Really, REALLY weird Mouse pointer moves by itself

[Rosaline]

PS/2 and USB Human Interface Devices work via messages, not via an 'up' line, a 'left' line, and so on. These messages have to be decoded for them to mean anything. As such, a simple motherboard fault was already unlikely, and you have ruled this out by swapping them around.

The most likely reason was with the mouse hardware, but as you have swapped those around, it cannot be that, and you have also tried both roller and optical ruling out surface issues.

Presumably you have tried different, clean OS installs when you say that the problem also presents under XP, ruling out the second most likely reason, software problems.

Lucio has the only possible explanation. Intermittent Contact is being made somewhere between your motherboard and case (and/or potentially between other components) when the temperatures get hot, most likely near the USB connections, their lines and the chip they connect to. You have been lucky it seems, this is only manifesting by the mouse moving, when it could have done worse!

[TheAnimus]

hmmm, indeed.

First off do you have PS2 ports on your motherboard? If yes, disable them in bios.

now, the odds of something shorting in the case to ground, happening to been interpreted as the move down x and y command is well, unlikely even on PS2 this is not a simple command that has to be clocked out at 46khz iirc with parity. Its just not going to happen. Whats more likely is the controller which is generally integrated into the south bridge (really really old ones had a seperate USART for this!) so again, very unlikely as 38 is fine.

Are you using OS or BIOS usb emulation?

So, odds are its the mouse serfice. Take the mouse put some bluetack on the sensor, apply some tape to hold it over it, see if problem happens. I don't think it will.

[Jay]

I have seem this before. I found out that a very stronge signal from a wireless telephone was causing it. It was an old phone and as soon as I put it near any mouse the pointer would do a very smooth move down. I worried about my brain, if it can control my mouse it may be able to control me! Ha ha. Needless to say it went right in the bin

[stevie lee]

Only seems to happen when room is hot

I think that there is a tiny piece of gunk/sweat on mousemat and when the room gets hot, then the sweat heats up and rolls across the mousemat down a grove that just happens to be perfectly straight and underneath the mouse sensor causing the cursor to move in a straight line down the screen.

my sisters Razer mouse did this, my old intellimouse explorer 2 did this, as did a couple of ball mice.. all using asus motherboards and all on cheap mousemats.

BUT

ever since i swapped to a steelpad 4d mousemat with special plastic coating, there have been no jiggly cursors.. if i put a normal foam bottom, fabric top mousemat under the mouse it jiggles away to its hearts content and stops as soon as i swap back to the steelpad.

so basically the mousemat gets affected somehow when the room gets hot, so it causes mouse to jiggle.. and your desk isn't level..


its the only answer left that i can think of...

try a different mousemat/surface..

[Rosaline]

hmmm, indeed.

First off do you have PS2 ports on your motherboard? If yes, disable them in bios.

now, the odds of something shorting in the case to ground, happening to been interpreted as the move down x and y command is well, unlikely even on PS2 this is not a simple command that has to be clocked out at 46khz iirc with parity. Its just not going to happen. Whats more likely is the controller which is generally integrated into the south bridge (really really old ones had a seperate USART for this!) so again, very unlikely as 38 is fine.

Are you using OS or BIOS usb emulation?

I agree, the odds of a simple short causing the issue is virtually zero. However if the case is also connecting with a contact elsewhere, the case might not actually be grounding at all, but rather wiring two areas together.

So, odds are its the mouse serfice. Take the mouse put some bluetack on the sensor, apply some tape to hold it over it, see if problem happens. I don't think it will.

He said that it happened with both optical and roller, which rules out a surface issue

[nick_h]

Lucio : Case not grounded properly. Good theory this one and certaintly no one I had considered. I am meticulas when I install my boards. I don't do anything fancy.

So.... While not discounting the theory off hand it would be unlucky for the probem occured on 2 previous Mother Boards. The chance of me having a poorly grounded board would be slim on all 3.

TheAnimus : No ps2 ports on this board. OS or BIOS usb. I'll check. Mouse surface. Def not. Even does it with everything unplugged except the monitor.

Jay : Only seems to happen when ambient temp in room is high.

Stevie Lee : As above

Rosaline : See above but worth checking out

[Eddd]

I've heard of some wierd things happening with mice because of a faulty harddrive - mice disappearing etc. Might not be the problem here, but trying a different harddrive and seeing if the problem is still apparent might rule this out.

Lucio : Case not grounded properly. Good theory this one and certaintly no one I had considered. I am meticulas when I install my boards. I don't do anything fancy.

So.... While not discounting the theory off hand it would be unlucky for the probem occured on 2 previous Mother Boards. The chance of me having a poorly grounded board would be slim on all 3.

Taking the motherboard and checking al stand-off, etc then replacing it is still worth a shot.


If those two fail, then I'd definitely call the Ghost Busters.

[nick_h]

OK been doing some testing

Eddd : Brand new HD but problem occurred on older drives in other MB

Booted into safe mode : Mouse rock solid. 20 minutes and never moved.
Booted into Vista install environment from DVD. Mouse rock solid and never moved.

Booted in standard Vista. Mouse fine for 5 minutes.

Ran CPU stress test with all 4 cores at 100% for 5 minutes and mouse starts to move.

Next test to see if I can run the stress test in safe mode. If I can and the mouse does not move ....... Well we know what the answer is then ......

[stevie lee]

I did some basic research on this jiggly/randomly moving cursor thing a while back. and found out it was either a small piece of moisture on the mousemat (why i mentioned it before) or a very small less than 1/2mm movement with the mouse (mainly infra-red) sends a 'start moving' signal to the CPU but it forgets to send the 'i've stopped moving the mouse' signal.. so the move command keeps getting repeated over and over... i noticed it happened frequently when the CPU was at full load, and only once when at low load..

I can repeat it quite easily if i plug my intellimouse in and start playing doom 3 on ultra settings (full load on my PC)..

(i don't have the research anymore so i can't post it here if you ask for it..)


can i ask, where is the mouse in relation to your PC, or any fans blowing out the case.. the hot air extracted from fully loaded CPU, might warm up the mousemat causing it to expand slightly and move the mouse less than 1/2mm, causing the jiggly/down movement. or you have a slightly wobbly desk.



--all the above might sound like complete rubbish, but i specialise in weird theorys on things, and more than 90% have turned out to be true in one way or another--

[nick_h]

stevie keep the suggestions coming ...

Case is a LARGE Thermaltake with plenty of ventilation. Fans exhaust out the back and the the top of the case. Nothing blowing anywhere near mouse.

Remember. The problem still occurs with ALL peripherals unplugged. IE no mouse, keyboard or anything.... Give it time and the pointer starts its trek to the bottom of the screen ....

[nick_h]

I cant seem to replicate the fault in either safe mode or the Vista install environment .........

I suppose this could be because :
a) It has not enough work to do in this environment
b) I did not give it long enough

or a conbination of the above.

I did run the stress test in Safe Mode for 10 mins though and all was OK

Back into normal Vista and the Mouse Pointer is moving after a few mins.

Killed of any procecces / Apps and Services I was not familiar with but no joy. Still moving now .....

[nick_h]

What would be running in NORMAL Vista that :

a) Interracts with the mouse
b) Would cause it to move by itself

that would not be running in Safe Mode or Install environment ?

Clutching at straws now and had a few beers so sorry if the spelling is going downhill !

[stevie lee]

ooh right.. still does it with everything unplugged.. thats a new one on me..

I forgot to say the way I stopped the jiggly/moving mouse was to alter the sensitivity of the mouse up a notch.. i think if you go to control panel->mouse->pointer options and alter the cursor speed, it might fix it (not sure about vista, i only have XP). unless the mouse has software of its own to increase the sensitivity..

but that was with a mouse plugged in.. still.. it's the only thing you haven't tried..



another thing that seems weird, is that i had jiggly mouse, on an asus in a large thermaltake case too... might just be that this combination causes it..

[nick_h]

stevie lee..... You are a GENIUS

That was not the fix but it got me looking in the right area

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Time for bed

Thanks all for your time !

[TheAnimus]

i would really really still look at the surface.

please try putting something simple over the optical sensor... i really want to know the cause now. Occams style i'd say its either a virus, or the actual mouse itself. the 'middle' bit having issues is just too far fetched for my liking.

At my old work place we had these poor mans oak desk tops. Chinease Ash i think, which had been waxed, this used to cause the problems with the mouse if it was over a knott in the wood. Remeber optical mice are the retard babies of CCDs.

[stevie lee]

so is it fixed then?

if so how??


and i know i'm a genius, it's only recently others are seeing it...

oh well.. back to the 'Measurement problem' and how gravity works.. string theory is hard...

nighty night..