesnt allow you to clock further (unless your chip is overheating). all it gives you is ability to run stuff at higher voltage - which will give better stability at higher clocks - though too high and you risk electromigration and killing the chip.

for gfx card i would go for the 9800xt (whats price differnce between the pro?). the core on each card will be just as capable - but the 9800xt has the better mem and you will be able to clock a lot further with it. i wish i spent £20 more on a 9700pro now, as they all had samsung ram mostly capable of 350-380mhz with vmods.

what games do you intend to play? all the games ive tryed, doom3 alpha inc, i get avout 50fps all the time, mostly about 70fps with all options maxed (doom3 about 50fps). max payne2 and il2fb (forgot when that was released) are the only 2 recent games ive played both run fine at max. in 3dm2k1 i get 17.5k, 2k3 i get 6.2k. so whats the point in having anything faster at the moment?

Quote:

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Originally posted by |SilentDeath|
so whats the point in having anything faster at the moment?

---

I think I've got the idea if I say:

--for the sake of having them.

i agree with Silentdeath ^ :)

i suggested a prometia because for the money (which you seem keen to spend) i'm sure you could squeeze more performance using it than you could with an FX-51 over an A64, not that it was going to give great performance/£.

if i had to spend the extra money on your pc i'd spend it on such things as, a second display, nice case, sound card, keyboard/mouse, nice zalman cooler or something ok that ilk.

and i agree about gfx cards ^^

(Just typed a reply, took a call, login timed out, post all gone *grrrr*)

So, in brief...

Fondie -- no room on desk for 'nother 22" CRT and TFT running at 1600X1200 are £1K+. 7.1 sound system, audiophile I ain't. Agree on speed to cost ratio point, 'nother reason for downgrading to Athlon64 3200.
Lament the fact I'm not you, but playing dealt hand.

Howard -- refreshing change from naysayers, you product of the Nike ('Just Do It') revolution....just after I decide to change to a lower spec system. Damn You!! :P.
*strokes monitor* nice Iiyama....nice Iiyama...

Silent -- main reason for Athlon64 is the 64bit issue -- as and when upgrading OS -- rather than speed (although nice bonus). Games to play...anything DX 9, would love Doom III alpha, but will wait like rest of plebs for retail...Half Life 2 would be lovely, but I don't think it's ever coming out ;)

Fondie -- one for you http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=get...106&howtoID=41

ibm - though my heart says i want one, my brain (it's definately right this time) tells me otherwise :)

i wouldn't lament the fact you're not me until you know me better, then you can :) (or not).

it's just easy to get caught up in the excitement of building the fastest thing you can without stepping back and looking to see whether that's what you really want, of course that might be exactly what you want to do, and by all means go for it :) just thought i'd give a different perspective, as that's really what this thread is about i guess :)

oh, and you don't need to be an audophile to appreciate some awesome sound, though i still haven't worked out where i could sensibly have my pc in a decent position in relation to my audio kit.

IBM--*YOU BASTARD ENGLISH*(JK) Yes, only around 3k. As to the economy comment , actually its quite ok now, very well.

Alright, thinking of getting the Athlon64 3200...back to the RAM issue...since I'm not limited to ECC, and am thinking of the Chaintech Athlon 64 (ZNF3-150 ZENITH) mobo, does anyone know some nice RAM?

Was looking at the Corsair XMS3700, but can I ask if anyone knows if the my system is going to be able to make use of such memory? Any bottlenecks anyone can think of?

I'd not get the Chaintech one ...

ASUS K8V-Deluxe for great stability (I have one - so this is from experience)
MSI K8 board - raw performance you get a little more from that than the other boards!

I run Corsair XMS3700 in that ASUS K8V-D board with no problems ... but its a waste of time the amount of FSB you can add to the CPU - just get PC3500 for the extra tweaking and your done!

I personally don't think the Athlon64 /FX based systems have matured enough yet. Give it some time to allow some real motherboards and chipsets to surface.