new rig, advise

[Bugbait]

However, I know that some people either: a) are lousy at building things (and it's no good saying how easy it is, some people just don't have the "bent" for them); or b) really just can't be arsed (just like I feel about most DIY jobs).

That's a key point right there. Some people think the OP is being stubborn about not building it himself or not getting some "unknown" stranger off the Net to build it for him. From what I've read he's made it quite clear that he has no interest in building it himself yet some people on here still feel the need to shove that angle around.

Still, I've known a few self-made multi-millionaires, and none of them do like paying over the odds for something, however much money they have. Terence Conran, for example, used to park at the edge of a small town in the South of France, and walk to his favourite restaurant, rather than pay the local car park charge of 50F (as it was then).

I'm not advocating thorwing money away but would you spend an entire weekend painting a flat or pay someone £100-200 to do it for you? It's not like you've giving the money away but you're freeing up your own time for other things that you both enjoy and and probably better at. We recently had 2 feature walls painted and the builder did both with two coats in less time than I would've taken to do one. Looks far better too!

So I understand Bugbait talking about different perspectives, but I think it's dumb to pay over the odds just because you can. Maybe you won't be able to in the future if that's your attitude (unless you happen to be a member of the Royal Family or similar).

Paying over the odds is when you get two professional quotes and choose the higher one because you feel like it. Comparing parts of £1000 to a fully build, tested, and delivered system of £1500 is not comparing apples to apples. What's the price from Yoyotech vs Scan vs Vadim for a similar, fully built, configured, and warrantied system? That's the comparison that should be made.

There's saving money and there's being smart with your money. You have to look at what can be done in the time you spend on building a PC (for example). If it takes you 4 hours but you make £50/hr then in the time you're spent building your PC you "lost" £200 that you could've made during other paid work. Saving is not just about what you don't spend. We're getting really off the topic here though.

Back on track...

What does make sense it not paying for things you don't need. Blitzen made 4 good suggestions in his last post, all of which I agree with and are of value to the OP. Incorporating these changes would a) save money in a good way, b) not affect the final performance of the PC.

[Bugbait]

Bugbait - the PC in question was from Evesham, who have now closed down, making this particular's persons 10 year warranty null and void. He lost out on approximately 9 1/2 years... but it was still a 10 year warranty. May have been slightly less.

Curious, why did they close down? A 10 year warranty from a company that no long trades is not really a warranty is it? This was a common practice in Australia (and likely other parts of the world too) when the PC boom first kicked off. Companies would dissolve and reform every 1-2 years (or more frequently) thus negating any previous warranties. Not saying that’s what happened here but it’s something to remember.

And testing? I didn't have the slighest idea how to test it. Thankfully Scan have got a semi-decent customer service, meaning that when you ring them up saying "I think my motherboard is dead, what do I do to test it?" They send you a nice e-mail telling you how to do it... 7 stages I believe. Then you ring them up (again) and they'll tell you what the results mean and organise a date for collection of potentially faulty part. If the part is faulty, they repair or replace it free of charge, including collection charges.

And all this takes time and possibly aggravation, especially if you’re not confident with PC hardware which is one of my key points. I don’t mind it and often enjoy it, you seem to enjoy it as do half the other posters on this thread but again, does the OP?

And with a car, you're talking about maybe 10% of the total price saved by self-servicing (such as replacing oil) meaning that it's alot easier just to spend that extra 10%. Here, we're talking about cutting his costs down by what? 1/3? More than a 1/3? That's 20-40% (1/5 - 2/5 for those that prefer fractions) which is a substantial amount to cut down on from anything. Wouldn't you love to have 20-40% cut off of the price of your car or house?

How many cars have you owed? You really think self servicing only saves you 10%? A good mechanic in the midlands will charge £35+/hr. In London you’ll be luckily to find anyone under £40-45/hr. A major dealer will charge upwards of £80/hr. I know BMW charge around £105+VAT per hour. A basic oil change will cost you atleast an hour of the mechanic’s time. A minor and especially a major service, much more. Good synthetic oil is a good £12-15 per litre of which you’ll need 4-6 litres for a standard car. Add in filters etc and the labour saving is still nowhere near 10%.

Of course I’d like to save 20-40% off a car or house, who wouldn’t? Even billionaires would love that kind of saving. Are you saying he could save that if you ordered from a prebuilt from Scan or Yoyotech instead of Vadim? Or is that comparing components to a prebuilt?

As Thorsson as said, unless you happen to be a member of the Royal Family, it's dumb just to pay 50% extra (If he would pay £1000 without and £1500 with it's 50% extra) for something that you could get for a fraction of the price, even with extended warranties. Thorsson has just said he earns £100K but still saves money by doing things such as building his own PCs and avoiding overpriced parts.

Yet people shop at PC World all the time . I agree with your sentiment, just make sure we’re all comparing the same things here.

People at the bank I work with think I was crazy spending £7k on a bespoke entertainment unit. They said things like, “the wood and materials wouldn’t cost more than a few hundred”. They would be correct, however the designer spent his time drafting many versions of the final product to our very exacting specifications. There’s the labour in building, crafting, delivering and installing the final product. I’m paying for the expertise. If something goes wrong or is not to specification then I have the right to complain. Do you work for free? Would you expect your expertise to go unrewarded?

[educatedfool]

In fairness PC world have some good offers in the sales (unless of course you're talking about prebuilds) and you don't exactly need a great deal of expertise to build a PC. The craftsman/designer example you mentioned is a bit off as they requires a great deal of time and thinking. A PC takes a few hours, it's like putting up a flat pack cupboard in comparison, all you have to do is follow the instructions.

[Bugbait]

In fairness PC world have some good offers in the sales (unless of course you're talking about prebuilds) and you don't exactly need a great deal of expertise to build a PC. The craftsman/designer example you mentioned is a bit off as they requires a great deal of time and thinking. A PC takes a few hours, it's like putting up a flat pack cupboard in comparison, all you have to do is follow the instructions.

No, but you do need atleast basic knowledge. Thankfully the Internet holds an extensive amount of knowledge (and opinion). As the OP has stated, he has attempted his own builds in the past and encountered issues. Using your flat pack example, if you tried to assemble furniture yourself in the past and encountered problems wouldn’t you consider paying someone to do it for you, even if it should be simple?

Again, you’re assuming that everything goes together without problems. There are many examples on this forum alone of the frustration, annoyance, and sometimes even a bit of panic when things go wrong. Even if you buy flat pack furniture from Ikea, if something is missing you have to waste time travelling back to the store, waiting in the queue, then hopefully getting a replacement or the missing parts.

Yes, the bespoke furniture is a bit of an extreme example in relation but I’m also paying a far larger premium. I think the figures being thrown around for the PC above were 50% more than the raw material cost? I’d be surprised if my entertainment unit didn’t contain a far higher premium!

[Thorsson]

Evesham were a long established company. However these days PCs are a commodity, and smaller PC companies find it hard to compete on price with Dell. Mesh is about the only one of the older pre-built companies still around.

And talking of these companies, I'm afraid to say that buying pre-built is not a guaranteed experience. Lots of pre-built machines don't work properly out of the box.

Vadim may be the exception that breaks the rule, so it may well be worth paying some extra if that is the case. Just don't pay £500 more than you need by choosing overpriced components as well.

And I wouldn't put much value in a warranty over 1 year unless it was from Dell or HP.

[shadowcreaper]

One of a point that some people missing is still the cooling issue, sinse i looked at scan and they seem to still use stock parts for cooling ect. same with cyberspace. vadim seem to totaly change all stock fans ect and replace/+make more room for better quality parts with temperature sensors to messure/record heat, thus simple to change into" gaming mode" then back into normal idle mode.

Also another point is haggling you seem to be missing, wheather or not you haggle.. first you phone them up quote the spec you like, then ask for their best price, you then haggle them down. probaly able to get about 10%-25% off asking price.

which will then bring the price down to 1.0--1.1k which about the same as scans price, though they dont have all the quality parts.nor change parts or have customer service as good.(why else would reveiws+ videos and TV programmes EG gadget show dude, use them if they soo good... and cheaper.....)

The main reson i was on forums if you read though it, was not about price but about spec.

It seems many have totaly forgot about this, i not sure how you buy things but when you buy car(i using car as example sinse you seem to like using it as one....) do you walk into showroom and say " i like that car how much is it?" ........the dealer than says "15k but for you sir il do it for 12k "....do you then go ok, and buy the car then????

Sinse hopefuly now you see my point.Likewise as other guy said warrenty a major issue, sinse i dealt with many companys when building LOW tech small pc builds ec,t which are horrendous at warrenty on seperate parts and having to pay shipping to get them fixed

...Anyhow if some of you seem to have very narrow view, then it kinda useless trying to explain things, like talking to a fish about the universe.. it ant going to happen...or trying to tell Bin Laden that american is his Friend..

[Thorsson]

I really don't understand what you're talking about regarding stock parts. Are you saying Scan will not use an aftermarket cooler on your CPU if you wish? Getting an aftermarket cooler for the GPU is worthwhile if you're at the top of the tree (or want silence, but that's another matter). Otherwise you're better off spending money on a better card(s). Replacing fans in an expensive case is largely a waste. Adding temperature sensors is just BS - there are perfectly adequate ones on the chips themselves, which are accessible with the right software (like Everest). "Gaming Mode" sounds simply like using the inbuilt Intel functions, e.g. Speedstep.

But if you get 25% off the asking price then it doesn't really matter. Good Luck.

BTW, since you use the word so often, it's spelt sinCe.