does amd 3000+ 200mhz exist?!?

[daz_uk]

so froim the numbers i posted , u know that this chip is unlocked so i can change the multiplier and frequency?
but as i said in my previous post, my 2700+ barfs when it gets to 180 fsb. I'd hate for this one fail the leap from 166 - 200 when the 200 one I ordered STARTS on 200.

Sorry for being dense, ive only recently got into mild overclocking and I generally know what I'm doing but because this isn't for me - i wanna get the best results... I mean overclocking the chip fromm 166 - 200 will make it run HOTTER than the one that STARTS at 200 right?

chips these days aren't unlocked... so when you get one which is unlocked hold onto it with your dear life... if it's a crap clocker you can always sell it. That's if you want to overclock it. You will need some reasonable memory to hit higher than 200Mhz fsb though

[malfunction]

sp your saying in the BIOS that I would set the fsb to 200 (400 in effect) instead of 166 (333) and it will hold steady?

The thing is, my own machine is a 2700+ (not sure if its unlocked actually) but I know that when i raise the fsb past 180 it throws a wobbly. I got a soltek 75-frn and i can change the fsb and memory speed indepently so i left the ram at 333 (co its only 2700 stuff) and still when i set the FSB higher than 180 it barfed on me....thats why ive got concern that this 3000+ 333 chip will be inferior to the 3000+ 400fs as standard chip....

what u say?

It might be that your motherboard, RAM or just current CPU isn't stable with a high FSB. Is the mobo nForce2 or nForce2 400? I.e. is the mobo certified for 400MHz? Also without the RAM running at 200Mhz there's no point in increasing the FSB to that level - unless the RAM and FSB are in sync you'll get a performance hit (as you mentioned earlier). Also I'm presuming that you've tried increasing vcore / vdimm as you overclock (and the chipset voltage if you can)... All of these things may help you go higher. You may well find that your RAM will overclock to 3200 / 200MHz if you increase vdimm and / or lower the timings (by which I mean higher numbers - higher latency) though if you have to back off on the timings too much you may not get much benefit from the higher frequency.

[daz_uk]

yeah Mal, i tried all that stuff (thx for the advice though). In the end I got the best results from upping both my fsb and ram to 175 and it holds stable 24/7. this gives me a nice boost.
Although technically the 333 on my 2700+ is the same as the 3000+ for my brother i just bought which is why im concerned that i couldnt get my 2700+ 333 past the 180 mark...
Ok, sod E-Buyer, I will try to build it anyway and see what happens, if its cack then I will clean it up and return it anyway.

Cheers

[sputnik found]

my amd A64 xp3000 is 10X200

[bigZ]

so froim the numbers i posted , u know that this chip is unlocked so i can change the multiplier and frequency?
but as i said in my previous post, my 2700+ barfs when it gets to 180 fsb. I'd hate for this one fail the leap from 166 - 200 when the 200 one I ordered STARTS on 200.

Sorry for being dense, ive only recently got into mild overclocking and I generally know what I'm doing but because this isn't for me - i wanna get the best results... I mean overclocking the chip fromm 166 - 200 will make it run HOTTER than the one that STARTS at 200 right?

not necessarily or not as much as you'd think, my 2500+ ran at 2200Mhz (11x200) at default vCore. If you drop the mult and increase the fsb, you're not going to gain a lot of heat, you only start to gain huge heat when you start to increase the actual internal clock of the processor as well as it's voltage. If your processor didn't run 11x200 at default vCore, i'd be a little worried tbh.

[daz_uk]

Thanks mate, although it seems now that E-Buyer have cancelled the processor from the order for a refund so i can re-order it... hmm. thats a problem seeing as I was maybe gonna keep it on your advice now!!

bum. dunno what to do now

not necessarily or not as much as you'd think, my 2500+ ran at 2200Mhz (11x200) at default vCore. If you drop the mult and increase the fsb, you're not going to gain a lot of heat, you only start to gain huge heat when you start to increase the actual internal clock of the processor as well as it's voltage. If your processor didn't run 11x200 at default vCore, i'd be a little worried tbh.

[daz_uk]

Hi, I hope someone from yesterday is reading this. I built the machine last night with the 3000+ 333fsb chip just to see what I could do with it.

Ok, one guy said the chip was unlocked so I presumed I could d more or less what I wanted with the multiplier and fsb (within sensible limits) so to cut a long story short, I tweaked and tweaked....to no avail.

System Specs:
MSI K7N2-L Delta (withthe latest 5.6 Bios)
AMD 3000+ (333fsb)
2x512mb 3200 (cas 2.5) TwinMos on TwinMos
(rest doesnt matter)

Ok, now thats out the way, after playing with the Bios to get used to it I realised that the PCI clock and AGP clock are seperate from the FSB so I could change that without fear of screwing the AGP and PCI devices so I started with a very humble setting. I set the CPU fsb to 170 (from 166 default) and put the RAM to 200 (its default). On the reboot it was ok but still reported a 3000+ processor, ok. I then changed the FSB up till it got to 180 and then 'BEEEEP'. no POST. hmmm. so I reset the Bios and tried again. this time putting the multiplier down to x7.0 and the CPU fsb to 166. 'BEEEEP' no POST.

Ok ive tried a lot more than this too but I hit a brick wall and theres NO WAY I can set the FSB to 200 and the RAM to 200 (As someone suggested ffurther up) as it just bombs.

Am I being COMPLETELY dense? hehe

thx!

Daz

Thanks mate, although it seems now that E-Buyer have cancelled the processor from the order for a refund so i can re-order it... hmm. thats a problem seeing as I was maybe gonna keep it on your advice now!!

bum. dunno what to do now

[bigZ]

TwinMOS memory modules are rated at 2.8v, much more than the 2.6v that you're most likely putting thru the memory, that's probably the reason for you not being able to hit 200fsb. When I had TwinMOS PC3200, it was rated at 200FSB 2.5-3-3-7, altho it was CH-5 so it would do 200FSB at 2-3-2-6 with 2.9v vDIMM, that's well within the +-5% that the manufacturers allow for with warranty so you'll have no problems there.

You need to lower the multiplier and then increase the front side bus, set the memory divider to 3/3 or 5/5 they're the fastest dividers on nForce2 from my experiences in benchmarking and tweaking. You also need to keep the memory bus in sync with the front side bus (using either the 3/3 or 5/5 dividers) for the best performance on AMD based systems. The nForce2 platform's bandwidth already saturates the Athlon XP's bus as it's already double the speed, so increasing the memory bus past the front side bus (CPU external clock) will actually cause a performance drop. You will get great memory bandwidth, but with an already saturated front side bus, you'll get no extra performance from the system.

Set the Multiplier to 8.0x front side bus to 166 and then see what happens there. TwinMOS is weird stuff tbh, took me a while to get the best out of it. I was having trouble getting past 192fsb at first, then all of a sudden something clicked, can't remember what it was but it solved my problems of getting above 192fsb, all of a sudden I could get up to 218fsb on it's rated 2.5-3-3-7 timings.

Hope this helps you a bit, good luck with it and don't be afraid to ask more questions. I'll try my best to help.

bigZ

[daz_uk]

Ok, i'll give it all a try, sounds like i got same memory as u had.

The memory clock though is not seeming to be the problem, cos i can get that ok at 200 default, the problem is the FSB for the CPU. Its 166 as default and there seems to be NO WAY i can get it to 200fsb as someone said i'd be able to do. On monday the 3000+ 400 cpu arrives and when i put that one in it will be in synch at 400/400 and then i can raise them in unison no problem. It just seems at the minute that i am tweaking just to get this CPU to get NEAR to that 'default' level i will achieve on monday....

thanks!

TwinMOS memory modules are rated at 2.8v, much more than the 2.6v that you're most likely putting thru the memory, that's probably the reason for you not being able to hit 200fsb. When I had TwinMOS PC3200, it was rated at 200FSB 2.5-3-3-7, altho it was CH-5 so it would do 200FSB at 2-3-2-6 with 2.9v vDIMM, that's well within the +-5% that the manufacturers allow for with warranty so you'll have no problems there.

You need to lower the multiplier and then increase the front side bus, set the memory divider to 3/3 or 5/5 they're the fastest dividers on nForce2 from my experiences in benchmarking and tweaking. You also need to keep the memory bus in sync with the front side bus (using either the 3/3 or 5/5 dividers) for the best performance on AMD based systems. The nForce2 platform's bandwidth already saturates the Athlon XP's bus as it's already double the speed, so increasing the memory bus past the front side bus (CPU external clock) will actually cause a performance drop. You will get great memory bandwidth, but with an already saturated front side bus, you'll get no extra performance from the system.

Set the Multiplier to 8.0x front side bus to 166 and then see what happens there. TwinMOS is weird stuff tbh, took me a while to get the best out of it. I was having trouble getting past 192fsb at first, then all of a sudden something clicked, can't remember what it was but it solved my problems of getting above 192fsb, all of a sudden I could get up to 218fsb on it's rated 2.5-3-3-7 timings.

Hope this helps you a bit, good luck with it and don't be afraid to ask more questions. I'll try my best to help.

bigZ

[BUFF]

You might also want to try upping the Vcore slightly - a lot of nForce 2 boards seem to undervolt slightly (don't know about the msi - probably worth a visit to www.nforcershq.com & msi specific forums ).

[daz_uk]

note carefully how for some of the speeds there are several versions

if this multiplier is 12.5 or less then you have all the multipliers up to 12.5 to choose from,but you cannot use 13 or above

if this multiplier is 13 or more then as far as this board goes its locked

change the multiplier and it will not boot until you clear cmos

I just found that as a quote on MSI HQ forums. If thats true then my 3000+ 333 is on 13 multiplier and thus is locked. However looking on the AMD website it seems like the 400fsb version i have coming on monday is at 10.5 and thus is not locked.... why is this so confusing and with such conflicting opinions. All i know is despiet all advise and days of tinkering, I CANNOT get anywhere near 200fsb. That is changing multipliers, upping voltages, lowering things to raise others - the lot. and not just randomly , i mean im using my noggin here and all advice, i just dont know how to tell if its bloody unlocked or not with all these conflicting reports im reading. besides it cant be unlocked properly cos i cant reach high fsb's

[BUFF]

if this multiplier is 13 or more then as far as this board goes its locked

change the multiplier and it will not boot until you clear cmos

On an ABIT you don't get that - with the 5 part FID we have access to all multipliers.
Must be a board restriction - with those codes it ought to be unlocked is all i can say.

[daz_uk]

the multipliers i have access to are from 7.0 up to 13.
but it seems no matter what i set it to multiplier-wise, the systme needs fails to post.
sod it, ill wait for monday when i get the new chip which is already at 400...lol