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Building a nice small PC for a mates girlfriend and thought before we go on and order the thing it would be worth checking with all you lot. We have an old 6600 and a copy of windows for it
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s...r/Untitled.jpg
There will be no overclocking and it will never go through any heavy use so i no need to worry about cooling too much.
Budget is around £500-£550
speakers?
So why the heck do you have a quad-core in there? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Biscuit
I'd also probably go with a slightly more powerful PSU for the system.
IMO, id simply drop it to a core2duo, maybe even a single core, 4300, ect?
edit - also what case?
Integrated into TFT, from the looks of things.Quote:
Originally Posted by jay_oasis
Cheapest AM2 X2 CPU, £30 mobo, 200GB HDD max, 1GB ram, cheapest edimax wifi card. That'd save a fair bit of money and still run fine and dandy.
If you already have the quad core or not, it's a complete waist for this sort of machine, get a cheaper CPU, if you don't want the CPU sell it on flea bay and you'll probobly get just short of what you pay new anyway.
Some of the barebones systems on scan might be worth a look, better chioce on cases and might save you a few quid.
I think stick with a Core2, but it might be best to ask if she wants to save some money and drop down to a budget one. Also 667mhz ram might save a bit, i dont think 800mhz is needed.
And just a thought - will an ATX psu fit in a uATX case (not my area of expertise)?
Some cases will say specificly that they will fit an ATX psu, but most do not, worth looking at.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanky123
Disagree with that. Every standard uATX case I've used has been able to use an ATX PSU. It's the true SFF cases which usually struggle (Shuttle's, other random cubes, Pundit's, proper HTPC cases, etc). Standard uATX cases (thinking shrunken towers like the TJ08) will fit them fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy3536
Agree with everyone regarding the CPU though - if it's not going to get particularly heavy use it's a complete and utter waste of money. Mismatch of the century there - 6600 (assuming you meant the graphics card) and Q6600.
Oh, and My PSU comment was only if you do decide to keep the Quad-core, which i'm against :)
Are you kidding?.. even if there was another SLACR in there, a 380W Tagan would still have enough juice to power the christmas lights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent
Sure would. I Just think a slightly higher wattage rated unit would sit better on the efficiency curve.
You know my opinion on people saying you need a 600watt PSU for quad core :D
The entire system is just an over-kill IMO though.
I dunno, that could be just about the right spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent
Yeah, agreed there. I have the E6320 running @ stock atm and it's more than enough for menial desktop tasks up to mid-level number crunching.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent
Speakers are not an issue as it will be wired through a hi-fi.
Yes it is overkill but thats kind of the idea as it wont be changed for a number of years. What i was really trying to get out of the build was a computer that will last a few years without having to upgrade.
Not trying to save money in anyway, trying to get the most possible out of £500-550.
Dont see the point in going down to 667 ram its only a few quid cheaper.
As for the case... its up for debate, would prefer it to be small and fairly tidy lookin (as it is for a girl) will have a gander at the barebones but the supplied PSU's tend to be on the lame side.
May end up dropping to a dual core when it comes to the buy but like i said... trying to get the most out of the budget was the plan.
What does she do? If she's not number crunching or a gamer then frankly a Celeron will do. It's not getting the most for the money, it's getting the best value for the money. If she's sitting there asking you to spec up a system, yet she's not intending to play Crysis or something (unlikely if you're using a 6600...), then you've got your bases hopelessly wrong. There's a sweet spot, but it sounds like you're a million miles from it.
I think you would be better off finding out what she wants to use the PC for and go from there. The system you have is unbalanced with the 6600 and no graphics card so I presume there is no gaming involved.
You may want to look at this thread that compares a pre-built Dell with a diy build for the same money.
It is surprising how long a machine will last these days. I still occasionally use a xp2800, 512mb ram, xp pro sp2 machine and it will do MS office, internets, email etc quite happily. Machine in my sig is 2 years old (new hard drive) and will be more than powerful enough to last another 2-3 years for the basics.
Would a pre-built be better value for money and less grief for you (tech support) if her PC has some problems in the future?
Well that post wasnt helpful or very pleasant
Im sorry but who in their right mind would put a celeron in a £500 build. I wouldnt even go AMD its just not worth it when C2D performs so well. Plus how long would a celeron stay fast for(not that it would be fast to begin with)? this PC is designed to keep her going for a number of years, not a few months. Just because she isnt going to game or anything like that doesnt mean she has to have a slow computer.Quote:
Originally Posted by this_is_gav
Well im pretty sure the person who i am buying it for and me are the people who make that decision. The decision was, whats the MOST, so i dont apprciate being corrected.Quote:
Originally Posted by this_is_gav
Apart from the fact that, if it fits the budget then putting a quadcore in fills both of those criteria. APART FROM THAT, i also said we may end up just going C2D when it comes to the buy.
Doesnt really bother me helping out with her computer, got a few mates round here who know what they are talking about. The whole idea with building a PC was to avoid companies like Dell who from my experience are more of a pain in the arse than going to a mates house and helping out with her computer evey now and then.Quote:
Originally Posted by iranu
As i said, i know its unbalanced but the more that can be put in for the £500 the longer it will last.
Frankly you're in the wrong place if you just want confirmation that what's best for her is what you recommend. If you're posting specs and asking for advice then you're going to get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biscuit
You might want to print this off and give it to her, though I suspect you won't, but if she's not a gamer and she's spending £500 then she's wasting 30% of it.
Even a C2D is a waste. I'd struggle to even recommend an E21xx to be brutally honest. What's coming up that a budget CPU couldn't manage? Seriously? Is t'internet going to be multicore? If you're a real friend, do the right thing, don't do what you've been asked.
I don't see a case in there. Which case are you using?
You should check carefully that your PSU will fit your case. Not all will.
I built up a uATX system back in January using a Silverstone Sugo SG01 Case, and that Targan PSU. In theory the PSU should have fitted in the case, as it was ATX and the case said that it took an ATX PSU. The problem was that the PSU was 17.5cm long and hit the back of the optical drive. In the end I had to replace the PSU with a shorter one that was only 14cm long.
Unfortunately scan don't list the length of the PSUs they stock so you will have to do some googling.
Edit:
See this thread I started about it.
corsair.. nice and short ;)
I was going to use the sg01 for my uATX but the HSF restrictions put me off
You don't like being corrected? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Biscuit
Why come to a forum then, asking peoples opinion if you can't take the constructive criticism ? Thats the _entire_ point of forums.
Putting a quad-core in in a waste. Period.
Simply putting it in because it fits within the budget is doing nothing other than
a) Wasting money
b) Convincing her that she has a more powerful system, when the extra power that is there wouldn't be accessible or used by the things she would do.
With all due respect, that's wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biscuit
If its unbalanced now, it will be unbalanced in a few years time. The extra power won't suddenly shine through because there is a new revision of MS word. To make a system last longer you need all the components in it to be more powerful, and more importantly, balanced.
With the rate of technology these days anyway, and for what shes using it for, it would make very little difference if you got the basic kit, or top end stuff. By the time it doesn't meet her needs, we will have gone through several computing revisions, making the entire planning ahead thing mute.
In all honesty, scrap the system. The components are misfits. Its wasting her money. Building her a quad-core is no different to what you are trying to avoid by going Dell: Selling her a system that's not suited for the task. And sorry to say, but if you do go ahead with the build unchanged, she would have been better going with a Dell.
I can reccoment a SG01 case. It is nice compact and stylish.Quote:
Originally Posted by staffsMike
A stock intel HSF will fit just fine and will be suficent if you don't plan to overclock. Many Zalaman style coolers will also fit if you prefer. I do recomend you get the special cross flow exhust fan that fits between the motherboard I/O sockets and the PSU to draw heat from the PSU out of the case.
If you get the overclocking bug later then there is always the option to fit water cooling.
:O_o1: why is no-one listening to what im saying. She wants to spend £500 on a computer, im not forcing her to spend more than she needs to... i appriciate the advice in saying 'what your getting is overkill' but i dont appriciate people telling me/suggesting im a bad friend because im not convincing her to spend less than she wants. If anyone has suggestions on fixing up a system that would be better suited FOR THE BUDGET SET REGARDLESS OF WETHER IT IS WASTING MONEY, then i am open to suggestions which is why i posted on a forum.
I wanted advice on:
1. wether it would work ok (ie power requirements, componant conflicts etc)
2. if the psu/case combo wud be ok
3. any other build suggestions.
I did not post on here to have my loyalty as a friend judged and to be made to look like a fool.
Did i say putting a quad in there isnt a waste? no i didnt, i said i know it is BUT this is how much money is to be spent and i happened to make a quad fit. I ALSO SAID WHEN IT COMES TO THE BUY WE MAY NOT GO THAT WAY ANYWAY.
The critisim i got was hardly constructive as it didnt really help me in any way. Your telling me that she doesnt need to spend that amount of money on a computer... like i dont already know that. My point is SHE WANTS TOO. im not some daft PC world employer convincing someone to spend more money than she intended on stuff she doesnt need, i have been asked to get the most out of £500 which is what i have done.
Now instead of slating the decision i made based on the guidelines i was given and telling me to force my friend into spending less money than she wants, can i have some ACTUAL CONSTRUCTIVE SUGGESTIONS about the mobo/ram/cpu decision. I cant see that having a system that is balanced more towards CPU and RAM would actually cause a problem but if you can balance up the componants i would be glad to read through it and consider it...
Thanks everyone about the case/cooling i will call scan before i order and double check that the PSU i order fits the case. I think we will probs go with stock HSF although if we do drop down to DC or whatever then the spare budget could go on a half decent cooler.
After talking to her about what she will use the computer for it turns out that they will be some light photo manipulation and large spreadsheet/database use as she is in accounting atm.
^ Unfortunately your OP didn't say that. If she is unwilling to follow advice from someone such as yourself who knows what they are on about and the knowledgeable people on Hexus who like to see people get a good deal then she deserves no more than to be pointed in the direction of PCWorld.
1. Yes
2. Yes.
3 see rest of thread.
With the £100-150 she could save she could buy a top line processor in a couple of years time if she wants it to last.
I'd print the thread out and show her.
if she's going to do "light photo manipulation" get a much cheaper cpu and get a much better monitor if she's that desperate to spend her full budget.
are you sure she wouldn't be happy getting a perfectly good system for much less and having extra money to spend on something else?
Well the thing is if you get something from PC world Dell etc, you pay for the operating system and a package of unnecissary software aswell. She already has legit copys from her previous computer that she is happy to use so it would be a waste there. There is always the most obvious selling point to a home built computer in that YOU KNOW which parts are in there so you know that they are up to scratch and your more likely to be able to problem solve if there is an issue rather than sending the entire thing back to be blabbed at by some idiot techy who doesnt really know what he is on about & treats u like u dont know what ur on about.
What im trying to say to people who for some reason have decided to make this personal against me, is that she wants a computer that will be fast, regardless of wether she will use it or not... It may turn out she decides to start video editing, i dont know and tbh i dont really care, its her decision to want to spend a certain amount of money on a computer. I have already agreed that a quad is way overkill so just SHUT UP about it and stop missing the point that... it doesnt matter to me so it shouldnt matter to you and we probably wont use it anyway.
Il reorder the specification to stop people moaning about it being overboard.
You have £500 budget to build a computer that will be used mainly for day to day things, music, video, internet, office. Some photoshop work may be done. The computer needs to stay usable for a few years. A graphics card and copy of windows is already present.
I was considering bumping the monitor up to a better quality one... something i may have to discuss with her but i welcome any ideas.
I think part of the reason she is wanting to hit that budget is her parents are offering up the cash
We're not making it personal. We're saying that if you really wanted to help her, this is what we feel you should do - it's what we'd do in that same situation. It's hardly an attack on you, and your attitude isn't going to get you far...Quote:
Originally Posted by Biscuit
If photo work is one of the main criteria, then then iranu's suggestion of getting a lower CPU and getting a better (ie. non-gaming) monitor will be best. You never mentioned that before. We can't recommend much if we don't know its purpose.
Bumping up the monitor is the best way to help her spend her money. Get her as much monitor real estate as you can afford. That way she will probably use her monetary outlay rather than very little power on a quad core.
Well to be quite honest Gav so far i put specifications down which where, as i expected, told to be overkill. Not a problem i was kind of expecting that, but the usual way of things on here as i have known it so far is for people to then give constructive suggestions on how to reorder the system to fit the bill. I cant EVER remember a time where rude and condescending language became a part of helping someone.
Comments like...
Quote:
Originally Posted by this_is_gav
Quote:
Originally Posted by this_is_gav
Are clearly going to revoke a negative response. So then saying things like...Quote:
Originally Posted by this_is_gav
Well... so far you have ignored everything i said about the computer i specced because you dont feel that she has the need to spend so much money on a computer that will be for minor activities, not sure where exactly i asked for someone to tell her what she needed or deserved. You also made the assumption i was pushing her into spending money unnecessarily... no where does it suggest that. You also tried to make judement on my ability to be a friend to this person, i feel i have the right to take up a certain amount of attitude and feel insulted.Quote:
Originally Posted by this_is_gav
Also the suggestions you have made have been less than helpful...
ok so i/we didnt know the full requirements of the pc but i wouldn't ever in my right mind suggest a celeron to anyone unless they where on a real tight budget. The fact of the matter is C2 are very good processers regardless of their workload, when a £500 budget is there, 90% of the time thats what goes in. For the money nowerdays, may as well be dual core... who knows whats waiting round the corner where she may benefit from this. I don't see how anyone can argue with 'if you got the money & want to spend it, may as well leave head-room'Quote:
What does she do? If she's not number crunching or a gamer then frankly a Celeron will do.
If you have some critism, i will had have listen, in my first reply i stated that we may change from QC to DC for this reason so again, no need for such a rude reply. I made it quite clear what i didnt want to be corrected on and that was NOT the spec itselfQuote:
Originally Posted by Agent
again, wheres this come from?Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent
Im not avoiding dell because they couldnt give her something to fit the task, im sure what they would give her would fit it more closely to what she needed, fact of the matter is i can build her more than she needs for the same/less money and im happy to provide 1 on 1 technical support with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent
Now can we please stop all this putting me down because its not what i signed up for on this forum, all i expected was some pleasant useful suggestions. If i wanted a ballache i would have gone to PC world or the typical local PC shop and asked for advice.
Are you going to tell me that because the computer is CPU/RAM biased that it will be more likely to problems than a computer from Dell? Im not being sarcastic btw, seriously will it cause problems?
I think the final decision has gone to a C2D either E6750 or E4500(something like that anyway) Changed the mobo to an ABIT IP35 and she said she wasnt to bothered about it being uATX, so the case/psu to the Sonata 3 with the 500w supply (read some good reviews, any opinions?), changed the monitor to a 19" wide LG one with better contrast ratio(she doesnt want a really big monitor). and the final price was just over 500.
Thanks to all for suggestions
Ditch the big 24litres of uATX case and upgrade to a Shuttle. At 138 quid it is a bit more than the case+psu+mobo you had before, but not that much. At 11litres and a much more classy finish, she should love the Shuttle.
There is an nforce4 chipset version with better sound and gigabit lan which is 158 quid, or if you must have Intel there is one that will take a 4xxx series for 160 but that seems a bit dead end. At least the AMD ones should take a quad or triple core when Phenom finally bothers to show and it sounds like an energy efficient X2 would be more than enough for her needs.
Sadly the good Intel based Shuttles are 221 quid, which I think makes them rather overpriced.
Thanks Unix, Il will price a barebones up for her and show her it to see what she thinks but she didnt seem all that bothered about the case when i spoke to her.
Generally fair points, and I guess I could have been a bit sweeter, but we (I) are not the ones asking for opinions. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BiscuitAre clearly going to revoke a negative response. So then saying things like...
Well... so far you have ignored everything i said about the computer i specced because you dont feel that she has the need to spend so much money on a computer that will be for minor activities, not sure where exactly i asked for someone to tell her what she needed or deserved.Quote:
Originally Posted by this_is_gav
You mean other than the first post which didn't explain anything and just gave a spec you had appeared to have specced up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Biscuit
I didn't try to judge you at all - I pointed out it was a waste of money and that if you were a good friend it would a poor choice (in my opinion) to recommend it to someone you like... if you hated them fair enough. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Biscuit
You followed that up yourself by saying you didn't know the requirements. How can we help when we don't know the use? I suggested "What does she do? If she's not number crunching or a gamer then frankly a Celeron will do". Without knowing anything how isn't that helpful? For the record we use a room full of Celerons at work, and they're fine for 95% of 2D work and 99% of home work when gaming isn't involved. I wouldn't recommend them now given the price of the excellent E21x0s, and AMD X2s too, but the principle stands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biscuit
If you're going square then I like the look of the SUGO SG01B. Obviously both they and Shuttles restrict you a bit more than a shrunken tower, but they're a bit 'cuter' if you think she'd prefer that. Gives you a bit more flexibility over a Shuttle too (and you can fit in an ATX PSU), so take your pick over which approach you'd like if heading down that route. Obviously disregard all this if you do go ATX though. The Sonata series have always been well regarded, and if it's new PSU included (as in not been lying around for a while, not that it's 2nd hand) then apparently Seasonic are now making some of Antec's PSUs. :)
I'd reconsider the monitor though - it's just another random gaming monitor - they're not bad, but if you drop that CPU to the E4500 you mentioned (the cache is only really useful in heavy encoding), would a 2007FPW be coming into reach, as that would be infinitely better than the... optimistically specced gaming TFTs?
Might spec something up myself later to give you an alternative approach (so long as you don't read it as me suggesting that you're a poor friend :P)
It is a shame they don't sell Shuttles in PC World any more (I'm sure I saw one once) as I don't think the pictures do them justice and it would be nice to see one. Seeing a uATX next to a Shuttle is kind of like comparing a big alley cat to a kitten :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Biscuit
it is true, my uATX SFF towers over my shuttle. there incomparable size wise
As for that monitor, nice but she ws quite adement that she wanted no larger than a 19"... wierd i know. Is there any better ones than what i suggested for that size on scan?
I think i may use a shuttle for my media bx eventually bit tight on cash atm though :( Would a HD2600xt fit in one?
No idea. I couldn't recommend any anyway. :(
HD2600XT should fit in a Shuttle so long as it uses the stock cooler - depending on the Shuttle some won't fit the dual-slot coolers, but they're pretty rare on 2600XTs (I think it's restricted to the those which use passive coolers). Power won't be an issue either, as they're better than 6600GTs. I'm going to be sticking a 2400Pro in my HTPC when I find a one which includes a low-profile bracket. :)
I was thinking more of the card sticking out too far backwards not the size of the cooler, although glad u mentioned it cuz the one i was lookin has a dual slot cooler lol. I think i may opt for a desktop case rather than shuttle anyway as it will partly be a media server for films tv proggies music and all my uni work (i study media tech) so will need plenty of hdd space.Quote:
Originally Posted by this_is_gav
I got myself the Sapphire 512mb 2600Pro for my main box at work recently, and while I couldn't recommend it directly as the fan's supposed to be a touch on the noisy side (I've a server right next to it, so can't really hear the fan at all), the size of it is pretty standard. I believe it follows the reference design (and most will) if that's any use to you.