4+ year old gamin rig - Need upgrade advise

Noob alert! First time post.

This old man will do his best to be succinct <Difficult for me to do. LOL!>.

My old rig served me well until September of 2007, when one the Mushkin sticks died.
It was time for upgrading then, but figured I would take a sabatical from gaming & wait.

Reason for waiting - There's always new hardware coming down the pipe for sure,
but it seemed more than usual would be available just after the new year of 2008.
I have continued to wait until now.

* Do not care to overclock, unless a mild overclock on air would make sense to smooth out a potential bottleneck?
* Only interested in gaming (Typical games - Call of Duty series, Far Cry, BF2, HL2 & Flight Sim 2004).
* My favorite = Call of Duty 2 on Tactical Servers only - Gotta love the realism & strict rules!
* Would like to satisfactorily play Crysis, COD4, Flight Sim X etc.
* I typically have no more that 3 games installed at one time.
* My wife and I have a couple other cheapo PCs for goofing around with Linux, music, web surfing, email etc.

Old System: Lian-Li PC-75 case, PC Power & cooling 520W, Abit AI7, 2 x 512MB Mushkin,
2 x 36GB Raptors, 19" NEC CRT, Radeon 9800XT, P4 2.8 CPU.

I figure the beautiful aluminum Lian-Li case and older Raptors can be kept for a new build.

The problem I am having is getting over DDR3, X48/790i boards & justifying the cost.
Reason - Is this only beneficial for overclocking enthusiasts like yourselves?
I'm a sucker for aesthetics, but can appreciate good stuff as well when it makes sense.
Gotta love the X48 ASUS P5E3 Premium, Rampage Formula & 790I boards!

I'm swayed towards the following:
Keep the case & older raptors.
Main board: ASUS P5E3 Premium or Rampage Formula (X48), 790I board if SLI makes sense, Abit IP-35 Pro.
CPU: Intel E8400.
RAM: 4GB DDR2/3.
Air Cooling: TRUE? Would that be overkill for non- to mild overclock?
Video: 9800 GX2 or 2 x 9800 GTX.
Monitor: 24" Gateway FHD2400.
PSU: Gigabyte ODIN GE-S800A-D1.
Audio: Auzentech X-Fi Prelude 7.1 or ASUS Xonar D2X <XP/Vista respectively>.
OS of any kind: Already have it covered <legit>.

Budget: $2,200.

A P35 board sounds like it would do for your build, any of the top ASUS or abit offerings or even DFi.

SLi isnt justified, a 9800 GX2 would be a better bet (yes these are intenally SLi'ed)

If it is just for gaming (no video editing etc) then a Core2Duo will be fine.

4Gb of DDR2 is only about &#163;60 atm DDR3 still isnt worth it even with recent price drops.

TRUE - depends how low you want your temps and how much you want to spend on a cooler.

PSU: Never had any experiece with Gigabyte PSUs but would rather go with the Enermax MODU82+ series. or the new Be Quiet! Dark Power series.

Keep case & raptors: aye
Motherboard: Rampage Formula if you want the bling, X48 is a good chipset.
CPU: Q6600 is still better bang for buck
RAM: 4GB DDR2, DDR3 is still a waste of money
Air Cooling: even the stock HSF for modern CPUs are adiquate for stock frequency or mild overclocks, go aftermarket for added bling and cooler running if you want to diddle a bit more with overclocking
Video: ATi 3870 X2 thrashes the 9800GTX, and is significantly cheaper than the 9800 GX2, also the 4870 is 'close' (not sure how close) to release and it destroys everything in nV's arsenal.
Monitor: Dell E248WFP 24", cheap, usual high Dell TFT quality and all the features you'd need in a monitor.
PSU: PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad-Crossfire PCI-E 750W, on the off-chance that you decide to get another 3870 X2, else, drop PSU to about 500W tops. As long as you get a PSU with an 8+6 PCIe power connectors you can use the ATi overdrive facility, 6+6 will do if you can't be bothered with that.
Audio: Probably the Auzentech, or Razor AC-1.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aidanjt

CPU: Q6600 is still better bang for buck

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If this is just for gaming then the Quad will not be justified.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aidanjt

Motherboard: Rampage Formula if you want the bling, X48 is a good chipset.

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X48 is aimed at enthusiats that want to overclock and the OP states no overclocking. It would be a waste of money imo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aidanjt

Video: ATi 3870 X2 thrashes the 9800GTX, and is significantly cheaper than the 9800 GX2, also the 4870 is 'close' (not sure how close) to release and it destroys everything in nV's arsenal.

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I agree the 3870 X2 would be a better bet than 9800GTX.
Also im sure Nvidia will not let ATi steal the crown with the 4870. The 9900 series will not be far behind.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aidanjt

Audio: Probably the Auzentech, or Razor AC-1.

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Defiantely Auzen. The Razer AC-1 was basically designed for the Barracuda Headset and has a few minor probs when usind with certain equipment.

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Originally Posted by ackrite26

If this is just for gaming then the Quad will not be justified.

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It is since the Q6600 is cheaper, and game engines are already using multi-core CPUs more correctly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ackrite26

X48 is aimed at enthusiats that want to overclock and the OP states no overclocking. It would be a waste of money imo.

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PCIe 2.0 isn't enthusiast only, neither are other improvements the X48 bring.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ackrite26

I agree the 3870 X2 would be a better bet than 9800GTX.
Also im sure Nvidia will not let ATi steal the crown with the 4870. The 9900 series will not be far behind.

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Perhaps, but it sure is a massive leap for AMD in performance, and nV has become very complacent of late, this will get them back on their toes.

With regards to the OS you would need a 64 bit operating system to take full advantage of 4Gb RAM

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Originally Posted by kasavien

With regards to the OS you would need a 64 bit operating system to take full advantage of 4Gb RAM

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i still get 3.5gb using xp32bit 2x2gb xms2 and asus p5k

Yeah sorry that's what i meant, you don't get the full 4Gb, in know it's not much to lose but some people might be bothered

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aidanjt

PCIe 2.0 isn't enthusiast only, neither are other improvements the X48 bring.

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Current GFX cards do not ulilise the full bandwidth of PCI-E 1.0 let alone PCI-E 2.0

I dont think the extra &#163;80 for a X48 board is justified. unless he is going to keep upgrading over the next year then X48 will be overkill.

Other improvements?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aidanjt

It is since the Q6600 is cheaper, and game engines are already using multi-core CPUs more correctly.

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It is not cheaper?? Games will not fully use Quad core capabilities until atleast a years time. The Q6600 will be 'old news' by then. If he doesnt want to upgrade for a while maybe the Q9300 will be a better bet. Less power draw. Less cooling required.


What we need to know is does XLynx" want to keep upgrading over the foreseeable future?

<No advertising - You don't even have the 50 posts require for the For Sale forum yet ;)>

as far as i'm aware you're not allowed to advertise ebay auctions on here, so maybe remove it before a mod sees :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kasavien

Yeah sorry that's what i meant, you don't get the full 4Gb, in know it's not much to lose but some people might be bothered

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i wonder if with xp although it only (recognises)shows up as 3.5gb if you were to fully load that 3.5gb would it let you use the extra 0.5gb??

i use xp32bit and i can't fill that anyway

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ackrite26

It is not cheaper?? Games will not fully use Quad core capabilities until atleast a years time.

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Games like UT3 and Crysis are using Quad-core right now to their advantage.

I agree that if building a gaming machine with a $2200, quad is the way to go :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ackrite26

Current GFX cards do not ulilise the full bandwidth of PCI-E 1.0 let alone PCI-E 2.0

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Current single GPU cards, no..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ackrite26

I dont think the extra &#163;80 for a X48 board is justified. unless he is going to keep upgrading over the next year then X48 will be overkill.

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Of course it depends on what he wants, a P35 would do the job fine too. Personally I'd get an mATX board, I don't use a bunch of AIBs and overclocking is a waste of time. Never the less, the X48 is a solid chipset.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ackrite26

Other improvements?

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Memory controller and such.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ackrite26

It is not cheaper?? Games will not fully use Quad core capabilities until atleast a years time. The Q6600 will be 'old news' by then.

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Supcom and others already eat into the 4 cores, although they don't *fully* utilise them, it's still a marked improvement. And again, the Q6600 is cheaper than the OPs first choice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ackrite26

If he doesnt want to upgrade for a while maybe the Q9300 will be a better bet. Less power draw. Less cooling required.

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I agree, the Q9300 is a worthy replacement if you want to stretch the budget that little bit more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ackrite26

What we need to know is does XLynx" want to keep upgrading over the foreseeable future?

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*nod* especially with Intel's much touted new core design coming along next year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sammytomjohn

i wonder if with xp although it only (recognises)shows up as 3.5gb if you were to fully load that 3.5gb would it let you use the extra 0.5gb??

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No it won't.
Its limited by what it says :)

Quote:

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It is not cheaper?? Games will not fully use Quad core capabilities until atleast a years time. The Q6600 will be 'old news' by then. If he doesnt want to upgrade for a while maybe the Q9300 will be a better bet. Less power draw. Less cooling required.

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Ackrite.
The Q6600 will still be useful long after the E8*** series CPus have been forgotten.
The ONLY thing these E8*** CPUs have going for them is their overclocking ability (albeit at stupid voltages that kill them anyway).

Regardless of their clockability, when all said and done, they are only Dual Core CPUs.

Can I just add, you might need more than 72GB (I'm assuming you don't have the Raptors in RAID?) of storage if you're gonna be installing meaty games.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blitzen

Ackrite.
The Q6600 will still be useful long after the E8*** series CPus have been forgotten.
The ONLY thing these E8*** CPUs have going for them is their overclocking ability (albeit at stupid voltages that kill them anyway).

Regardless of their clockability, when all said and done, they are only Dual Core CPUs.

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I'd agree with that,

unless he wants to upgrade again within the year there is little point building now with the intent of upgrading as intel's socket will change next year, therefore any upgrade will no doubt be CPU, mobo and possibly RAM (depending on what you get this time)

Given the stupid prices of DDR2 right now, I would hedge my bets on this system lasting a good few years and just stick with a DDR2 setup.

X48 I would stay away from, as well as the 790i motherboards. There is little need for SLi with cards like the 9800GX2 and ATi HD3870X2 floating around at fair enough prices (as well as the the next gen cards we have coming out in the next month or two)

I would either stick with P35 or a decent X38 board (retaining DDR2 but keeping crossfire if you really want it) or wait for the newer P45 board which is the last board to be on the 775 socket. If you wait for that you might as well wait for the next graphics cards (or vice cerca whichever you really want to wait for)

If you like raptors which I'm sure you do it may be worth actually selling what you have and perhaps getting one of these
Western Digital VelociRaptor 300GB 10000RPM SATA-II 16MB Cache - OEM (WD3000GLFS) (UK link sorry)

It's bigger, faster, and runs almost silently from what I have read. Expensive it is, but with the sale of your other raptors i'm sure it would take some of the sting out.

I think everyone here knows the sort of PC I would build given your budget, I like to stick to midrange as it offers the best value for money and gives 80&#37; or more of what you can achieve with a lot more money.

That would be along the lines of

Q6600 + decent cooler (TRUE is good, scythe's range are great for the money)
4GB DDR2
P35/X38(at most) board
500-600W Decent brand PSU (Enermax, corsair/seasonic)
VelociRaptor would be kool if only for bragging rights

and then what you deem a necessary graphics card. At your resolution, one 9800GTX or 8800GTX would be enough for now and save you a lot of money you don't need to spend.
We all know that the upper end cards of next year are going tear something like the 9800GX2 apart so you might as well spend half the graphics budget now and then the rest then.

Just my thoughts :)

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I think everyone here knows the sort of PC I would build given your budget

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I dont. :innocent:
Please tell me :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blitzen

I dont. :innocent:
Please tell me :D

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looks remarkably like you pc ;)

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Originally Posted by staffsMike

looks remarkably like you pc ;)

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.........you have disappointed me now :(

(must admit though, with this X38, im seriously considering going XFire).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blitzen

(must admit though, with this X38, im seriously considering going XFire).

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With what, X2's?

Asus TOP's ? :D
Asus ATI Radeon HD 3870 X2 TOP 1024MB GDDR3 TV-Out/Quad DVI/HDMI (PCI-Express) - Retail

Quote:

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Originally Posted by staffsMike

With what, X2's?

Asus TOP's ? :D
Asus ATI Radeon HD 3870 X2 TOP 1024MB GDDR3 TV-Out/Quad DVI/HDMI (PCI-Express) - Retail

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I think so yeh.
They arent that dear and my card should still fetch around £130 at least.

I want to create a new (if it hasn't been done already) acronym SWPC - still won't play crysis :D

That would be pretty awesome though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by staffsMike

I want to create a new (if it hasn't been done already) acronym SWPC - still won't play crysis :D

That would be pretty awesome though.

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Crysis is a bit of an odd one though dont you think.

I bought it.
I played it.
I sold it.

After all the hype it was such a disappointment. Graphically it was amazing. Shame they sacrificed the gameplay for looks though as it was god awful boring :)

Certainly I agree. I never even went as far as to buy it. Played it at a mates for an hour and was so bored I turned it off.

xfire X2's will certainly keep most games happy for a long time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by staffsMike

Certainly I agree. I never even went as far as to buy it. Played it at a mates for an hour and was so bored I turned it off.

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i played it at my brothers, and 5 mins in it crashed (i was making sure the turtle was dead :(), and i couldnt be bothered to start the game up again... thats how good it is :)


I'd say:

Go ddr2 (as everyone else seems to be saying also, the price for a small performance increase for ddr3 is'nt justified)
i'd go with the q6600 if it were my money, and i'd whack a scythe mine or a TRUE on it
4gb corsair xms2
abit darkraider (i've heard that its good)
PSU: i'd go for corsair (although some people have had problems with them :S,[i think blitzen has], but IMHO the HX series are great PSU's or go for enermax