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  1. #17
    RIP Evy mroz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clunk View Post
    Why not go RAID 5?
    Doesn't that just get you the benefits of raid 1 but with less than a 50% 'loss' of potential capacity? For the OP, I'd imagine the requirement for a larger number of drives might be off putting

  2. #18
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    I'm trying to learn about the practical benefits & problems of raid, so hope you don't mind a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by ikonia View Post
    but no data security.

    bottom line %99 of the home users will not see any benifit from using raid 1, less so on crappy on board home user raid controllers.
    Are you saying the lack of security is down to the 'crappy' raid implementation of most/all mobo onboard solutions?

    What is it that isn't liked? Are all of these (of interest to me are ICH8R & ICH9R) hardware/software hybrids? I'm guessing yes & that's the reason for your earlier chicken & egg comments.

    What are your concerns? Inadequate benefits through inefficient implementation or high failures rates & recovery problems?

    Recommend any hardware options?

  3. #19
    Flat cap, Whippets, Cave. Clunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mroz View Post
    Doesn't that just get you the benefits of raid 1 but with less than a 50% 'loss' of potential capacity? For the OP, I'd imagine the requirement for a larger number of drives might be off putting
    Depends on how many drives you use. I use 6 and there is still the drive space of 5 of them.

    As you say though, RAID 5 is no good for the OP, I read the post as he had 4 drives and not 2

    On mine, the read speeds arent far off what they are on RAID 0, but the write speeds are a fair bit less.

    Theres a HDTach/HDtune thread with plenty of info about RAID kicking about somewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzen View Post
    stupid betond belief.
    You owe it to yourself to click here really.

  4. #20
    RIP Evy mroz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clunk View Post
    Depends on how many drives you use. I use 6 and there is still the drive space of 5 of them.
    Indeed, as only one stores the parity data.
    On mine, the read speeds arent far off what they are on RAID 0, but the write speeds are a fair bit less.
    Less than write speeds of raid 0 or a non-raid setup?
    Theres a HDTach/HDtune thread with plenty of info about RAID kicking about somewhere.
    I'll have another look. I have already read some threads but probably didn't bookmark them.

  5. #21
    Flat cap, Whippets, Cave. Clunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mroz View Post

    Less than write speeds of raid 0 or a non-raid setup?
    Yes, a bit less than RAID 0 using the same drives.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzen View Post
    stupid betond belief.
    You owe it to yourself to click here really.

  6. #22
    Agent of the System ikonia's Avatar
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    to respond to your questions.

    1.) the solutions on your motherboards aren't real raid solutions. In that they require an OS driver to manage the disks You comment about the chicken and the egg situation is spot on.

    2.) look at the price of it a 4 port genuine raid card costs what, £150-ish your getting a board with 6 SATA ports on it for £130 something has to give and its quality. So all the talk about performance can be potentially negated by perhaps not the best pysical implimentation.

    The failure rates are down to the actual drives really, but again home implimentations won't use the same quality drives as a general rule of thumb as say business systems that would more likley benifit from raid.

    Its like buying a a Porche Boxter, its a great value item (your board) and will perfom well for you, but its not a 911. Trying to make it perform like a 911 just won't happen, or trying to impliment some of the specifications of a 911 onto you boxter....sure you CAN, but it will never quite be as professional or solid as buying one straight from the factory. I'm just using that as an easy example of great value against true meant for purpose kit. Great value doesn't mean cheap - it just means not quite as high end fit for purpose.
    It is Inevitable.....


  7. #23
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    <raid 5 write speeds>
    Quote Originally Posted by Clunk View Post
    Yes, a bit less than RAID 0 using the same drives.
    Nice
    Last edited by mroz; 09-08-2007 at 04:35 PM. Reason: Idiot can't type

  8. #24
    RIP Evy mroz's Avatar
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      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte P35-DS4 rev 1.1
      • CPU:
      • Q6600 G0 @ 2.4GHz (was @ 3.2GHz), TRU120X (lapped) + Sythe S-Flex 1600rpm
      • Memory:
      • Corsair 6GiB DDR2 Twin2X 6400 C4 (was 2GiB)
      • Storage:
      • Samsung Spinpoint 500GB x 2
      • Graphics card(s):
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      • PSU:
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      • Case:
      • Antec 900 aka The Vacuum Cleaner
      • Monitor(s):
      • They're everywhere
      • Internet:
      • Zen upto 75Mb/s (typically 26Mb/s when no one else is using the internet)
    Quote Originally Posted by ikonia View Post
    The failure rates are down to the actual drives really, but again home implimentations won't use the same quality drives as a general rule of thumb as say business systems that would more likley benifit from raid.

    Its like buying a a Porche Boxter, its a great value item (your board) and will perfom well for you, but its not a 911. Trying to make it perform like a 911 just won't happen, or trying to impliment some of the specifications of a 911 onto you boxter....sure you CAN, but it will never quite be as professional or solid as buying one straight from the factory. I'm just using that as an easy example of great value against true meant for purpose kit. Great value doesn't mean cheap - it just means not quite as high end fit for purpose.
    So relying on onboard raid for redundancy might not be a great idea, but when it comes to performance, onboard raid 0 might still be worthwhile, if not as good as with an higher quality solution? That's making the assumption performance is on more of a continuum & some benefit might be worthwhile at low cost, whereas with data integrity there's a cut off point below which it's not worth bothering.

  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mroz View Post
    So relying on onboard raid for redundancy might not be a great idea,....
    Not at all.
    Just because they are not 'real' RAID solutions, doesn't mean they are not worthwhile.
    The RAID on the Intel chipsets is actually very good for a home system, certainly one of the best out there. High-point are also another good company for home RAID solutions. Stay away from anything based on a silicon image chip, though.

    'Real' RAID cards cost &#163;&#163;&#163;, and are not aimed towards the home user. As much as Ikonia is right, buying such a card for a home system is an overkill.

    If you have important data that you can not afford to loose, then RAID 1 with either an Intel based chipset that supports RAID, or a High-point card would be a good choice. Always remember though that they will only ever protect you from a drive failing - Thats it, nothing more.
    Accidental deletion, Fire, Floods, or a virus wiping out your data will still land you in a world of hurt. If its that important you need to use it in conjunction with an off-site backup
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

  10. #26
    RIP Evy mroz's Avatar
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      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte P35-DS4 rev 1.1
      • CPU:
      • Q6600 G0 @ 2.4GHz (was @ 3.2GHz), TRU120X (lapped) + Sythe S-Flex 1600rpm
      • Memory:
      • Corsair 6GiB DDR2 Twin2X 6400 C4 (was 2GiB)
      • Storage:
      • Samsung Spinpoint 500GB x 2
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      • Case:
      • Antec 900 aka The Vacuum Cleaner
      • Monitor(s):
      • They're everywhere
      • Internet:
      • Zen upto 75Mb/s (typically 26Mb/s when no one else is using the internet)
    Thanks for the comments. I'll bear them in mind. There seems to be quite a lot of varied but strong opinions about in respect of RAID.

  11. #27
    Agent of the System ikonia's Avatar
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    motherboard failing = probably al oss of raid too when you replace it don't forget.
    It is Inevitable.....


  12. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikonia View Post
    motherboard failing = probably al oss of raid too when you replace it don't forget.
    That depends on the motherboard.
    Intel based ones are cross-compatible usually
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

  13. #29
    Flat cap, Whippets, Cave. Clunk's Avatar
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    ICH8R and ICH9R are apparently
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzen View Post
    stupid betond belief.
    You owe it to yourself to click here really.

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