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About LinkBacksDoesnt matter what order, as has been said, it should stay a pretty constant temp all the way round. So long as you have the res as high as possible, and ideally immediately before the pump just choose the way that is neatest/uses least hose.
Doesnt matter what order, as has been said, it should stay a pretty constant temp all the way round. So long as you have the res as high as possible, and ideally immediately before the pump just choose the way that is neatest/uses least hose.
lol, yeah that's what I thought you meantOriginally Posted by [Grevane]
as others have said keep it simple and do a single loop - also if the NB already has a heatpipe on it I'm not sure why you'd want to add it to your WC loop, you're just adding heat and making the pipe run more complicated. For comparison, I have an Opteron 170@2.6G and a X1950XT in a closed loop and run at about 40degC idle/47degC load atm (10 degC lower during the winter)
No, I wasn't going to on mine... it was more in respect to making the discussion kinda "general" for anyone who wanted to. I have (when it gets replaced and/or fixed) the P5B Premium VE and it has a nice additional fan you only use IF you use a WC setup.lol, yeah that's what I thought you meant
Careful if you go for that stuff, It has odd sized barbs on it, so would probably be better off on its own small loop, or with other smaller things like the NB.
You owe it to yourself to click here really.
Yeah, I had been thinking about the "split" circuit but with all the advice and comments people have contributed to this thread I'm definitely thinking about putting 2 seperate circuits in. Maybe I am being overly "protective" of ,y GX card, but with the ever increasing demands being put on them and the ever increasing heat therefore generated etc... I'm just a little concerned about the system (coolant) being hotter than it need be when it hits the GPU. I'm sure this probably isn't a "huge" factor, but I suppose my thinking is more towards getting the best cooling possible for the GPU (more so than the CPU/RAM etc...) due to the huge amount of work GPU's do nowadays. And I don't mind complicating the assembly of the case/wc system, thats part of the fun of building PC's... each new challenge, but I would certainly not be overly happy sacrificing potential cooling on my GPU for a slightly simpler build. And I certainly wouldn't want the OC'ing of my GX card to be limited by HEAT rather than the actual potential performance of the card.
Obviously, since we've all been discussing this topic (and very interesting it has been as well might I add), I'm still definitely thinking along the lines of a dual circuit but with everyones input, I think i will construct a dual "seperate" circuit setup rather than a dual "split" circuit. As regards the RAM, i do really like the idea of that RAM for two/three reasons.
The first being the obvious cooling of the RAM when OC'd (saves additional fans) but also because potentially it should protect hte RAM from heat radiated from other components which imho is probably MORE of an issue in WC PC's since there are more pipes/obstructions and probably a slower throughput of air than a normal air cooled PC. And since you can use it without watercooling as well because of the well designed aluminium fins, it seems like a good investment longterm for a WC project... if that makes sense...
Since you'll be investing in a new case anyway if you want two loops, i reckon youll be much better off with one 3x120 rad than two smaller ones. I would imagine youd struggle to find something that will fit two decent sized rads, and imo a 1x120 is too small to use on anything.
What's wrong with things like Clunk suggested way back (not sure if its in this thread or not) but things like heat exchangers (even the drive bay mounted ones nowadays) or dual output pumps etc...
There surely has to be "more than one way of skinning a cat"... I had no intention of trying to squeeze 2 of "everything" into my case? 2 pumps, 2 resevoirs, 2 radioators etc... that seems a massive overkill...
Sorry, when you said seperate loops i assumed thats what you meant. To get any real benefit out of doing it though i imagine youd need 2 radiators and 2 pumps at the least. You could go for something like the laing ddc with inbuilt res on this page:
http://www.coolercases.co.uk/acatalog/Pump.html
If youre only going to connect them anywhere each loop will eventually end up the same temp anyway, as it'll all get mixed somewhere. And if youre only planning on using 1 rad, then heats only leaving the system at the same rate anyway. To be honest, if you mainly want to keep the gpu cool, why not just cool that (id reccomend a cooler that covers the ram though, mine get incredibly hot), you can get excellent overclocks nearly silently using something like a scythe ninja anyway.
No worries mate, sorry it might have been my explaination of it.
Essentially, I am going to try and find a solution which will enable me to have the GPU and CPU on a seperate circuit... I saw quite a neat heat exchanger the other day (can't find the link for the life of me now) that fit nicely into a 5 1/4 bay... It was an interesting option... kinda food for thought if you get my meaning...
I was planning RAM wise to put the OCZ Flex XLC RAM on the same circuit as the CPU (before the CPU)... and am basically now just searching around for the various options (or alternatives if you want to think aobut it like that) to putting a "full" secondary loop in... for the obvious space reasons...
Maybe I should've explained that this is more a long term upgrade plan... call it experiment if you like... I'll reassemble my PC with a standard loop as suggested... once ASUS actually ackowledge they have a responsiblity to answer my support requests - it's been a week now of trying to get hold of them by phone or website and all I get is useless unhelpful and occassional replies. I'm really almost getting to the point where I am going to have to take ASUS's lack of response up with someone like the European Consumer Centre because I personally feel it is totally unacceptable to log a Suppport Request with them when their website specifically says if they don't respond in 48hrs it will be escelated to priority 1, and all they do to get round this is have "secretarys" answer the support requests saying things like "sorry to hear you have a problem, I'll pass this onto the relavent person who will get back to you..." except they never do...
I'm sure next week will pass just as this week has pass. God i wish I knew someone in the IT press business... I've explained I live in the UK and they even said they will pass my details onto their UK collegues yet when I rang ASUS UK to complain, the UK office told me (a) they knew nothing about it and (b) they dont' have a motherboard department in the UK anyway. Arghhhh!! How wrong was I when I bought ASUS expecting a good service in the unfortunate event of somethign going wrong... Gutted... Totally gutted...
Last edited by [Grevane]; 22-06-2007 at 09:16 PM.
oh Herulach, nice link... just been reading it while eating... that Eheim 1250 Pump (Pump Output: 1200 LPM) is a little on the "weak" side eh?heh hehe
I think you are missing the point here mate
If you do it all on one loop, you need a good pump, and maybe two large rads, and maybe fairly powerful fans to go with the rads. Doing it like that will not require you to use two pumps, but you may need an extra rad.
You can do like I did, and have the CPU on its own loop, and put the rest on another loop (GPU and NB in my case).
As I said earlier in the thread, you really need to calculate your entire heatload, then buy parts that will dissipate that much heat, or more, otherwise, you will end up with temps that are similar or worse to air cooling.
For my second loop, I picked up one of those D-tek pumps, they are pretty small, and relatively cheap, compared to most (around £30). It is absolutely silent (to my ears), and is perfect for my GPU and NB. The barbs are removable and you could fit some that match the OCZ ram.
If you start faffing around with 5.25 bay heat exchangers, you'll just end up with an underperforming system. The money that you spend on that, would be better put towards a decent couple of rads.
If you dont have the room inside the case, consider mounting a rad externally (even a triple) on the rear 120mm fan holes, using a radbox or a hollowed out 120mm fan..
You owe it to yourself to click here really.
Just bouncing idea's around, how about, for example, in respect to the space taken up with 2 rads, one rad designed for 2x 120mm fans and something like this for say the CPU side assuming the heat output is lower on the CPU than the GPU...I think you are missing the point here mate
If you do it all on one loop, you need a good pump, and maybe two large rads, and maybe fairly powerful fans to go with the rads. Doing it like that will not require you to use two pumps, but you may need an extra rad.
You can do like I did, and have the CPU on its own loop, and put the rest on another loop (GPU and NB in my case).
As I said earlier in the thread, you really need to calculate your entire heatload, then buy parts that will dissipate that much heat, or more, otherwise, you will end up with temps that are similar or worse to air cooling.
For my second loop, I picked up one of those D-tek pumps, they are pretty small, and relatively cheap, compared to most (around £30). It is absolutely silent (to my ears), and is perfect for my GPU and NB. The barbs are removable and you could fit some that match the OCZ ram.
If you start faffing around with 5.25 bay heat exchangers, you'll just end up with an underperforming system. The money that you spend on that, would be better put towards a decent couple of rads.
If you dont have the room inside the case, consider mounting a rad externally (even a triple) on the rear 120mm fan holes, using a radbox or a hollowed out 120mm fan..
http://www.xoxide.com/thermaltake-aq...-radiator.html
[Are there really no justification for things like those? Or are they really only useful as a 2nd additional rad in a single loop for example? Or maybe as an alternative to using two loops, have you ever heard of anyone say using one of those heat exchangers between CPU and GPU so a little cooling is done before the coolant gets to the GPU... Sorry, literally thinking as I'm eating... and each bit of info you guys throw in sparks a new line of thought...]
My case already has 5 fans in it and very good airflow... not particularly bothered about noise particularly... worked in too many noisey comms rooms over the years and kinda immune to PC "buzz" now..
(Edited Italic bit...)
Regarding the "calculations"... would you... *ahem* ... have any of those special "links" you normally carry around
[btw, i don't doubt at all any of what you are all saying, just incase it seems that way... I'm just genuinely interested and find all this conversation genuinely interesting and very enjoyable]
Last edited by [Grevane]; 22-06-2007 at 09:48 PM. Reason: addition of another thought...
If noise isnt a problem, then you can get away with less radiators...not "lesser" radiators, just less of the good ones.
Look at this Thermochill graph, this is for a 120.2, and it tells you how much heat it can dissipate with 3 different types of fan at 7v and 12v, at a given flowrate.
As you can see, wattage dissipated is the Y axis, so go here and find out the wattage of your CPU (overclocked if needed), and your GPU (overclocked if needed), and for the chipset, you'll have to guess, I would say up to 50w is a fair assumption for a 965/P35 board, and higher for a 680i board.
Find out the type of fans you require, and work out from the graph, if that radiator is enough for your heatload.
You can find the full list of Radiators and their performance figures here.
You owe it to yourself to click here really.
Ahhh... brilliant stuff Clunk. Thank you very much (again!).
Yeah noise isn't a problem really for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, the reason i mentioned about comms rooms. Once you've spent an extended amount of time in a comms room with 40+ server and huge air con units blasting away, the "buzz" from a PC hardly seems noticeable. I currently have 3x 120mm fans and 2x 90mm (i think) fans in my PC and I only notice it when I switch it off (and I'm sat no more than 1metre away from it)... i.e. I notice the quiet more than the noise
And secondly, when I'm gaming so to speak, I normally play with head phones on anyway, for the immersiveness and in MMO's, for the immersiveness AND the additional use of TeamSpeak...
I'll have a look at those links and see what I can work out.
Regarding that other "idea"... with a good airflow through the case, do you think a drive bay heat exchanger theoretically "might" be a possible idea if it was sat between the CPU and GPU and was just there as an addtional "mini-rad" so to speak...? Just to help drop the temp of the coolant before going to the GPU?
The water temp in the loop stays pretty much constant all the way round as it moves so fast, so really, it wouldnt matter where you put it, the results would be very similar.
You owe it to yourself to click here really.
Ah so, its possible, I could use one of those as an additional source of cooling BUT it wouldn't particularly matter where in the loop i put it as it just contribute to the overall lowering of said loop due to the speed of the liquid travelling round the system... Makes sense I suppose.
I used to be an organic chemist before I moved into an IT career (turned a hobby into a job so to speak) so I have reasonable understanding (well except for baring in mind, its been a LONG time since I was studying) of thermodynamics but its just more a matter of getting up to speed on things in relation to PC's... And I like asking alot of questions, its one of the best ways I find I learn from... Learning "hands on" and by firing questions at people who already know are just from experience the 2 best and fastest ways for me to learn more detail about topics I only have a basic knowledge of... I'm sure you'll get used to my "questions"...
Anyway, thanks again for all the info and thanks for having the patience to answer all my questions.
I'll let you get back to having an evening Clunk.
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