PSU - Is 450W Enough?

I've just been reading Clunk's Overclocking Guide for Beginners and found it to be most excellent. He recommended that a newbie, such as myself, should post their new system specs to get some advice on the power requirements. So that's exactly what I'm doing... :)

I've read some reviews of the Corsair VX450W 450 Watt PSU and thought that it looked promising.(Again, I'm sticking to Clunk's advice of sticking to a solid brand, like Corsair).

The rest of the system will be:
MSI P6N SLI Platinum Motherboard
Intel Core2 Duo E6750
Corsair Twin 800MHz PC6400 2x1GB
Seagate Baracuda SATAII 500GB
Samsung Lightscribe 20x DVD Writer
Thermaltake Mambo Case
Novatech GeForce 8600GTS 512MB PCI-E

All of which can be found on Novatech.co.uk if you need to look up some of the technical specs.

One issue I've already looked in to with this PSU is that it only has 1x PCI-E connector (not great for my SLI-capable motherboard). But the review at PC Perspective stated that it worked fine on a pair of SLI Graphics Cards using a simple cable adapter. [EDIT] Getting another GPU to match the existing one is something that I will probably do in the near future. [/EDIT]

I'd like to undertake some simple overclocking such as the steps outlined in Clunk's guide.

So, what do you reckon then? It's a modern, mid-range gaming system and I have *no idea* what sort of power requirements it will have. I'm hoping some of the more experienced folks out there will be able to give me the benefit of their wisdom.

Thanks,
wingle

p.s.: I had provided some handy URLs to help you guys out but I'm not allowed to post them because I'm new! :O_o1:

450w should be more than enough. just a side note get a 8800gt instead of the 8600gts. it would be more worth while investment than 2 8600gts'

I'd say yes, it should be fine. For reference, I've checked a few reviews and the reported system power consumption is around 200-235 (using a Core 2 Duo @ 3Ghz, 2GB of RAM, give or take). Even with SLi, I don't see it go past 350W.

Wow - Thanks a lot for the fast responses! :) I'm glad to hear that PSU should be suitable. I didn't want to find myself in a situation where the PC worked nicely when I put it together and then packed up when I started tweaking the bus speeds/multipliers!

Regarding the 8800GT - it's £60 more - is it really worth the extra? I just want something that's capable of playing modern games at good resolution but not necessarily with all of the sexy-features turned on.

Again, I'm pretty out of touch with what is required these days so I'd welcome any input you have.
Thanks,
wingle

the 8600 is a poor performer where as the 8800gt has a strong reputation as a very good performer. well worth the extra £60

The 8800GT is about 2-3x the performance of the 8600GTS. Frankly speaking, there is no real need to think 8600GTS SLi.

Then again, if you are running a monitor with a max resolution of 1280x1024 then a single 8600GTS will be fine, particularly if you don't mind losing some AA / AF.

The 8600GTS is on a par with the 7900GT of the previous generation.

A Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R (or other) and a 8800GT I think would be better then getting a SLI board with a 8600GTS thats going to be pointless for SLI if & when you get another one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scrandman

The 8600GTS is on a par with the 7900GT of the previous generation.

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Actually it's around the 7900GS not GT but that said it will be fine at lower res (ie 17"-19" monitors)

The 8800GT would be a far better buy, only problem at the moement is getting hold of one, should be far eaiser in a week or two.

Corsair VX450W has 33A on the single 12v rail and comes with a 5 year guarantee so it will power that system and more with ease. I think it's a good choice for the outlay of @ £45.

As for the 8800GT then it's worth the money. 90%+ of a GTX for half the cost. Also bear in mind any future upgrade you may make to your monitor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scrandman

Then again, if you are running a monitor with a max resolution of 1280x1024 then a single 8600GTS will be fine, particularly if you don't mind losing some AA / AF.

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Depends on the game. For most, you would get 45-ish fps, for some (Oblivion) less than 30fps, a few exceed 60fps (UT3), yet others plain atrocious (World in conflict).

Between the GT and GTX, I took out some numbers from the Firingsquads and found that the difference is about 20% @1900x1200 (resolution relevant to me, and another thread I lost).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TooNice

Depends on the game. For most, you would get 45-ish fps, for some (Oblivion) less than 30fps, a few exceed 60fps (UT3), yet others plain atrocious (World in conflict).

Between the GT and GTX, I took out some numbers from the Firingsquads and found that the difference is about 20% @1900x1200 (resolution relevant to me, and another thread I lost).

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Oblivion isn't a 100fps game on any system I'm aware of - it's just one of those games that plays absolutely fine at 25-30 fps. As for world in conflict, I've only played the demo on a 8600GT and it ticks along just fine @ 1280x1024 with some of the eye candy turned down. The OP already said he was quite prepared to do this. And as for 7900GS & 7900GT, the difference was ~5%, so hardly earth shattering.

Anyway, back OT. To the OP - a quality 450W PSU will be fine. Corsair have a reputation for quality, based on their HX series (520 & 620W) which were manufactured by Seasonic. A word of caution though- I read somewhere that the "cheap" VX series PSUs are made by CWT (read pants), although I've read no reports of duff ones yet.

Edit: I stand corrected - from Yellowbeard (Corsair rep) on another forum:

Just to be clear,the OEMs that build our PSUs are:

HX520 = Seasonic
HX620 = Seasonic
VX450 = Seasonic
VX550 = CWT (Channelwell)
TX650 = Seasonic
TX750 = CWT

So its the 550 & 750 to avoid.

OK - thanks for the responses on the PSU. It seems that everybody agrees that a) this PSU will supply the amount of current required and b) is of decent enough quality that it won't hurt me or my new PC. Great :)

The Graphics Card issue is separate and is something that is making my head hurt. I'm going to be driving the Samsung SM206BW (put 4JPMPZ as a quicklink into dabs.com) so need 1680x1050 Windows Desktop resolution. For games... Obviously the ideal would be this resolution but I don't mind if it ends up as a stretched 1280x1024 or something...

I set a budget for this PC of £500. With the 8600GTS it currently stands at £600. The extra leap to a 8800GT would be great given the improvements you guys claim it will bring but I don't think I can stretch the budget that far... :confused:

Am I going to be able to make games like Command and Conquer 3 look good with the cheaper graphics card? That's the clincher for me... :)

Again, all thoughts and advice welcome. Thanks,
wingle

Ahh well if you're only looking at DX9 games, then an x1950pro might be a better card to look at.
a x1950pro 512mb will set you back around £90 and beats the 8600gts and at the meoment there are no dx10 only games

Presumably I need a DirectX 10 card to run Aero in Vista though do I?

wingle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scrandman

So its the 550 & 750 to avoid.

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Any particular reason? Nothing wrong with Channelwell, and just because Seasonic is the OEM for a brand does not automatically mean any unit produced is top quality.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LuckyNV

Any particular reason? Nothing wrong with Channelwell, and just because Seasonic is the OEM for a brand does not automatically mean any unit produced is top quality.

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Yes - the hundreds of failed Antec PSUs that were manufactured by CWT for a start.

Edit: To the OP - no need for a DX10 card to run Vista Aero. To be honest, if the original DX9 cards were anything to go by, your probably as well waiting for the next gen of DX10 cards. As you are wanting at fairly high resolutions, the X1900 would be the best bang for the buck.

CWT also make the thermaltake Tough power wich is know for it's high quality and reliability.

Many manufactors have both higher quality/performance and lower quality/performance products and I'm pritty sure corsair will monitor the quality of the PSUs

It's why it's not just make but make&model that's important.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scrandman

Oblivion isn't a 100fps game on any system I'm aware of - it's just one of those games that plays absolutely fine at 25-30 fps.

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And where did I claim 100fps in the first place? You may be happy with 25-30fps, and I do not demand 100fps especially if the cost premium is unreasonable. But I do prefer 50-60 to 25-30.

Usually, you pay more than twice the cost for less than twice the performance once you are past mid-range (if not earlier). The 8800GT, if you can find one (main catch IMO), is a big exception to the rule. In most cases, it will get you twice the frame rate for less than twice the cost (even of a X1950 Pro - which I agree is better value than the 8600GTS for most of the time). Unless the PC will only be used for very light gaming, I simply can't justify the 8600GTS over the 8800GT under most circumstances. If anything, the 8800GT will play games at 25-30fps for far longer than the 8600GTS. That's not to say that people who previously bought a 8600GTS should ditch it if they are happy with it. But I do not think it makes sense for anyone to buy it new now.

My stance would be different if the 8600GTS can be had for £70. Maybe about £85 for a X1900XT. At least the cost/performance would be comparable/superior to the 8800GT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scrandman

Yes - the hundreds of failed Antec PSUs that were manufactured by CWT for a start.

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Antec specced cheapy components for those particular PSUs, Corsair spec high quality components for their PSUs, so regardless who manufactures it they will be solid units.

Wingle let me point you in the right direction for a £500 - £600 PC:

Motherboard - XFX 650i Ultra - £54.04
Computer hardware and software at amazing prices, available online from Scan Computers UK

Processor - Core2Duo E6750 (2 x 2.66Ghz) - £115.02
Computer hardware and software at amazing prices, available online from Scan Computers UK

RAM - 2Gb Geil Ultra - £35.24
GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC2-6400C4 800MHz Ultra Low Latency DDR2 Dual Channel Kit (GX22GB6400UDC)

Graphics Card - 8800GT 512Mb - £174.99
Amazon.co.uk: nVidia Inno3D 8800GT 512MB Direct x 10 Graphics Card: Electronics & Photo

DVD Writer - Samsung SH-S203B - £16.61
Computer hardware and software at amazing prices, available online from Scan Computers UK

Hard Drive - Samsung Spinpoint 500Gb Sata2 - £59.99
Samsung SpinPoint HD501LJ 500GB SATAII Hard Drive 16MB Cache - OEM - Ebuyer

Power Supply - Corsair 450W - £43.46
Corsair VX 450W ATX PSU (CMPSU-450VXUK)

Case - Thermaltake Soprano - £46.99
Thermaltake VB1000BNS Soprano SuperMidi Tower - Black (

CPU Cooler - Arctic Cooler 7 Pro - £14.68
Computer hardware and software at amazing prices, available online from Scan Computers UK

Total = £560.92 + £20 to cover postage charges from Overclockers and Scan (free postage from Amazon and Ebuyer)

All items in stock at time of writing. You get:

• The 8800GT
• A motherboard that will overclock your processor to 3.0 to 3.5Ghz without a sweat
• RAM that overclocks to 900DDR easily
• A quiet 500Gb hard drive
• A quiet DVD Writer
• A case which is better than the one you specified originally (next model up in the range)
• The power supply you specified (good choice)
• A good cooler for the processor (don't use the stock one!)

To shave a few quid off swap the ArcticCooling Freezer 7 Pro for the Akasa AK-965
It's basicalyy the same but slightly cheaper and I think it's slightly better too (not seen any direct comparrisons to be sure)

there is a whole core2quad q6600 vs core2duo e6750 atm
I think the basic arguement comedown to this, if you can afford the extra £50 go for the quad, it overclocks well and it's fairly easy to get 3.0ghz out of it. although not much currently uses all 4 core it shouldn;t be too long before games do.

If you are thinking of overclocking then you might want to consider teh e6420, it's basically the same price as the e6750 has a slow FSB and the same multiplier, which means it's actually eaiser to overclock than the e6750.

ALSO I'd strongly sugest swaping that motherboard for something better, the intel p35 chip set is atm the one to go for, the only reason to go for an nvidia chipset is the possibility of sli and that xfx board is NOT sli

Sorry meant to say SLI = pointless for you

I know my stuff, you won't get much better performance for your buck that my spec above.
Q6600 processor, definately worth the extra £50 and will future proof your PC more than the extra £50 you're spending. I personally would go for it and it will be fine with everything i listed above. However I realise you're on a budget and my specification works to that.

Well for good low cost motherboards
Without sli
Computer hardware and software at amazing prices, available online from Scan Computers UK
Gigabyte GA-P35-S3L, iP35 £56.39
the p35 chipset is the best current overclocking chipset and from general reports the current nvidia chipsets are not the best, the only real reason to go for them is SLi

or with sli
Computer hardware and software at amazing prices, available online from Scan Computers UK
Gigabyte GA-N650SLI-DS4L NF650i SLi £59.99

Good choices Pob, I just had one of those XFX boards listed and it's very sexy hence why I specced it, you can also clock the CPU and RAM entirely seperately.

Firstly, thanks to everyone for their replies.

Thanks to cptwhite for a great little shopping list! :) I should have said though... I was including £70 for Vista Home Premium in my £500 budget (£600 spec).

That said, I like your revised list of components, especially with Pob's motherboard alternatives.

CPU - Yeah, I looked into the Q6600 and it'd be great to have but I just can't stretch that far. I told myself up-front: "Take it easy, you're not going out to get all of the coolest stuff you can find just a decent upgrade from your current machine".

As with all the components, it's so easy to say it's worth an extra £20 there, £50 here to improve the "bang-for-buck" but the line has to be drawn somewhere... I've got a wedding to pay for soon! :surprised:

I'll read up on the options that you've all generously put forward tonight.
Thanks again,
wingle

p.s.: I see there's some kind of "thank you" mechanism on this forum. I feel like I should dish some out. How do I make it work?

There's a thank user button listed next to "quote" but there may be a minimum post number before you can use it.

And now I'm going throw you a real curve ball.

An ASRock 4coredual VSTA motherboard.

Some people might say bad things about it but it's still the best motherboard for step by step upgradeing.

The board can use
AGP or PCI-e graphics card
2 sticks of DDR or DDR2 memory (max 667mhz but you can run higher spec sticks at lower settings, I'm running 800mhz memory at 667mhz no problems)
2 SATA and 2 IDE ports (many new boards only have one IDE, so you can keep useing current IDE devices)
socket 775, FSB1066 CPU, includeing core2quad (only a couple of the newer core2duo (1333mhz) cpu's will not work)
Serial and Parallel ports (often overlooked, if you have a parallel printer or a serial device these will have to be replaced as many new board no longer use them)
On sale at Aria for £29.79

The reason I suggest it, is if you cannot afford to upgrade all in one go, you can use this motherboard to spread the cost out, as to start with all you need is the motherboard and a cpu and everything else from you old pc can be reused (well as long as it's not circa 1997)

I'll admit it's pritty pants on the overclocking front.
There is sill plenty of life left in this board, I was a bit worried with the 8800gt compatability, but a solution has been found and there are people running the 8800GT on the ASRock :mrgreen:
If you get one of these you get it for the step by step upgradeing, if your upgradeing everything at once then look at something better.