Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 30

Thread: lapped my ultra-120 extreme (pics and temp results)

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    160
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    4 times in 4 posts
    • graysky's system
      • Motherboard:
      • DFI LT P35-T2R
      • CPU:
      • X3360 @ 8.5x400 (vcc=1.12500V)
      • Memory:
      • 2x2 Gb/Corsair Dominator DDR2-1066 (TWIN2X4096-8500C5DF) @ 5-5-5-15 @ 960 MHz (5:6)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • 8800 GTS 512
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX-620
      • Case:
      • Antec P182
      • Operating System:
      • Debian

    lapped my ultra-120 extreme (pics and temp results)

    When my Ultra-120 X and I have to say I'm a little puzzled. The base where it should contact the heat spreader is not smooth at all, it's actually grooved! You can see a scratch which is where I gently ran my thumb nail over the surface; I could feel the rough edges.

    Have a look for yourself:


    Anyway, others encouraged me to lap it which I've never done before. After wrestling with the idea for a couple of days as well as reading many articles/guides, I decided to give it a go. $20 worth of sandpaper, a $2 piece of flat glass, and 4 hours of careful work (and sweat) later, I was left with a pretty darn flat HS. You can see by the pictures that this particular one was quite concave instead of being flat which isn't good for keeping contact between the HS and IHS of the CPU.





    Did it work you're probably wondering. The temp data as measured in speedfan.exe for a ~1 h x264 encode (uses all 4 cores with a CPU load of >99 %). I had speedfan log the temps (which it does every 3-4 seconds) and I averaged the whole data set per core for the 2nd pass of the 2-pass encode (the 2nd pass is the most CPU intensive). Room temp for both experiments was ~23 °C. By the way, I added a constant of 15 to each core in speedfan since it incorrectly displays temps for quads by 15 °C.

    System specs: Q6600 @ 9x333=3.01 GHz (stock voltage), P5B-Deluxe in an Antec p182 case.

    Code:
    Before lapping the HS:
    
    Core 0: 66.9
    Core 1: 66.4
    Core 2: 60.6
    Core 3: 60.6
    
    After lapping the HS:
    
    Core 0: 64.9
    Core 1: 64.4
    Core 2: 59.0
    Core 3: 59.4
    
    Delta:
    
    Core 0: 2.0
    Core 1: 2.0
    Core 2: 1.6
    Core 3: 1.2
    Last edited by graysky; 03-06-2007 at 12:04 PM.
    http://encoding.n3.net <--- for all your DVD and audio CD backup needs!


  2. #2
    radix lecti dave87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    12,806
    Thanks
    657
    Thanked
    931 times in 634 posts
    • dave87's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus
      • CPU:
      • i5 3470k under Corsair H80 WC
      • Memory:
      • 8gb DDR3
      • Storage:
      • 240gb SSD + 120gb SSD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus HD7950
      • PSU:
      • XFX 600w Modular
      • Case:
      • Lian Li PC-A05FNB + Acoustipack
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • 2x Dell S2309W (1920x1080)
      • Internet:
      • BT Infinity Option 2
    Not bad at all.

    If you had the time and inclination you could probably go to 2000 grit, and lap the CPU core, both of which should give you another couple of degrees drop in temperature

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    125
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked
    1 time in 1 post
    There was a discussion paper written (that handily enough I can't now find) but the gist of it was that if you had good TIM and a micro-grooved heatsink then you could increase the available area for heat transmission by a significant amount if the TIM could be made to be forced into the grooves. Given that Thermalright are pretty good at these CPU coolers, I find it hard to believe they would leave the base of $65 cooler unfinished like that unintentionally. When mine arrives I'm going to give it a month to let the TIM set properly and then see how it compares.

    Interesting post though.
    Last edited by wja96; 08-05-2007 at 03:08 PM.

  4. #4
    Pedandic mo-fo IAmATeaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    South of the Watford Gap!
    Posts
    902
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    13 times in 13 posts
    • IAmATeaf's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P5Q Deluxe
      • CPU:
      • Q6600@3.25
      • Memory:
      • 4 x 2GB Corsair 6400C5DHX XMS2
      • Storage:
      • 2 x 0.5TB 7200.12, 2 x 1.5TB 7200.11
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte GTX460 OC
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX520
      • Case:
      • Lian Li PC6089B
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 Pro x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Samsung T240 24"
      • Internet:
      • 6Mb ADSL Max
    Not exactly the drops I'd thought you'd get but 1 or 2 degrees can't be sniffed at really, could mean the diff between stability or not at overclock.

    I see you're in the states and the Extreme version is out there, waiting for it to hit the UK shores myself

  5. #5
    Senior Member Andy3536's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    2,355
    Thanks
    164
    Thanked
    194 times in 135 posts
    • Andy3536's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte GA-880GMA
      • CPU:
      • AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 95w @3.8
      • Memory:
      • 4GB Corsair XMS3 1600MHz
      • Storage:
      • 1T WD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • ATI 4870
      • PSU:
      • Corsair 750
      • Case:
      • Antec P-182
    I work in electronics and with components the piont of having a rough surface is that it creats a larger surface area with the thermal compound and will give you better cooling as the paste gets in to the small indentations. This is why they are supplied with a rough bottom.

  6. #6
    Señor Member Flewis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Sutton, Surrey
    Posts
    765
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked
    27 times in 24 posts
    • Flewis's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI P45 Platinum
      • CPU:
      • Intel E7200 @ 3.5GHz
      • Memory:
      • 4x1GB Corsair PC5400 @ 720MHz 4-4-4-11
      • Storage:
      • 2 x Samsung Spinpoint 500GB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • 2 x ATI HD4850
      • PSU:
      • 750W Silverstone Zeus
      • Case:
      • AOpen H700B custom watercooled
      • Operating System:
      • Vista HP x64
      • Internet:
      • Plusnet fibre
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy3536 View Post
    I work in electronics and with components the piont of having a rough surface is that it creats a larger surface area with the thermal compound and will give you better cooling as the paste gets in to the small indentations. This is why they are supplied with a rough bottom.
    But it would seem better temps are achieved with a smoother base. Thermal paste is actually an insulator, maybe thats got something to do with it.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Andy3536's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    2,355
    Thanks
    164
    Thanked
    194 times in 135 posts
    • Andy3536's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte GA-880GMA
      • CPU:
      • AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 95w @3.8
      • Memory:
      • 4GB Corsair XMS3 1600MHz
      • Storage:
      • 1T WD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • ATI 4870
      • PSU:
      • Corsair 750
      • Case:
      • Antec P-182
    Thermal paste is highly conductive, ok it doesn'y match the properties of metals but you would be wrong to think it's an insulator.
    In this case it's most likley that the better results were due to the fact that the nickle plate had been removed and the thermal paste was applied to the copper, which is a far better conductor than nikel. It also is'nt a completey flat surface, that last picture clearly shows fine scratches through the copper (although certainly smoother than before)

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    160
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    4 times in 4 posts
    • graysky's system
      • Motherboard:
      • DFI LT P35-T2R
      • CPU:
      • X3360 @ 8.5x400 (vcc=1.12500V)
      • Memory:
      • 2x2 Gb/Corsair Dominator DDR2-1066 (TWIN2X4096-8500C5DF) @ 5-5-5-15 @ 960 MHz (5:6)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • 8800 GTS 512
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX-620
      • Case:
      • Antec P182
      • Operating System:
      • Debian
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy3536 View Post
    I work in electronics and with components the piont of having a rough surface is that it creats a larger surface area with the thermal compound and will give you better cooling as the paste gets in to the small indentations. This is why they are supplied with a rough bottom.
    Maybe, but how can you explain the temp decrease I got when I lapped it? I also lapped the IHS on my Q6600 and saw some major decreases in temp. I think what your argument about surface area does make sense, but the data would say otherwise -- at least in my system.
    http://encoding.n3.net <--- for all your DVD and audio CD backup needs!


  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    679
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked
    43 times in 43 posts
    What did you use the glass for?

  10. #10
    HEXUS.social member Agent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Internet
    Posts
    19,159
    Thanks
    733
    Thanked
    1,605 times in 1,044 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy3536 View Post
    Thermal paste is highly conductive,
    Sorry, but most thermal paste is non conductive, hence why the quite happily splash it everywhere on motherboards and don't worry about in

    In the case of something like AS5, its slightly capacitive, but not conductive.
    Last edited by Agent; 04-06-2007 at 10:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

  11. #11
    HEXUS.social member Agent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Internet
    Posts
    19,159
    Thanks
    733
    Thanked
    1,605 times in 1,044 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mrt9888 View Post
    What did you use the glass for?
    Glass / Mirrors are one of the flattest surfaces you can get cheaply
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

  12. #12
    Señor Member Flewis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Sutton, Surrey
    Posts
    765
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked
    27 times in 24 posts
    • Flewis's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI P45 Platinum
      • CPU:
      • Intel E7200 @ 3.5GHz
      • Memory:
      • 4x1GB Corsair PC5400 @ 720MHz 4-4-4-11
      • Storage:
      • 2 x Samsung Spinpoint 500GB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • 2 x ATI HD4850
      • PSU:
      • 750W Silverstone Zeus
      • Case:
      • AOpen H700B custom watercooled
      • Operating System:
      • Vista HP x64
      • Internet:
      • Plusnet fibre
    we were talking thermal properties not electronic

  13. #13
    HEXUS.social member Agent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Internet
    Posts
    19,159
    Thanks
    733
    Thanked
    1,605 times in 1,044 posts
    Doh - Must read closer next time

    Apologies
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Andy3536's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    2,355
    Thanks
    164
    Thanked
    194 times in 135 posts
    • Andy3536's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte GA-880GMA
      • CPU:
      • AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 95w @3.8
      • Memory:
      • 4GB Corsair XMS3 1600MHz
      • Storage:
      • 1T WD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • ATI 4870
      • PSU:
      • Corsair 750
      • Case:
      • Antec P-182
    Quote Originally Posted by graysky View Post
    Maybe, but how can you explain the temp decrease I got when I lapped it? I also lapped the IHS on my Q6600 and saw some major decreases in temp. I think what your argument about surface area does make sense, but the data would say otherwise -- at least in my system.
    I belive i answered that in my second post.
    If you look at your processor in the link, wouldn't you say thats a rough surface?
    Was taking thermal properties with the thermal paste, the majority are silicone based and will not conduct electricity but the better ones are normaly electricly conductive aswell.
    Last edited by Andy3536; 04-06-2007 at 10:39 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    West Wales
    Posts
    484
    Thanks
    30
    Thanked
    18 times in 16 posts
    • Phil_P's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte P35-DS4
      • CPU:
      • Q6600 G0
      • Memory:
      • 4x1GB Crucial
      • Storage:
      • 2 x WD 1TB in RAID1
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte 7600GS
      • PSU:
      • Etasis 750W
      • Operating System:
      • RHEL5/RHEL6
      • Monitor(s):
      • Samsung 226BW 22" panel
      • Internet:
      • F2S 8mbit
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy3536 View Post
    I work in electronics and with components the piont of having a rough surface is that it creats a larger surface area with the thermal compound and will give you better cooling as the paste gets in to the small indentations. This is why they are supplied with a rough bottom.
    Sorry Andy, but I disagree.

    Sure there is a larger surface area on a rough surface, but when two surfaces mate (as in this case), far less of that surface area is in contact.

    Consider the following crude schematic:

    Heatsink
    \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
    /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
    Processor

    and for two flat surfaces

    Heatsink
    ======
    Processor

    Which has a larger contact area?

    The two surfaces should be as flat as possible. In an ideal world they'd both be totally flat and thermal paste wouldn't be needed. However, that's very rarely going to be likely, so we apply a small amount of thermal paste to try and fill some of the voids and thus allow thermal transfer - if the voids were left empty (air), there would be far less thermal transfer.

    Your comments above would only hold true if thermal paste was a better thermal conductor than the metal surfaces of the two contact objects, but I highly doubt this is the case.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Andy3536's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    2,355
    Thanks
    164
    Thanked
    194 times in 135 posts
    • Andy3536's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte GA-880GMA
      • CPU:
      • AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 95w @3.8
      • Memory:
      • 4GB Corsair XMS3 1600MHz
      • Storage:
      • 1T WD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • ATI 4870
      • PSU:
      • Corsair 750
      • Case:
      • Antec P-182
    We are not talking large gouges out of the metal work, we are talking 2 surfaces minorly 'roughed up'
    This is how i was taught at collage to mount power amplifing transistors! The thermal paste also has somthing to stick to so that when you place the heatsink in possition the paste doesn't all sqeeze out the side.
    And your 2 nice diagrams, you would need to ask yourself which one would have the higher surface area if you filled them with a good thermal paste.
    Last edited by Andy3536; 04-06-2007 at 11:33 PM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •