The New Machine

Okaayy....

I recently decided to buy myself a computer. I thought, "Let's go have a look at prebuilt computers and find a cheapish one.... at the local computer shop."

Then I realised that they were vastly overpriced. The computer you could buy for £330 on the web was going for about £450.

So I decided to save up £350 to buy myself a computer. Not a problem.. in about 2 months could do that without breaking a sweat and still have enough left over to go to the cinema the day after.

Alternatively, I could spend about £100 less (occasionally slightly more than £100 less) on buying the parts and just build it myself.

Now, I'm not really one for building computers from scratch. Yes, it's not beyond me to plug in a Hard Drive, or install and operating system, but the biggest thing I'd handled was a 8GB hard drive and 256mb of RAM... and a 20x DVD Drive which I pirated off of a computer someone gave me.

Anyway, I thought "ARGH!!! I'm not sure if I can build it!"

So I looked for help. And I found it. Turns out it's not too hard to build yourself a computer... just takes a bit of time, money, sweat, blood and hopefully not body parts.

So I've saved up about £200-300 (not sure of exact amount... selling couple of old computers in a few days for varying amounts, and using this to finance buying a bigger and better one :) )

Here's what I thought I might buy... any ideas and so on would be nice... along with how to get them cheaper than what I've got down on this list.

GA-MA69VM-S2 Motherboard (onboard Radeon X1200) £31.89
AMD Athlon 5200+ Processor £62.66
2x1GB 800mhz Kingston RAM £30.53
160GB Seagate Barracuda Hard Drive £28.66
Vista Home Premium £58.17
4x80mm Akasa Fan £11.94
Case w/ 400W PSU £23.49

Total (inc VAT): £268.12
Delievery: £9.98
Total (inc Delivery/VAT): About £280.


I'm sure you can think of at least two ways of either improving it, or cutting down on the price of it!

Any ideas at all would be nice! Shout them out.. and don't forget that the maximum I'm spending on this particular machine is only £300!


The last forum I posted this on they immediately said to spend about £250 on a CPU, £100 on a Graphics Card and the rest of it on everything else.

Looking for advice,

mediaboy

Im pretty sure everyone will recommend you go down the intel core 2 duo route, Its just better than amd's offerings. The pentium dual cores are your best bet:

Computer hardware and software at amazing prices, available online from Scan Computers UK

Using the stock cooler (to save money) these will overclock to at least 2.4GHz with volts within warranty limits.

Obviously you would need an intel motherboard too, something like this might be ok and allow some overclocking:

Computer hardware and software at amazing prices, available online from Scan Computers UK

Someone else might be able to recommend a better mobo but that chip is probably you best bang for buck.

Id also recommend getting a psu from a reputable manufacturer not a generic one, you wouldnt want a cheap psu to destroy your whole system. Get a case with built in fans to save money eg. akasa zen

Sorry, just realised that mobo doesnt have onboard graphics, maybe something like:

Computer hardware and software at amazing prices, available online from Scan Computers UK
OR
Computer hardware and software at amazing prices, available online from Scan Computers UK

Also i remember seeing some cheap case+psu combos from coolermaster on ebuyer that might be suitable:

Coolermaster Elite 330 Black Case With CM eXtreme Power 460W PSU *SPECIAL OFFER* - Ebuyer

im not to certain with kingston but i think corsair/crucial ram is better, you can grab a 2x1gb set of corsair cas4 for £35 from scan. Imo amd's dual cores are great for the budget, intel are offering more the high budget end etc. Get 64bit vista because its better so i hear and actually benefits in dx10 more.

Delivery should be free for you, link your account to hexus one and get 25posts(really easy).

£250 for a cpu? insane xD i spent £128 on my e8400 and i think tbh its just too expensive.

Do you game more then anything else? if so what games do you want/normally play? that will give you a better answer as different spec=different tasks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flewis

Im pretty sure everyone will recommend you go down the intel core 2 duo route, Its just better than amd's offerings. The pentium dual cores are your best bet:

(url removed)

Using the stock cooler (to save money) these will overclock to at least 2.4GHz with volts within warranty limits.

Obviously you would need an intel motherboard too, something like this might be ok and allow some overclocking:

(url removed)

Someone else might be able to recommend a better mobo but that chip is probably you best bang for buck.

Id also recommend getting a psu from a reputable manufacturer not a generic one, you wouldnt want a cheap psu to destroy your whole system. Get a case with built in fans to save money eg. akasa zen

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lol... OC to 2.4ghz? the 5200+ is already at 2.6ghz... and it only costs £20 more. Add on to the 5200+ another 1mb of cache (the Intel one you suggested only has 1mb, and the 5200+ has 2mb) and the 5200+ is still looking better :)

Besides I've heard : -
...that Intel isn't so good for gaming - true/false?
...that AMD is slightly cheaper for the same specs - true/false?
...that in the next 6 months I'd have to upgrade my specs - true/false?
...that in the next 12 months I'll be buying everything but a new processor - true/false?


This is a mid-range computer.. budget as well. If Intel/AMD are the same for gaming and the motherboard's cost about the same, then I might go down the Intel route.. and add £5 onto postage charges because I'll be buying from another site...

...that Intel isn't so good for gaming - true/false?

Im pretty sure this isnt the case, but it doesnt look like ur building a gaming pc as your using onboard graphics. This will struggle with anything u throw at it

...that AMD is slightly cheaper for the same specs - true/false?

Sort of, if you dont overclock. The 2160 could easily get to 3GHz. Also clock for clock the intel is much faster. 2.4GHz was a very low estimate of what the chip could do and even at 2.4GHz id rather have the intel. I dont think you will get much more clock speed out of the 5200 as they run rather hot.

...that in the next 6 months I'd have to upgrade my specs - true/false?

Depends what u want to do with it, without a graphics card u wont be gaming but as an office pc it would be fine.

...that in the next 12 months I'll be buying everything but a new processor - true/false?

again personal preference.

Quote:

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"that Intel isn't so good for gaming - true/false?" and "...that in the next 6 months I'd have to upgrade my specs - true/false?"

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Sorry but this makes no sence to me, you want to spec a cheap system with onboard graphics to play games and expect it to be up there In six months time. It will not be hot stuff now never mind 6 months.

I suggest, state what you want the machine to do and some kind person will give you a machine at a value point to meet that. intel or AMD. Remember you get what you pay for cheap isn't always value.

switchmode is right. You need to say what you want to use the machine for (and if games, what games).

Certainly if you want to game then the emphasis has to be on the video card, but there are a few things I can say about your original thoughts:

Don't skimp too much on the PSU. Cheap ones have a habit of blowing up and are often the cause of instabilities. While there are 1 or 2 case/PSU combos that are OK (like the Antec NSK4400 if you can find one), if you're strapped for cash you'd be better off skimping on the case rather than the PSU. But something like this combo is about the minimum:
Computer hardware and software at amazing prices, available online from Scan Computers UK
Computer hardware and software at amazing prices, available online from Scan Computers UK

Don't buy 80mm fans - they are very noisy and don't move much air. 120mm FTW.

I'd probably stay away from Vista on this budget. Also EBay is quite good for picking up cheap OS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flewis

Also i remember seeing some cheap case+psu combos from coolermaster on ebuyer that might be suitable:

Coolermaster Elite 330 Black Case With CM eXtreme Power 460W PSU *SPECIAL OFFER* - Ebuyer

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Now the problem I have with that is that the PSU can be bought separately in the US for $29. Coolermaster don't make PSUs, just re-brand them. This price would make me nervous about who made it, and the quality of the components.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thorsson

switchmode is right. You need to say what you want to use the machine for (and if games, what games).

Certainly if you want to game then the emphasis has to be on the video card, but there are a few things I can say about your original thoughts:

Don't skimp too much on the PSU. Cheap ones have a habit of blowing up and are often the cause of instabilities. While there are 1 or 2 case/PSU combos that are OK (like the Antec NSK4400 if you can find one), if you're strapped for cash you'd be better off skimping on the case rather than the PSU. But something like this combo is about the minimum:
Computer hardware and software at amazing prices, available online from Scan Computers UK
Computer hardware and software at amazing prices, available online from Scan Computers UK

Don't buy 80mm fans - they are very noisy and don't move much air. 120mm FTW.

I'd probably stay away from Vista on this budget. Also EBay is quite good for picking up cheap OS.

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Case only fits 4 80mm fans... else I'd be using bigger ones :P
Not that bigger=better mind.

This comp is only for the next few months till I've got the money to up the vid/graphics card to something alright.

I was planning on (in the next 6 months) grabbing a 24" monitor and a GeForce 8800 from a friend whose busy saving up for his new computer.... which is on his own, basically limitless, funding (he's got about £2K to spend on the comp already... I think he's trying to save up for an Alienware, despite me pointing out you can buy the parts for Alienware elsewhere - or equivalents for them...)

Also, I was planning on using this comp as a LAN party comp - something to drag around... already have a PC carrybag, with all the necessary pockets 'n' stuff, so I've got ways of carting it round. Will the onboard card work alright with a 14" LCD Flatscreen? All I've got at the minute, but might be getting a 15" LCD off of the local recycling group (who give away stuff for free... that they pick up off of other people.)

EVENTUALLY It'll be used for gaming. At the minute, with the current specs, just about everything else I use comps for... word processing, slideshows, schoolwork - nothing too demanding in other words.

Oh - and I'm a UKian... not wanting to pay shipping charges for buying stuff from the US :P

I was going to go look at OS on eBay... but not sure if they'll work - after being installed on a different computer already.. Anyone know what the limits are for number of OS installs you get from one disk? Also don't trust eBay lots, so not wanting to spend £30 and it turn out to be nothing but a case or picture.

Hopefully getting my friend's spare Vista Home Basic 32bit to use for the meantime, which will be useful (saving me £60 for the moment) but will get Premium 64bit ASAP... like - as soon as I've got more money to spend!

If you haven't already picked up on it... I'm the sort of person that takes EVERYTHING computer-based or relating to computer's that my friends are either throwing out, or don't want. I then upgrade them slightly and sell them on for a profit of £30-50.... the profit then pays for the next decent computer. most of the stuff in my current computers is taken from friends (mouse/keyboard/monitor/network card/vid card/casing/PSU/motherboard and most the software) and it cost me about £20 to buy all of it. I'm selling the same comp on for about £70 :D

If 2.4ghz is minimum after OC, what's max... without running too much risk of everything blowing up in my face and costing me £300?

In the case of fans (pardon the pun) bigger IS better. That's why I'm saying get a case that takes 120mm fans. Two will be enough, and many cases come with 1 or (preferably) two pre-fitted.

If you are going to get an 8800 in future then you could get a mobo with onboard graphics, but I'd suggest rather getting a decent mobo and a cheap (maybe EBay) graphics card.

Buying an OS on EBay is like buying anything else on EBay. Buy from people with good scores, read the description carefully, and ask questions. You don't want to buy an OS that has already been activated. You are aware that OEM versions cannot be transferred from one computer (seemingly defined as a motherboard) to another?

There is a question of whether you buy all cheap parts now and then upgrade them all later, or buy some components that will last you through. My advice would be to get a decent motherboard & PSU, (I would say Case too, but your budget is limited), and as cheap a CPU & GPU as you can. You have the graphics covered, and CPU bang per buck is always improving. DDR2 RAM is so cheap that either strategy is OK, but I'd tend to get 'named' PC6400. Your HDD choice is probably adequate for some time.

So I'd say go with something like the Abit Dark Raider, paired with an E2160, comes to about £115.

Maybe a slightly more powerful PSU, like this one: Computer hardware and software at amazing prices, available online from Scan Computers UK

For Graphics, this is very cheap, but still better than onboard: Computer hardware and software at amazing prices, available online from Scan Computers UK

I think you could come in around your budget of £300, and not have to upgrade everything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mediaboy

This is a mid-range computer.. budget as well.

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depends upon your pov obviously but lots of here would say that it isn't (although it'll do all your office type tasks no problem).
& at the bottom end it's often hard to beat Dell for value simply because of their massive purchasing power for components & software.
Of course it won't be much good for overclocking because it will have a neutered BIOS but so far oc'ing doesn't seem to be your thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flewis

I dont think you will get much more clock speed out of the 5200 as they run rather hot.

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should do ~3.2GHz with decent cooling.

If this is a PC to make do until you upgrade completely consider that if you buy an OEM licence for Vista and then change your motherboard when you do a full upgrade you will need to buy a new Vista licence.

So with that in mind and the fact that you will save more in the long run by buying a few components now that will last you through the next upgrade this is what I would be looking to buy, all prices from Scan.

CPU: Intel Celeron Duel Core E1200 - £35, Pentium Duel Core E2160 - £44
Motherboard: Abit IP-35 Dark Raider - £73 (often on Scan today only for ~£60)
Alternatives with onboard graphics: Gigabyte GA-G33-DS3R - £72 or GA-G33M-DS2R - £66 (µATX)
Memory: 2GB Corsair PC6400 XMS2 C5 - £33
Hard Drive: 160GB Samsung Spinpoint T166 - £29
Graphics card (if required): 8600 GT - £50, 3650 (GDDR3) - £50, 3450 - £30
Case: Akasa Zen V2 - £30, CoolerMaster RC331 Elite - £26 plus 120mm Fan ~£4
PSU: XClio 550W Modular - £50, Corsair VX550W - £55
OS: Vista OEM - £54

From this you could keep when you upgraded: Case, PSU, Motherboard, Hard Drive, Memory and Vista.

Total price would depend on what options you picked and if you are willing to wait for items to come up on special offer.

Obviously the most cost effective method is waiting until you have enough money to get everything you want in one hit.

So that'd be 'bout £300-350 (got a headache else would be able to get it exactly right)... so about another 2 months saving....

Out of interest - if I decided to go for a non-OEM version of Vista would it install on multiple computers? If so - how many would it install on? Also - what's the main difference between the different graphics card, and how would it influence what sort of res I'd be using?

Non-OEM Windows can be moved from one computer to another. You can't use it on two different computers at the same time. If you have an existing OS (maybe one of your friends has a spare XP) then you can buy the Upgrade version, which is exactly the same but costs less. Also if you are in full time education you can get Vista at a discount.

Ok.. million dollar quesiton: how do I get the discount?
I'm definitely in full time education..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Webby

If this is a PC to make do until you upgrade completely consider that if you buy an OEM licence for Vista and then change your motherboard when you do a full upgrade you will need to buy a new Vista licence.

So with that in mind and the fact that you will save more in the long run by buying a few components now that will last you through the next upgrade this is what I would be looking to buy, all prices from Scan.

CPU: Intel Celeron Duel Core E1200 - £35, Pentium Duel Core E2160 - £44
Motherboard: Abit IP-35 Dark Raider - £73 (often on Scan today only for ~£60)
Alternatives with onboard graphics: Gigabyte GA-G33-DS3R - £72 or GA-G33M-DS2R - £66 (µATX)
Memory: 2GB Corsair PC6400 XMS2 C5 - £33
Hard Drive: 160GB Samsung Spinpoint T166 - £29
Graphics card (if required): 8600 GT - £50, 3650 (GDDR3) - £50, 3450 - £30
Case: Akasa Zen V2 - £30, CoolerMaster RC331 Elite - £26 plus 120mm Fan ~£4
PSU: XClio 550W Modular - £50, Corsair VX550W - £55
OS: Vista OEM - £54

From this you could keep when you upgraded: Case, PSU, Motherboard, Hard Drive, Memory and Vista.

Total price would depend on what options you picked and if you are willing to wait for items to come up on special offer.

Obviously the most cost effective method is waiting until you have enough money to get everything you want in one hit.

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Second this. It's a great budget system, use (Abit IP-35 Dark Raider) you will get lots of use out of this and it's going to be upgradable for a fair while. If you can save on your education discount for the OS even better. So much better than an old clonker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mediaboy

Ok.. million dollar quesiton: how do I get the discount?
I'm definitely in full time education..

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Did a quick google search and this popped up.

Software4Students | Student discounted software | Discounted Microsoft Office for Students

The alternative is to go and speak to your IT guy/gal, if at school/college I guess the computer rooms admin person if at Uni then most departments have a person who is responsible for IT or you could go to the computer services department.

This may be the best option as you may get an even better discounted rate than can be found elsewhere.

Oh and as was stated before Retail versions of Vista are for use on one single system at a time, but the licence can be transferred between systems as you upgrade.

EDIT

As to the graphics cards, the 8600 GT is probably the best for gaming out of the 3 I suggested the 3650 has a better media feature set and the 3450 I suggested only as a stop gap for use until you upgrade to a better gaming card in the future, If you think you can wait a few months and then will have enough money saved for the graphics card you ultimately want to buy then that would make more economic sense. If you are planning on gaming at resolutions at or below 1680*1050 (22" wide screen monitor) then you would probably be happy with 512MB 3850 or 3870, or a 9600GT expect the prices on the ATI cards to drop over the next few weeks as price cuts were announced recently the 3850 can be found for currently for ~£90 and I would have no trouble recommending it to you (in fact I would have if your budget had been ~£400). If you want to go to higher resolutions than 1680*1050 then the 8800 GT 512MB, 8800 GTS 512MB or 3870 X2 would be better options but they all have higher price tags to match the increased performance although the ATI card has just dropped £35 to £235 for the GeCube model.

8400 for £30?
8600 for £55?
Motherboard with onboard 7050 for £40?


What's best? Is the 8600 worth the £25 jump in price?

Motherboard: M2N-VM/DVI mATX AM2 nForce 630A 8Gb DDR2 SATAII Raid 4 Port PCI-E x16 GigaBit LAN Audio M2N-VM/DVI - Saverstore.com

I presume someone will tell me to get the £75 motherboard after posting this...
I am now considering going for Intel over AMD... everyone seems to think I should, and as everyone at school tells me.. I should go with the flow! :rolleyes:

What's the sort of thing I COULD get (intel/AMD whatever) for ~£300... with intentions to spend maybe another £100-150 on it in the next few months.

Posting what I could get now, and what upgrades I should then get would be useful :)

thanks :)
mediaboy

Quote:

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What's the sort of thing I COULD get (intel/AMD whatever) for ~£300..

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CPU: Intel Celeron Duel Core E1200 - £35, Pentium Duel Core E2160 - £44
Motherboard: Abit IP-35 Dark Raider - £73
Memory: 2GB Corsair PC6400 XMS2 C5 - £33
Hard Drive: 160GB Samsung Spinpoint T166 - £29
Graphics card (if required): 8600 GT - £50
Case: Akasa Zen V2 - £30, CoolerMaster RC331 Elite - £26 plus 120mm Fan ~£4
PSU: XClio 550W Modular - £50, Corsair VX550W - £55
OS: Vista OEM - £54

As has been stated but get an old clonker if you want.

If you waited a month would you have a budget of £400?

The only reason I ask is that it makes more sense to buy what you want to have as a final PC in one go (or getting the pieces over time on offer) rather than spending money now on a component, say graphics card you are not going to need in 2 months when you upgrade it to what you really want.

If you can see where I am coming from on this then my suggestion for your system would be the following,

CPU: Intel Duel Core E2160 - £44
CPU Cooler (optional): Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro - £15
Motherboard: Abit IP-35 Dark Raider - £73
Memory: 2GB Corsair XMS2 PC6400 C5 - £33
Hard Drive: 160GB Samsung Spinpoint T166 - £29
PSU: 550W XClio Great Power Modular - £52
Case: CoolerMaster RC331 Elite - £26
Case Fan (optional but recommended): 120mm Akasa 191, Zalman ZM-F3 or Xigmatek XSF-F1251 - Less than £5
Graphics Card: Radeon HD 3850 512MB - £102 (prices should be coming down as well)
OS: Vista 64 OEM - £55 (or cheaper with student discount when you find out how much that is!)

Total: £434 including optional extras, £414 without.

Now I know that is more than you have to spend at the moment but (and this is what I would do) if you check Scan Today Only over the next few weeks while you are saving up the rest of the money and if you see one of the components you need (or a better one for less money) then buy it. The Motherboard is often on offer for~£60 (£13 saving) the PSU and CPU are on offer today for savings of £7 and £1(!) respectively. So you could easily knock £40-50 off that price buy careful buying and remember you get free postage from Scan once you have 25 posts ;) Also Vista hopefully will be cheaper for you so you should save a bit more. The most important thing to remember will be to not buy the Graphics card until right at the end as the price drops will come in shortly and you don't want to pay more than you have too ;)

Of course the alternative to all this piecemeal buying is to wait until you have all the money and then hope that the some of the items you want are on offer when your ready to buy or wait once you have the money for then to be on offer.

If you really cant wait for everything to be available before you buy then the easiest way to get a full system would be to get the above but not the graphics card and change the motherboard to one of the G33 Gigabyte models (with onboard graphics) I suggested earlier (either the µATX for £66 or ATX for £72) this would bring the price down to £325 (assuming µATX board, £305 without extras) but the gaming potential would be awful until you upgraded to a decent graphics card.

Vistsa isn't any cheaper - it's only upgrades... and I will be building up from nothing... unforntunately.

Might be able to get VAT off though, if I can convince the IT technies to let me buy it through the school.

Presuming I don't get VAT off, I should hopefully have ~£300 in the next few weeks (selling a P2+P3 computers for £30 and £70 respectively lol) which will let me buy at least some of the parts.

If I was to buy a 8400 GS Graphics would that by usable until I've got the spare ~£100 to spend? I can get a 8400 for about £25... and I can get that in about an hour (max) from stuff I do for peeps at school.... It's hard to get them to give me too much money though - the most I ever managed to get from one of them in a week was about £75.

Also got this term's income from other part-time jobs I do coming in, which is about £30-60/term... so that'll go into the fund.

Hopefully will hit £350.. and if not, I'll hit £300 (at least) so I'll be able to buy the not so good version of it :D

Out of interest - I keep on seeing all these people saying that changing my motherboard means I have to buy a new version of windows (OEM.) As I don't wnt to get caught up in piracy laws, or software theft, or end up grounded for the rest of my life (;)) is it worth buying the better motherboard and downgrading something else - like the Processor (next model down) - or should I just wait a bit longer?

Personal Preference is to spend less on Processor, but doubt I'll be getting much more than about £100-120 in the next couple of weeks.. meaning I'll hit (at most) £280 to spend on a computer.... which is £40 below what you suggested for the lower spec comp :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mediaboy

Personal Preference is to spend less on Processor, but doubt I'll be getting much more than about £100-120 in the next couple of weeks.. meaning I'll hit (at most) £280 to spend on a computer.... which is £40 below what you suggested for the lower spec comp :P

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The E2160 is the cheapest you can get that would work with that board

I look at it like this. With C2D there is a good upgrade path using the same motherboard (if you get the right one). Graphics cards can be swapped at any time for a significant boost in performance. Items you can get dirt cheap, like Optical Drives, KB & Mouse, are not worth worrying about. Items that are quite expensive but don't directly have a big impact on performance, like Monitors, PSUs, cases, HDDs should be changed infrequently, and therefore you should buy with that in mind.

Motherboards sit somewhere in the middle. Normally you can get a least one decent upgrade without changing the motherboard. What's more it is the guts of the system. Get a bad one, or just one that's missing the right features, and repent at leisure.

As for motherboards with onboard graphics, basically you have to change the mobo and the graphics when you want to upgrade. The motherboard is not really suitable to base a medium+ system around. That M2N is a micro ATX board, there can be problems fitting it in some cases (probably not the recommended ones though). It's also an older board, which means that it is less likely to support newer chips. You may find it hard to fit your 8800 when you get it. It is not designed as a component in a medium-high end system.

mediaboy, I can see that you are forced to be very carefull on your build price but I would like to say that I think the advice of going for a C2D system is very good for you as it will give an upgrade path that you will be pleased to have in the future.

AMD may pull a cat out of the bag with a fabulous CPU upgrade for little money but I doubt it, as much as I would like to have competition in the CPU market.

Upgrading only has a short life mostly and the latest and greatest often needs a full
Mother Board, CPU, RAM and Graphics Card even a new PSU.

If you go with the flow, you will be able to get help if you have current items. Plus you may be able to pass them on for a better price than real budget parts that are obsolete quicker. so my advice is as previously posted.

So it's better to go for the mobo over the processor, then update the processor
when more money comes my way?

Especially as that IP-35/E2160 is cheaper than the mobo/5200 that I suggested... so I'd be cutting a little more money off of the thing.

Also - that IP-35 is a newer mobo that'll support newer chips right? It'll let me upgrade more as I go along, and I won't have to dish out so near in the future for a new mobo.

What Thorsson is seeming to say is: spend more money on a PSU, HD and case, a semi-decent amount on the mobo and whatever you've got left on the rest of it.

Is this a fair summary?

Had to laugh earlier when I saw a P4 someone was selling... they were trying to get £200+ for it :P

Not sure about exact pricing (can't be bothered to open another window to have a look) but I know you can get them new for around £30-60 :)


Oh - and how long does Vista Home Basic OEM last for? Until I get a new HD, or a new mobo or what?

And no, I'm not going to rip off a microsoft technician in Bangladesh or wherever their call centre currently is... so don't suggest it... please.

And how much does a Quad-Core cost? A friend want's to know, and I keep on getting wildly different answers to it :(

Quote:

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I won't have to dish out so near in the future for a new mobo

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If you buy the wrong system you will may "dish out" a lot sooner :)

Quad cores are aproximately £150 for Intel, AMD I'm not sure. Suppliers are only a few clicks away...

"how long does Vista Home Basic OEM last for" Until you upgrade your Mother Board I think, thats not so clear some say its a licence for the system box EULAs are a mystery to me even though I agree to them because I need to use the software. Check with Microsoft or until its obsolete for you of course.

Quote:

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What Thorsson is seeming to say is: spend more money on a PSU, HD and case, a semi-decent amount on the mobo and whatever you've got left on the rest of it.

Is this a fair summary?

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No seems you have that wrong. You can't put items to price like that.

It's not a question of how much you spend so much as getting a good enough quality to last.

Normally for me cases (like KBs, mice and monitors) will last until I get bored with them, PSUs until they change the power connectors needed, HDDs until they start getting tight on space. I usually change the CPU and the GPU maybe twice with the same mobo.

So what would you say is the single most important thing in a computer - that I spend to get a better quality thing than some of the other parts?

I'm not saying I'm going to spend £200 on a case and mobo then £10 on a HD or something like that, it's just wondering which item should be best quality, and which can be slightly neglected until I have more money.

If I was buying the number one for me would be the bits that might last for another build so: 1: PSU 2: Mother Board. Less Important if money is important now would be CPU, RAM, case, Graphics as these can all be upgraded later.
I still think what you have been recomended is the best for you. its as low as I would go personally.

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Originally Posted by mediaboy

So what would you say is the single most important thing in a computer - that I spend to get a better quality thing than some of the other parts?

I'm not saying I'm going to spend £200 on a case and mobo then £10 on a HD or something like that, it's just wondering which item should be best quality, and which can be slightly neglected until I have more money.

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1. PSU. All of us who have been building for years have come to realise that a good PSU is key to a stable computer. Should last for several builds. Buy from a reputable manufacturer, make sure it's future proofed (number and type of connectors, e.g. will it cope with the new PCI-E 8 pin?) and it will last for years. You'll find that the Corsair range (made by Seasonic) is very popular for a reason.

2. Case. On your budget you will be forced to buy cheap. Normally I would recommend the other way, but tight budgets have their limits. All I would say is get a case with ROOM, and get it with 120mm (or bigger) fans or (better, as you can buy your own) spaces for them. Mind you there are some cases from good manufacturers that are relatively cheap, and IMO it's worth spending that little bit extra. I think it would be worth looking at the XClio range at Scan. Several people have said that these are good. The Xigamek fans are brilliant value.

3. Motherboard. This is a component you can easily skimp too far. Even more important than the PSU to the overall wellbeing of the computer. You'll find a lot of Abit lovers here (although ASUS and Gigabyte are also popular), and the reasons are simple. Abit have made good products for years, at a fair price. Also you will get good support on these boards. The Abit IP35 series must be one of the most popular motherboard ranges since the (Abit) NF7.

3. CPU - this is the component we all advise buying at the cheap end. Essentially even the cheapest C2D is a monster, and a monster overclocker.

4. RAM - decent, branded, PC6400 is so cheap that no one would recommend anything else. Good brands: OCZ, Geil, GSkill, Crucial, Corsair...

5. GPU - obviously buy cheap as you will be getting a new one soon. The one I recommended earlier was the cheapest one I could find and had the twin benefits of being current generation and passively cooled. I had a look at EBay, but couldn't find anything for less money (once you add in the excessive postage). If you didn't have the 8800 coming, I'd have to say move up the chain a bit (although it wouldn't have to be too far as your monitor is so small).

6. HDD - the best bang per buck is from 500Gb drives, but they are twice as much as your pick. I would normally advise hitting the sweet spot, but on a budget the 160Gb Samsung is hard to fault and may be adequate if you're not a heavy Torrent user. If you could stretch to a 250Gb drive (Samsung, Western Digital & Seagate are all good) then it would be good. I've already used 136Gb of the drive I got a couple of months ago (and there are no films or even pictures on there).

Thank you all... With any luck I'll be able to buy most of what you've suggested (certainly that PSU and Motherboard advice is useful, and will be followed) within the next few weeks (4 weeks till payday...)

I can get PC-6400 RAM cheaper at my local store than on the internet for some reason (not sure why) so I'll be making a small saving there, and possibly a larger saving on the GPU (although will be buying a 8400 to stick in the computer I'm nicking the 8800 out of)

HDDs are never a problem for me.. I generally keep my HD current, with only what I need on it. Cleaning it once a week is normal, and it gets wiped (down to OS + other liscensed software) about once a month to stop my HD from overcrowding itself...

Be nice having a HD 20-40 times larger than my current one though, so maybe won't need wiping at all, and cleaning so often...

Nice having a better GPU as well (sitting on a 32mb Matrox atm, which is going for £30 to someone... which is what i'm buying the 256mb 8400 for) and it'll be nice to utilize some more monitor space than usual...

Is it worth getting two GPUs at somepoint and doubling up my monitors? Will have at least two monitors, (possibly three) to use over 2 computers, of which one of them won't be in use continuously (only when I've got a friend round, or at LAN parties or whatever), so will be able to use two monitors if needed.

Also - did you know that Scan isn't the cheapest site out there for some parts? GPUs and DDR2 RAM (below PC-6400) is cheaper elsewhere, and 160GB HDD can be found for up to £5 cheaper... although the postage charges on the other sites often cancel out whatever bargains you get!


Did someone mention free postage from Scan when I hit 25+ posts? or is that just something I misread?

Thats right once you get 25 constructive posts - so no spamming - you will be eligible for free postage. The reason I used Scan for all my pricing is it is easily navigated and generally the prices are very competitive especially when you factor in free postage. You will also need to check Scan's Today Only section as this is where you will find the bargains that could knock up to 20% off the price of the total build and with free postage you don't waste money buying it a piece at a time ;) you do need to make up orders of >£20 excluding VAT (so £23.50 including VAT) to qualify for free shipping though so keep this in mind.

more than £20? not a problem lol :d

thanks again for all your help... If I need anymore help (when I've got enough money to burn... or anything else like that) I'll start a new topic :)