It's finally time to build a new PC...three of them!

[RedButton]

If you aren't gonna be moving the PC much, and can stomach it, why not seal the case and fill it with oil. I've heard it works a treat (No fans, obviously) and as it's non-conductive, no short circuit nightmares! Just drain it whenever you want to do something to the PC's guts, and make sure there are at least some heatpipes in the oil, going to heatsinks above the surface.

tomshardware.com/2006/01/09/strip_out_the_fans/

[staffsMike]

If you aren't gonna be moving the PC much, and can stomach it, why not seal the case and fill it with oil. I've heard it works a treat (No fans, obviously) and as it's non-conductive, no short circuit nightmares! Just drain it whenever you want to do something to the PC's guts, and make sure there are at least some heatpipes in the oil, going to heatsinks above the surface.

tomshardware.com/2006/01/09/strip_out_the_fans/

[Biscuit]

If you aren't gonna be moving the PC much, and can stomach it, why not seal the case and fill it with oil. I've heard it works a treat (No fans, obviously) and as it's non-conductive, no short circuit nightmares! Just drain it whenever you want to do something to the PC's guts, and make sure there are at least some heatpipes in the oil, going to heatsinks above the surface.

tomshardware.com/2006/01/09/strip_out_the_fans/

LMAO what mental piece of advice!

ok so it works... but is it really a sensible & practical thing to do?

Award for most random first post goes tooooooo

[mroz]

If you aren't gonna be moving the PC much, and can stomach it, why not seal the case and fill it with oil. I've heard it works a treat (No fans, obviously) and as it's non-conductive, no short circuit nightmares! Just drain it whenever you want to do something to the PC's guts, and make sure there are at least some heatpipes in the oil, going to heatsinks above the surface.

tomshardware.com/2006/01/09/strip_out_the_fans/

This one from puget is a little more practical but still a bit too out there for a general build.

One problem with the tomshardware approach is sealing the case; another is that the oil needs changing frequently as it goes rancid. Lastly, I didn't read the full article but did TH closely monitor temps when under load 24/7? One observation in the puget example is that there's a slow but consistent build up of heat; oh & I think they kept the fans in (worried me, but the oil they use is less viscous; then again I'd still expect fan life to be massively reduced either way).

It stands to reason, however heat flow is altered, it still has to go somewhere; unless it can leak out the case walls you'll have a problem eventually. Personally I'd be inclined to fit a huge radiator & pump the oil through it & round the case.

As to it being silent, that's only if it has no drives which are going to have to be external anyway; picky but then I am. If it wasn't for that I'd fancy giving this a go, though not with expensive hardware. Especially if it was possible to add something to the oil to help visualise the flow.

[Parm]

I've done a bit of thinking and came to the conclusion that the best way to make my decision is to put together two specs; one for a mid-range HTPC and one for a high-end HTPC. By putting the two side by side, I can see clearly the difference in price and then see which one I want to go for.

I've done both specs and they can be viewed by clicking here.

What do you think of the two? Now that I've got them both side by side, the mid-range looks to be more favourable. It's quite a difference in price and the mid-range is still a very nice spec (I think!).

Which of the two builds would you go for, and which (if any) changes would you make?

Though I've done both specs, they're what I would call a rough copy as I have these questions:

• The Antec Fusion case for the mid-range PC comes with a 430W PSU, will that be enough? Is it a good PSU or should I swap it out with something quieter?
• The Antec Fusion case only takes mATX motherboards. I've picked out the Asus P5K-VM iG33 but I'm not sure if it's any good. It does seem to be one of the latest but it has onboard VGA, I can't find one without? Are there any real disadvantages to an mATX as opposed to a normal ATX board?
• RAM - I've picked out some RAM but to be completely honest, they're just guesses! I've always used Corsair in the past and they've always been good so I'm happy to stick with them. I've no idea about CAS Timings though so I'm not sure if the RAM I've picked out is right.
• Graphics Card - In the Mid Range HTPC, I've chosen a fanless MSI card. Good idea or not? The quietness is obviously a bonus, but is it likely to heat the whole case more without a fan? I would like to play an occasional game every now and then so maybe it's better to have a card with a quiet cooler? I'm not sure...
• TV TUNER! This is where I'm really in a pickle. I've never had one before and know nothing about them. Having had a look around online, it's a complete maze, there's loads of them and it would appear that not a whole lot work with Vista? I'd want a TV Card that allows me to connect my aerial and get all the freeview channels allowing me to record a channel or two whilst watching another. Is that about right? Having never used one, I'm not even sure what I should expect it to do!

[mroz]

Just a quick comment - are you sure both the hsfs chosen will fit in the respective cases?

You can get Geil Ultra DDR2 2x1GiB, 4-4-4-12 for Nearly £20 less than the Corsair.

uATX - fewer slots for expansion etc. Read the mobo spec - if it meets your needs there shouldn't be any other problems.

I'd go with a fanless card.

Gotta go - wife calling & I have to wax her legs.

[Parm]

Oh nuts, I think you're right, those CPU coolers won't fit in those cases. Thats thrown a spanner in the works, doh!

[DanceswithUnix]

Measure where you intend putting an Antec fusion before you buy one. I was quite surprised at how large mine was when it turned up.

Pretty looking thing though.

[Parm]

Apologies for the delay in updating this thread, I had laser surgery on my eyes last week so I've been out of action. Alas, I'm back and picking up the project where I left off.

I've revamped my PC spec and it can be seen on the spreadsheet here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...M19_MN_oK8xCLQ

From that spec, here are my new questions (sorry in advance for having so many!):

• Case
  I'm really torn between the Antec NSK2480 and Antec Fusion Black. On the one hand, I like the idea of a black case (always had silver in the past so it'll be a nice change). The fusion also has stealthed drives which are a big must for a HTPC I think? Though the NSK2480 is a lot cheaper, putting a drive in it will surely ruin the whole appearance? I've heard really bad things about the Fusions VFD though, poor drivers, rarely works with the remote and very poor LCD. With the NSK2480, I could add something like an iMon if I really wanted too?
  The NSK2480 I've listed as £57.99, the Fusion Black can be had for £109.98. I'm really undecided on that one.
• Power Supply
  I've listed one (500W Corsair HX) but I'll be trying the PSU supplied with the case first. If that's sufficient I'll keep it, if not I'll order the Corsair. From what I've read, it's one of the most efficient and one of the quieter ones too.
• Processor
  Again in a bit of a pickle here, I've put the E6600 but I'm wondering if I should take the plunge and go for the Q6600, the price different isn't much but I'm really not sure if I could keep the Q6600 reasonably cool. I won't be overclocking it and the G0 model seems to eat less power, though still more than the E6600.
• CPU Cooler
  I've been told that the Mini Ninja fits the case perfectly, so that's the one I've settled on.
• Motherboard
  There doesn't seem to be much of a range for mATX boards, so I've just picked out the latest ASUS one. It doesn't have built in wi-fi which is a bit of a shame, that could always come in handy. Other than that, I think it's fine?
• Memory
  I've put 2GB's of pretty well priced Corsair memory. As it's relatively cheap, I'm curious about getting another 2GB in there too...worth doing?
• Graphics Card
  Spent a while on this one, originally going for an 8600GTS I've now changed to an 2600XT. It's cheaper and from what I've read, is better for HD media. It seems to suffer quite badly in games from benchmarks I've seen, but all of them say it's due to currently bad drivers so it seems to me that the 2600XT is a good card that'll only get better. Did I mention it's a good price?
  I've put the GDDR4 one down, should I just get the GDDR3 one instead though? Brings the price down a bit more.
• Hard Drive 1 & 2
  These aren't much of a deal, I'll definitely get Samsung Spinpoint drives cause I've heard such good things about them. I could go for 320, 400 or 500 GB models, I'll see what I need. Might just start with one drive to begin with, seems a lot of storage to me but then I haven't ever recorded any TV shows.
• TV Tuner
  This one I have no idea. I've looked around and the only conclusion I can find is that there isn't a good Tuner that works on Vista 64bit? What I want is a Tuner that allows me to watch Freeview (inc HD channels like BBC HD) and allow me to record one channel whilst watching another in Media Centre. Can't seem to find one that allows that.
• DVD Drive
  Thought this would be the easiest component but I've gone and complicated this too. I have a standard Samsung DVD writer listed, but what if I wanted to watch a HD-DVD? I remember reading that the Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive works on a PC and having checked, they can be had for £99.99 these days! Would I be able to get one of those, remove the outer shell and insert it into a PC? Trouble with that though, if I use the Fusion case for example I only have one drive bay so I'd have either DVD writing ability or HD-DVD playing ability, not both. With the NSK2480 I could do both, but without stealthed drives it sure would look fugly.
  So, Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive in an HTPC - can it be done, should it be done?
• Keyboard & Mouse
  OK OK, I know I'm trying to keep it cheap and my keyboard and mouse combo is horribly expensive. I really like this combo though and have heard nothing but praise for it. I'm going to be using the keyboard and mouse everyday, I may as well enjoy it. I'm thankful I can resist the backlit 8000 model which is way more expensive!
• Operating System
  Vista Home Premium 64Bit, not much more to say on this matter.
• Office Suite
  Put down Office 2007 Home and Student, it's only £80 and allows me to install on 3 PC's so my Dad, my brother and myself can all have it on our PCs, lovely jubbly.

If you're still awake after reading all that, I thank you! Any advice?

[mroz]

Afraid I've nothing helpful to add, but I did just want to say thanks for the heads up on Scan Corsair ram prices. Nice. I was going to have to order Geil Ultra from MicroDirect, but taking into account p&p the Scan Corsair is actually cheaper now - two weeks ago it was nearly £20 more.

Also, I can't really resist... nice avatar... did you by any chance do your own laser eye surgery?

Hope the recovery goes well.

[DanceswithUnix]

According to Anandtech the Nvidia cards are slightly better quality hi-def decode than ATI. They also pretty much admit that others may disagree and there isn't much in it, but thought you might like to know.

ATI/AMD was slightly faster in their benchmarks, but as long as you avoid the 8800 they all seem fast enough.

But then you have mentioned the price...

[Biscuit]

Apologies for the delay in updating this thread, I had laser surgery on my eyes last week so I've been out of action. Alas, I'm back and picking up the project where I left off.

I've revamped my PC spec and it can be seen on the spreadsheet here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...M19_MN_oK8xCLQ

From that spec, here are my new questions (sorry in advance for having so many!):
[LIST][*]Case
I'm really torn between the Antec NSK2480 and Antec Fusion Black. On the one hand, I like the idea of a black case (always had silver in the past so it'll be a nice change). The fusion also has stealthed drives which are a big must for a HTPC I think? Though the NSK2480 is a lot cheaper, putting a drive in it will surely ruin the whole appearance? I've heard really bad things about the Fusions VFD though, poor drivers, rarely works with the remote and very poor LCD. With the NSK2480, I could add something like an iMon if I really wanted too?
The NSK2480 I've listed as £57.99, the Fusion Black can be had for £109.98. I'm really undecided on that one.

Its your call but i dont htink that a DVD drive would ruin the appearance. Make it look a little worse than the other but not to a massive degree
[*]Power Supply
I've listed one (500W Corsair HX) but I'll be trying the PSU supplied with the case first. If that's sufficient I'll keep it, if not I'll order the Corsair. From what I've read, it's one of the most efficient and one of the quieter ones too.

personally i would just get the corsair anyway, its highly recomended anywhere u look and is extrememly quiet. I think i will vbe getting one of these or possibly the seasonic s12 soon
[*]Processor
Again in a bit of a pickle here, I've put the E6600 but I'm wondering if I should take the plunge and go for the Q6600, the price different isn't much but I'm really not sure if I could keep the Q6600 reasonably cool. I won't be overclocking it and the G0 model seems to eat less power, though still more than the E6600.

Dont worry bout cooling, if you have the mini ninja (or the cooler i suggested) you will be fine. Make sure you have good airflow in the case, this will help things a lot. The Sharkoon Golfballs (120mm 1000rpm & 80mm 2000rpm) are all but silent and move more than enough air. Have you decided against the idea of the 1333mhz fsb cpus? if you go dual core and ur not overclocking u may aswell have the E6750
[*]CPU Cooler
I've been told that the Mini Ninja fits the case perfectly, so that's the one I've settled on.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...odid=HS-043-TR new fan from from thermalright and it performs to the same level as much bigger bulkier and heavier fans. Check out the review here http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling...oc.aspx?i=3068 looks to be the dog b*llocks tbh, i reckon ALOT of people will be choosing it for new builds int he next few months
[*]Motherboard
There doesn't seem to be much of a range for mATX boards, so I've just picked out the latest ASUS one. It doesn't have built in wi-fi which is a bit of a shame, that could always come in handy. Other than that, I think it's fine?

yeah just buy a PCI or USB wifi adaptor, probs better in the long run anyway
[*]Memory
I've put 2GB's of pretty well priced Corsair memory. As it's relatively cheap, I'm curious about getting another 2GB in there too...worth doing?

If you are going 64bit yes i would say so but tbf i run vista 32bit with 2gb DDR1 ram and i have no issues with the speed it runs at all
[*]Graphics Card
Spent a while on this one, originally going for an 8600GTS I've now changed to an 2600XT. It's cheaper and from what I've read, is better for HD media. It seems to suffer quite badly in games from benchmarks I've seen, but all of them say it's due to currently bad drivers so it seems to me that the 2600XT is a good card that'll only get better. Did I mention it's a good price?
I've put the GDDR4 one down, should I just get the GDDR3 one instead though? Brings the price down a bit more.

Hmmmm, personally i would have gone with the nvidia option because the ATI cards are a bit of a gamble, up to u if u wanna take the gamble though i suppose! GDDR4, whilst quicker, i think has slightly higher latencies on the ram... not sure what difference this will make but again its your call
[*]Hard Drive 1 & 2
These aren't much of a deal, I'll definitely get Samsung Spinpoint drives cause I've heard such good things about them. I could go for 320, 400 or 500 GB models, I'll see what I need. Might just start with one drive to begin with, seems a lot of storage to me but then I haven't ever recorded any TV shows.

i would get 1x320 for windows and stuff and one 500gb for storage, both a bit overkill but hdd are so cheap atm. The advantages of having windows on seperate drive to files is if the windows installation gets corrumpted or whatever then u can just reformat and start from fresh. Alternitavely you could just use 1x500GB and set a 100gb partition (or something like that) then keep windows on the partition
[*]TV Tuner
This one I have no idea. I've looked around and the only conclusion I can find is that there isn't a good Tuner that works on Vista 64bit? What I want is a Tuner that allows me to watch Freeview (inc HD channels like BBC HD) and allow me to record one channel whilst watching another in Media Centre. Can't seem to find one that allows that.

cant help here
[*]DVD Drive
Thought this would be the easiest component but I've gone and complicated this too. I have a standard Samsung DVD writer listed, but what if I wanted to watch a HD-DVD? I remember reading that the Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive works on a PC and having checked, they can be had for £99.99 these days! Would I be able to get one of those, remove the outer shell and insert it into a PC? Trouble with that though, if I use the Fusion case for example I only have one drive bay so I'd have either DVD writing ability or HD-DVD playing ability, not both. With the NSK2480 I could do both, but without stealthed drives it sure would look fugly.

Do you have HDDVDs? if so carry on watching them how you do now, otherwise just stick witht he DVD-RW then when the blu-ray/hddvd war ends (or the dual drives are around) and prices come down just buy a new drive then
So, Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive in an HTPC - can it be done, should it be done?[*]Keyboard & Mouse
OK OK, I know I'm trying to keep it cheap and my keyboard and mouse combo is horribly expensive. I really like this combo though and have heard nothing but praise for it. I'm going to be using the keyboard and mouse everyday, I may as well enjoy it. I'm thankful I can resist the backlit 8000 model which is way more expensive!

nothing to be ashamed of from having a decent, comfortable functional kb&m but i gotta admit that is way overkill!

[McPhee]

I've not read the whole thread through but why not consider a Silverstone case? Theres some within you're budget that are a lot better looking than the NSK and don't have the VFD problems of the Fusion.

Theres also this: http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Produ...oductID=618013
Seems a good compromise between HTPC and Tower, Hexus gave it a pretty good review too: http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=8438

[Sprite]

If you wanted to save some money you could get a 'less powerful' PSU, you really don't need a 520w Corsair one.

Also check the measurements of the Antec case on their website to make sure it fits in that space. If you wanted a small ATX case take a look at the Lian Li PC A05B

[menthel]

The antec PSU in the 2400 is good. My htpc is run by one and it is nice and quiet. I don't have a gfx card in now but I did have a 7600gt in there and there were no problems at all. It may be a waste (and a tight squeeze) to fit in another PSU as the antec was pretty much designed (although sold separately too) for the case. Pop over to the silent pc review site as they had a hand in designing it and have a nice review.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article591-page1.html

[Thorsson]

On the matter of heat. The more powerful the computer the more heat it's going to chuck out. And that heat only has one place to go - into your room. No way around that, except opening doors/windows or getting an aircon.

So the best thing to keep temps down inside and out is to go for low power items. Samsung HDs run cool, G0 stepping C2Ds throw out less heat than the B3s, but when you've got 4 cores that's still a fair bit of heat. Graphics card - you can pretty much tell how hot it is by the size of the HSF. The other key part is the PSU - see below.

On the PSU. It's not all about the wattage. It's about stability, efficiency, and how good the rails are. Plus if you get a modular supply, it means less wires, which means more efficient cooling inside the case. Efficiency will govern how much additional power it will use over what is actually needed by your parts. And that additional (wasted) power ends up as heat. One of the most efficient PSUs around is the FSP Zen 400W, @ 88.8%.