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Thread: The New Machine

  1. #17
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    Re: The New Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Webby View Post
    If this is a PC to make do until you upgrade completely consider that if you buy an OEM licence for Vista and then change your motherboard when you do a full upgrade you will need to buy a new Vista licence.

    So with that in mind and the fact that you will save more in the long run by buying a few components now that will last you through the next upgrade this is what I would be looking to buy, all prices from Scan.

    CPU: Intel Celeron Duel Core E1200 - £35, Pentium Duel Core E2160 - £44
    Motherboard: Abit IP-35 Dark Raider - £73 (often on Scan today only for ~£60)
    Alternatives with onboard graphics: Gigabyte GA-G33-DS3R - £72 or GA-G33M-DS2R - £66 (µATX)
    Memory: 2GB Corsair PC6400 XMS2 C5 - £33
    Hard Drive: 160GB Samsung Spinpoint T166 - £29
    Graphics card (if required): 8600 GT - £50, 3650 (GDDR3) - £50, 3450 - £30
    Case: Akasa Zen V2 - £30, CoolerMaster RC331 Elite - £26 plus 120mm Fan ~£4
    PSU: XClio 550W Modular - £50, Corsair VX550W - £55
    OS: Vista OEM - £54

    From this you could keep when you upgraded: Case, PSU, Motherboard, Hard Drive, Memory and Vista.

    Total price would depend on what options you picked and if you are willing to wait for items to come up on special offer.

    Obviously the most cost effective method is waiting until you have enough money to get everything you want in one hit.
    Second this. It's a great budget system, use (Abit IP-35 Dark Raider) you will get lots of use out of this and it's going to be upgradable for a fair while. If you can save on your education discount for the OS even better. So much better than an old clonker.

  2. #18
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    Re: The New Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by mediaboy View Post
    Ok.. million dollar quesiton: how do I get the discount?
    I'm definitely in full time education..
    Did a quick google search and this popped up.

    Software4Students | Student discounted software | Discounted Microsoft Office for Students

    The alternative is to go and speak to your IT guy/gal, if at school/college I guess the computer rooms admin person if at Uni then most departments have a person who is responsible for IT or you could go to the computer services department.

    This may be the best option as you may get an even better discounted rate than can be found elsewhere.

    Oh and as was stated before Retail versions of Vista are for use on one single system at a time, but the licence can be transferred between systems as you upgrade.

    EDIT

    As to the graphics cards, the 8600 GT is probably the best for gaming out of the 3 I suggested the 3650 has a better media feature set and the 3450 I suggested only as a stop gap for use until you upgrade to a better gaming card in the future, If you think you can wait a few months and then will have enough money saved for the graphics card you ultimately want to buy then that would make more economic sense. If you are planning on gaming at resolutions at or below 1680*1050 (22" wide screen monitor) then you would probably be happy with 512MB 3850 or 3870, or a 9600GT expect the prices on the ATI cards to drop over the next few weeks as price cuts were announced recently the 3850 can be found for currently for ~£90 and I would have no trouble recommending it to you (in fact I would have if your budget had been ~£400). If you want to go to higher resolutions than 1680*1050 then the 8800 GT 512MB, 8800 GTS 512MB or 3870 X2 would be better options but they all have higher price tags to match the increased performance although the ATI card has just dropped £35 to £235 for the GeCube model.
    Last edited by Webby; 23-02-2008 at 12:24 AM. Reason: Graphics card stuff

  3. #19
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    Re: The New Machine

    8400 for £30?
    8600 for £55?
    Motherboard with onboard 7050 for £40?


    What's best? Is the 8600 worth the £25 jump in price?

    Motherboard: M2N-VM/DVI mATX AM2 nForce 630A 8Gb DDR2 SATAII Raid 4 Port PCI-E x16 GigaBit LAN Audio M2N-VM/DVI - Saverstore.com

    I presume someone will tell me to get the £75 motherboard after posting this...
    I am now considering going for Intel over AMD... everyone seems to think I should, and as everyone at school tells me.. I should go with the flow!

    What's the sort of thing I COULD get (intel/AMD whatever) for ~£300... with intentions to spend maybe another £100-150 on it in the next few months.

    Posting what I could get now, and what upgrades I should then get would be useful

    thanks
    mediaboy
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortune117
    Kids are getting smarter, eventually no amount of parental controls will be able to stop them
    I guess we're expected to do quite well

  4. #20
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    Re: The New Machine

    What's the sort of thing I COULD get (intel/AMD whatever) for ~£300..
    CPU: Intel Celeron Duel Core E1200 - £35, Pentium Duel Core E2160 - £44
    Motherboard: Abit IP-35 Dark Raider - £73
    Memory: 2GB Corsair PC6400 XMS2 C5 - £33
    Hard Drive: 160GB Samsung Spinpoint T166 - £29
    Graphics card (if required): 8600 GT - £50
    Case: Akasa Zen V2 - £30, CoolerMaster RC331 Elite - £26 plus 120mm Fan ~£4
    PSU: XClio 550W Modular - £50, Corsair VX550W - £55
    OS: Vista OEM - £54

    As has been stated but get an old clonker if you want.

  5. #21
    Folding Flunkie Webby's Avatar
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    Re: The New Machine

    If you waited a month would you have a budget of £400?

    The only reason I ask is that it makes more sense to buy what you want to have as a final PC in one go (or getting the pieces over time on offer) rather than spending money now on a component, say graphics card you are not going to need in 2 months when you upgrade it to what you really want.

    If you can see where I am coming from on this then my suggestion for your system would be the following,

    CPU: Intel Duel Core E2160 - £44
    CPU Cooler (optional): Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro - £15
    Motherboard: Abit IP-35 Dark Raider - £73
    Memory: 2GB Corsair XMS2 PC6400 C5 - £33
    Hard Drive: 160GB Samsung Spinpoint T166 - £29
    PSU: 550W XClio Great Power Modular - £52
    Case: CoolerMaster RC331 Elite - £26
    Case Fan (optional but recommended): 120mm Akasa 191, Zalman ZM-F3 or Xigmatek XSF-F1251 - Less than £5
    Graphics Card: Radeon HD 3850 512MB - £102 (prices should be coming down as well)
    OS: Vista 64 OEM - £55 (or cheaper with student discount when you find out how much that is!)

    Total: £434 including optional extras, £414 without.

    Now I know that is more than you have to spend at the moment but (and this is what I would do) if you check Scan Today Only over the next few weeks while you are saving up the rest of the money and if you see one of the components you need (or a better one for less money) then buy it. The Motherboard is often on offer for~£60 (£13 saving) the PSU and CPU are on offer today for savings of £7 and £1(!) respectively. So you could easily knock £40-50 off that price buy careful buying and remember you get free postage from Scan once you have 25 posts Also Vista hopefully will be cheaper for you so you should save a bit more. The most important thing to remember will be to not buy the Graphics card until right at the end as the price drops will come in shortly and you don't want to pay more than you have too

    Of course the alternative to all this piecemeal buying is to wait until you have all the money and then hope that the some of the items you want are on offer when your ready to buy or wait once you have the money for then to be on offer.

    If you really cant wait for everything to be available before you buy then the easiest way to get a full system would be to get the above but not the graphics card and change the motherboard to one of the G33 Gigabyte models (with onboard graphics) I suggested earlier (either the µATX for £66 or ATX for £72) this would bring the price down to £325 (assuming µATX board, £305 without extras) but the gaming potential would be awful until you upgraded to a decent graphics card.
    Last edited by Webby; 23-02-2008 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Added alternatve

  6. #22
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    Re: The New Machine

    Vistsa isn't any cheaper - it's only upgrades... and I will be building up from nothing... unforntunately.

    Might be able to get VAT off though, if I can convince the IT technies to let me buy it through the school.

    Presuming I don't get VAT off, I should hopefully have ~£300 in the next few weeks (selling a P2+P3 computers for £30 and £70 respectively lol) which will let me buy at least some of the parts.

    If I was to buy a 8400 GS Graphics would that by usable until I've got the spare ~£100 to spend? I can get a 8400 for about £25... and I can get that in about an hour (max) from stuff I do for peeps at school.... It's hard to get them to give me too much money though - the most I ever managed to get from one of them in a week was about £75.

    Also got this term's income from other part-time jobs I do coming in, which is about £30-60/term... so that'll go into the fund.

    Hopefully will hit £350.. and if not, I'll hit £300 (at least) so I'll be able to buy the not so good version of it

    Out of interest - I keep on seeing all these people saying that changing my motherboard means I have to buy a new version of windows (OEM.) As I don't wnt to get caught up in piracy laws, or software theft, or end up grounded for the rest of my life () is it worth buying the better motherboard and downgrading something else - like the Processor (next model down) - or should I just wait a bit longer?

    Personal Preference is to spend less on Processor, but doubt I'll be getting much more than about £100-120 in the next couple of weeks.. meaning I'll hit (at most) £280 to spend on a computer.... which is £40 below what you suggested for the lower spec comp
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortune117
    Kids are getting smarter, eventually no amount of parental controls will be able to stop them
    I guess we're expected to do quite well

  7. #23
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    Re: The New Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by mediaboy View Post

    Personal Preference is to spend less on Processor, but doubt I'll be getting much more than about £100-120 in the next couple of weeks.. meaning I'll hit (at most) £280 to spend on a computer.... which is £40 below what you suggested for the lower spec comp
    The E2160 is the cheapest you can get that would work with that board

  8. #24
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    Re: The New Machine

    I look at it like this. With C2D there is a good upgrade path using the same motherboard (if you get the right one). Graphics cards can be swapped at any time for a significant boost in performance. Items you can get dirt cheap, like Optical Drives, KB & Mouse, are not worth worrying about. Items that are quite expensive but don't directly have a big impact on performance, like Monitors, PSUs, cases, HDDs should be changed infrequently, and therefore you should buy with that in mind.

    Motherboards sit somewhere in the middle. Normally you can get a least one decent upgrade without changing the motherboard. What's more it is the guts of the system. Get a bad one, or just one that's missing the right features, and repent at leisure.

    As for motherboards with onboard graphics, basically you have to change the mobo and the graphics when you want to upgrade. The motherboard is not really suitable to base a medium+ system around. That M2N is a micro ATX board, there can be problems fitting it in some cases (probably not the recommended ones though). It's also an older board, which means that it is less likely to support newer chips. You may find it hard to fit your 8800 when you get it. It is not designed as a component in a medium-high end system.

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    Re: The New Machine

    mediaboy, I can see that you are forced to be very carefull on your build price but I would like to say that I think the advice of going for a C2D system is very good for you as it will give an upgrade path that you will be pleased to have in the future.

    AMD may pull a cat out of the bag with a fabulous CPU upgrade for little money but I doubt it, as much as I would like to have competition in the CPU market.

    Upgrading only has a short life mostly and the latest and greatest often needs a full
    Mother Board, CPU, RAM and Graphics Card even a new PSU.

    If you go with the flow, you will be able to get help if you have current items. Plus you may be able to pass them on for a better price than real budget parts that are obsolete quicker. so my advice is as previously posted.

  10. #26
    Salazaar Clone! mediaboy's Avatar
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    Re: The New Machine

    So it's better to go for the mobo over the processor, then update the processor
    when more money comes my way?

    Especially as that IP-35/E2160 is cheaper than the mobo/5200 that I suggested... so I'd be cutting a little more money off of the thing.

    Also - that IP-35 is a newer mobo that'll support newer chips right? It'll let me upgrade more as I go along, and I won't have to dish out so near in the future for a new mobo.

    What Thorsson is seeming to say is: spend more money on a PSU, HD and case, a semi-decent amount on the mobo and whatever you've got left on the rest of it.

    Is this a fair summary?

    Had to laugh earlier when I saw a P4 someone was selling... they were trying to get £200+ for it

    Not sure about exact pricing (can't be bothered to open another window to have a look) but I know you can get them new for around £30-60


    Oh - and how long does Vista Home Basic OEM last for? Until I get a new HD, or a new mobo or what?

    And no, I'm not going to rip off a microsoft technician in Bangladesh or wherever their call centre currently is... so don't suggest it... please.

    And how much does a Quad-Core cost? A friend want's to know, and I keep on getting wildly different answers to it
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortune117
    Kids are getting smarter, eventually no amount of parental controls will be able to stop them
    I guess we're expected to do quite well

  11. #27
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    Re: The New Machine

    I won't have to dish out so near in the future for a new mobo
    If you buy the wrong system you will may "dish out" a lot sooner

    Quad cores are aproximately £150 for Intel, AMD I'm not sure. Suppliers are only a few clicks away...

    "how long does Vista Home Basic OEM last for" Until you upgrade your Mother Board I think, thats not so clear some say its a licence for the system box EULAs are a mystery to me even though I agree to them because I need to use the software. Check with Microsoft or until its obsolete for you of course.

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    Re: The New Machine

    What Thorsson is seeming to say is: spend more money on a PSU, HD and case, a semi-decent amount on the mobo and whatever you've got left on the rest of it.

    Is this a fair summary?
    No seems you have that wrong. You can't put items to price like that.
    Last edited by switchmode; 23-02-2008 at 11:44 PM.

  13. #29
    No-one's Fanboi Thorsson's Avatar
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    Re: The New Machine

    It's not a question of how much you spend so much as getting a good enough quality to last.

    Normally for me cases (like KBs, mice and monitors) will last until I get bored with them, PSUs until they change the power connectors needed, HDDs until they start getting tight on space. I usually change the CPU and the GPU maybe twice with the same mobo.

  14. #30
    Salazaar Clone! mediaboy's Avatar
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    Re: The New Machine

    So what would you say is the single most important thing in a computer - that I spend to get a better quality thing than some of the other parts?

    I'm not saying I'm going to spend £200 on a case and mobo then £10 on a HD or something like that, it's just wondering which item should be best quality, and which can be slightly neglected until I have more money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortune117
    Kids are getting smarter, eventually no amount of parental controls will be able to stop them
    I guess we're expected to do quite well

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    Re: The New Machine

    If I was buying the number one for me would be the bits that might last for another build so: 1: PSU 2: Mother Board. Less Important if money is important now would be CPU, RAM, case, Graphics as these can all be upgraded later.
    I still think what you have been recomended is the best for you. its as low as I would go personally.

  16. #32
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    Re: The New Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by mediaboy View Post
    So what would you say is the single most important thing in a computer - that I spend to get a better quality thing than some of the other parts?

    I'm not saying I'm going to spend £200 on a case and mobo then £10 on a HD or something like that, it's just wondering which item should be best quality, and which can be slightly neglected until I have more money.
    1. PSU. All of us who have been building for years have come to realise that a good PSU is key to a stable computer. Should last for several builds. Buy from a reputable manufacturer, make sure it's future proofed (number and type of connectors, e.g. will it cope with the new PCI-E 8 pin?) and it will last for years. You'll find that the Corsair range (made by Seasonic) is very popular for a reason.

    2. Case. On your budget you will be forced to buy cheap. Normally I would recommend the other way, but tight budgets have their limits. All I would say is get a case with ROOM, and get it with 120mm (or bigger) fans or (better, as you can buy your own) spaces for them. Mind you there are some cases from good manufacturers that are relatively cheap, and IMO it's worth spending that little bit extra. I think it would be worth looking at the XClio range at Scan. Several people have said that these are good. The Xigamek fans are brilliant value.

    3. Motherboard. This is a component you can easily skimp too far. Even more important than the PSU to the overall wellbeing of the computer. You'll find a lot of Abit lovers here (although ASUS and Gigabyte are also popular), and the reasons are simple. Abit have made good products for years, at a fair price. Also you will get good support on these boards. The Abit IP35 series must be one of the most popular motherboard ranges since the (Abit) NF7.

    3. CPU - this is the component we all advise buying at the cheap end. Essentially even the cheapest C2D is a monster, and a monster overclocker.

    4. RAM - decent, branded, PC6400 is so cheap that no one would recommend anything else. Good brands: OCZ, Geil, GSkill, Crucial, Corsair...

    5. GPU - obviously buy cheap as you will be getting a new one soon. The one I recommended earlier was the cheapest one I could find and had the twin benefits of being current generation and passively cooled. I had a look at EBay, but couldn't find anything for less money (once you add in the excessive postage). If you didn't have the 8800 coming, I'd have to say move up the chain a bit (although it wouldn't have to be too far as your monitor is so small).

    6. HDD - the best bang per buck is from 500Gb drives, but they are twice as much as your pick. I would normally advise hitting the sweet spot, but on a budget the 160Gb Samsung is hard to fault and may be adequate if you're not a heavy Torrent user. If you could stretch to a 250Gb drive (Samsung, Western Digital & Seagate are all good) then it would be good. I've already used 136Gb of the drive I got a couple of months ago (and there are no films or even pictures on there).

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