Really, REALLY weird Mouse pointer moves by itself

OK. This is bizarre.

My pc is in the loft. In the Summer it gets pretty warm but with the window open and the fan on the ambient temp is around 80'F.

The current MB temp is reporting as between 36 to 39'C.

After the PC has been on a while the mouse pointer begins to move all by its lonesome.

It's not an erratic movement but the pointer will move to the bottom of the screen by itself from wherever you put it. As you can imagine with the pointer moving you cant select anything.

Opening the case or allowing the pc too cool down seems to return everything back to normal for a while.

In the winter or when it's cold their is no problem.

The really odd thing is this has happened to me with the last 3 Mother Boards !!! currently an Asus P5KC.

The last 3 boards were also Asus. Has anyone experience this ?

I'm using a Microsoft Wireless Optical mouse but I've also tried a standard usb mouse with exactly the same results.

It means when the PC gets to a certain temp I cant use it which is nuts.

It must be the Motherboard. I cant think of anything else that would cause the problem but if it is their are people who live in much hotter climates than the UK so why cant I find anyone else with the problem ?

This issue has happened to me with trackpads, but never mice.
With mice i've had erratic movements that almost always turns out to be a hair (or similar) lodged by the LED.
Sorry buddy, but i'll give it some thought

Mine did it its a Razor updated the firmware now its sorted.

Obviously not your problem sorry.

http://blog.ghostbusters.net/wp-cont...fb-225x300.jpg

MSIC : It's not erratic which is the real head scratcher.

Move your mouse pointer to the very top of the screen then slowly move it vertically straight down the screen to the bottom in a dead straight line.

Thats whats happening. Their is no deviation left or right. Occasionally it speeds up a little but always it wants to move down to the bottom of the screen. It's relentless !

Remember this has happened on 3 different motherboards over as many years.

It's either :

1) A Motherboard problem that no one else on the planet seems to have affecting only Asus boards
2) Some kind of software nasty that know what temperature it is in my room and when I'm doing particulary well on Crysis ...... Oh and one that Symantec Internet Security 2008 cant find.....

PaulM : Have latest firmware for MB

shaithis : Class 3 free roaming Mouse Pointer :D

It's almost certainly a fault with the mouse, not with the motherboard. If it's an optical mouse, clean the lens and perhaps try changing the surface used. If it's a roller mouse, then there could be an issue with the sensors inside, try opening it up to have a look.

if you've not tried swapping the mouse , then try that also, it really should have been your first test.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rosaline

It's almost certainly a fault with the mouse, not with the motherboard. If it's an optical mouse, clean the lens and perhaps try changing the surface used. If it's a roller mouse, then there could be an issue with the sensors inside, try opening it up to have a look.

if you've not tried swapping the mouse , then try that also, it really should have been your first test.

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Pasted from first post :

'I'm using a Microsoft Wireless Optical mouse but I've also tried a standard usb mouse with exactly the same results.'

Rosaline : Have to say also that I've worked in IT for the past 10 years for a large corporate 1st and 2nd line support. I've seen a few dodgy mice over the years. It's not a mouse problem of that I'm 100% certain.

But you've changed different motherboards and different mice, so it's not a motherboard or a mouse problem.
So we need to consider the constants...
Peripherals, Operating System, the room environment.... what else?

Is your mouse connected directly to the motherboard, or via a USB hub?
You don't have one of those keyboards which has a scroll on or something do you? If maybe the keyboard was sending a dodgy mouse-like signal, then you could change the mice all you like...

It happens to me with a trackball (logitech marble maouse) - but that is caused by sunlight falling on the sensor. Does the sun fall on the optical mouse?

Whats the desk surface?

nick_h, I haven't got ten years experience, but that's been my line of work for the last three years too, and electrical systems engineering is what I'm trained in. Given how PS2 or USB HIDs work, it was never realistically going to be the motherboard at all, and a mechanical or electrical fault with the mouse itself is by far the most plausible explanation. I apologise for not reading your initial post closely enough to notice the checks you had already performed.

If you change the motherboards, and the mouse, the only common factor left must be the surface you're using.

If there is still problems, it then can only be a software issue.

ok :-) Update then.

Temp of MB has reached 38'C and mouse pointer has STOPPED moving ....

Mmmm..

MSIC : Is your mouse connected directly to the motherboard, or via a USB hub?

Currently HUB but tried directly to MB also tried old roller USB no different.

Other constants :

Did same with XP so OS can be rules out. Does same with all external periphs out.

No scroll device on keyboard.

Only seems to happen when room is hot and this applies to 3 previous MB's

peterb : No direct or even bright light near mouse

shaithis : Matt mouse mat

Rosaline : wasnt having a dig rosaline. Sorry if it sounded that way ....

UPDATE : Just started moving again !!!!

Unplug every thing from the pc apart from the monitor .... Still moves.

Perhaps it's really simple. Your case might be improperly grounded, but only makes direct contact when it's heated up & expands. When it does make contact it causes a slight current that's inteprepted by Windows as a "move mouse down" command.

Might be worth trying to reseat your motherboard or loosen the screws slightly.

PS/2 and USB Human Interface Devices work via messages, not via an 'up' line, a 'left' line, and so on. These messages have to be decoded for them to mean anything. As such, a simple motherboard fault was already unlikely, and you have ruled this out by swapping them around.

The most likely reason was with the mouse hardware, but as you have swapped those around, it cannot be that, and you have also tried both roller and optical ruling out surface issues.

Presumably you have tried different, clean OS installs when you say that the problem also presents under XP, ruling out the second most likely reason, software problems.

Lucio has the only possible explanation. Intermittent Contact is being made somewhere between your motherboard and case (and/or potentially between other components) when the temperatures get hot, most likely near the USB connections, their lines and the chip they connect to. You have been lucky it seems, this is only manifesting by the mouse moving, when it could have done worse!

hmmm, indeed.

First off do you have PS2 ports on your motherboard? If yes, disable them in bios.

now, the odds of something shorting in the case to ground, happening to been interpreted as the move down x and y command is well, unlikely even on PS2 this is not a simple command that has to be clocked out at 46khz iirc with parity. Its just not going to happen. Whats more likely is the controller which is generally integrated into the south bridge (really really old ones had a seperate USART for this!) so again, very unlikely as 38 is fine.

Are you using OS or BIOS usb emulation?

So, odds are its the mouse serfice. Take the mouse put some bluetack on the sensor, apply some tape to hold it over it, see if problem happens. I don't think it will.

I have seem this before. I found out that a very stronge signal from a wireless telephone was causing it. It was an old phone and as soon as I put it near any mouse the pointer would do a very smooth move down. I worried about my brain, if it can control my mouse it may be able to control me! Ha ha. Needless to say it went right in the bin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nick_h

Only seems to happen when room is hot

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I think that there is a tiny piece of gunk/sweat on mousemat and when the room gets hot, then the sweat heats up and rolls across the mousemat down a grove that just happens to be perfectly straight and underneath the mouse sensor causing the cursor to move in a straight line down the screen.

my sisters Razer mouse did this, my old intellimouse explorer 2 did this, as did a couple of ball mice.. all using asus motherboards and all on cheap mousemats.

BUT

ever since i swapped to a steelpad 4d mousemat with special plastic coating, there have been no jiggly cursors.. if i put a normal foam bottom, fabric top mousemat under the mouse it jiggles away to its hearts content and stops as soon as i swap back to the steelpad.

so basically the mousemat gets affected somehow when the room gets hot, so it causes mouse to jiggle.. and your desk isn't level..


its the only answer left that i can think of...

try a different mousemat/surface..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheAnimus

hmmm, indeed.

First off do you have PS2 ports on your motherboard? If yes, disable them in bios.

now, the odds of something shorting in the case to ground, happening to been interpreted as the move down x and y command is well, unlikely even on PS2 this is not a simple command that has to be clocked out at 46khz iirc with parity. Its just not going to happen. Whats more likely is the controller which is generally integrated into the south bridge (really really old ones had a seperate USART for this!) so again, very unlikely as 38 is fine.

Are you using OS or BIOS usb emulation?

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I agree, the odds of a simple short causing the issue is virtually zero. However if the case is also connecting with a contact elsewhere, the case might not actually be grounding at all, but rather wiring two areas together.

Quote:

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So, odds are its the mouse serfice. Take the mouse put some bluetack on the sensor, apply some tape to hold it over it, see if problem happens. I don't think it will.

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He said that it happened with both optical and roller, which rules out a surface issue :(

Lucio : Case not grounded properly. Good theory this one and certaintly no one I had considered. I am meticulas when I install my boards. I don\'t do anything fancy.

So.... While not discounting the theory off hand it would be unlucky for the probem occured on 2 previous Mother Boards. The chance of me having a poorly grounded board would be slim on all 3.

TheAnimus : No ps2 ports on this board. OS or BIOS usb. I\'ll check. Mouse surface. Def not. Even does it with everything unplugged except the monitor.

Jay : Only seems to happen when ambient temp in room is high.

Stevie Lee : As above

Rosaline : See above but worth checking out

I\'ve heard of some wierd things happening with mice because of a faulty harddrive - mice disappearing etc. Might not be the problem here, but trying a different harddrive and seeing if the problem is still apparent might rule this out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nick_h

Lucio : Case not grounded properly. Good theory this one and certaintly no one I had considered. I am meticulas when I install my boards. I don't do anything fancy.

So.... While not discounting the theory off hand it would be unlucky for the probem occured on 2 previous Mother Boards. The chance of me having a poorly grounded board would be slim on all 3.

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Taking the motherboard and checking al stand-off, etc then replacing it is still worth a shot.


If those two fail, then I'd definitely call the Ghost Busters.

OK been doing some testing

Eddd : Brand new HD but problem occurred on older drives in other MB

Booted into safe mode : Mouse rock solid. 20 minutes and never moved.
Booted into Vista install environment from DVD. Mouse rock solid and never moved.

Booted in standard Vista. Mouse fine for 5 minutes.

Ran CPU stress test with all 4 cores at 100% for 5 minutes and mouse starts to move.

Next test to see if I can run the stress test in safe mode. If I can and the mouse does not move ....... Well we know what the answer is then ......

I did some basic research on this jiggly/randomly moving cursor thing a while back. and found out it was either a small piece of moisture on the mousemat (why i mentioned it before) or a very small less than 1/2mm movement with the mouse (mainly infra-red) sends a 'start moving' signal to the CPU but it forgets to send the 'i've stopped moving the mouse' signal.. so the move command keeps getting repeated over and over... i noticed it happened frequently when the CPU was at full load, and only once when at low load..

I can repeat it quite easily if i plug my intellimouse in and start playing doom 3 on ultra settings (full load on my PC)..

(i don't have the research anymore so i can't post it here if you ask for it..)


can i ask, where is the mouse in relation to your PC, or any fans blowing out the case.. the hot air extracted from fully loaded CPU, might warm up the mousemat causing it to expand slightly and move the mouse less than 1/2mm, causing the jiggly/down movement. or you have a slightly wobbly desk.



--all the above might sound like complete rubbish, but i specialise in weird theorys on things, and more than 90% have turned out to be true in one way or another--

stevie keep the suggestions coming ...

Case is a LARGE Thermaltake with plenty of ventilation. Fans exhaust out the back and the the top of the case. Nothing blowing anywhere near mouse.

Remember. The problem still occurs with ALL peripherals unplugged. IE no mouse, keyboard or anything.... Give it time and the pointer starts its trek to the bottom of the screen ....

I cant seem to replicate the fault in either safe mode or the Vista install environment .........

I suppose this could be because :
a) It has not enough work to do in this environment
b) I did not give it long enough

or a conbination of the above.

I did run the stress test in Safe Mode for 10 mins though and all was OK

Back into normal Vista and the Mouse Pointer is moving after a few mins.

Killed of any procecces / Apps and Services I was not familiar with but no joy. Still moving now .....

What would be running in NORMAL Vista that :

a) Interracts with the mouse
b) Would cause it to move by itself

that would not be running in Safe Mode or Install environment ?

Clutching at straws now and had a few beers so sorry if the spelling is going downhill !

ooh right.. still does it with everything unplugged.. thats a new one on me..

I forgot to say the way I stopped the jiggly/moving mouse was to alter the sensitivity of the mouse up a notch.. i think if you go to control panel->mouse->pointer options and alter the cursor speed, it might fix it (not sure about vista, i only have XP). unless the mouse has software of its own to increase the sensitivity..

but that was with a mouse plugged in.. still.. it's the only thing you haven't tried..



another thing that seems weird, is that i had jiggly mouse, on an asus in a large thermaltake case too... might just be that this combination causes it..

stevie lee..... You are a GENIUS :D

That was not the fix but it got me looking in the right area :D

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Time for bed :D

Thanks all for your time !

i would really really still look at the surface.

please try putting something simple over the optical sensor... i really want to know the cause now. Occams style i'd say its either a virus, or the actual mouse itself. the 'middle' bit having issues is just too far fetched for my liking.

At my old work place we had these poor mans oak desk tops. Chinease Ash i think, which had been waxed, this used to cause the problems with the mouse if it was over a knott in the wood. Remeber optical mice are the retard babies of CCDs.

so is it fixed then?

if so how??


and i know i'm a genius, it's only recently others are seeing it...

oh well.. back to the 'Measurement problem' and how gravity works.. string theory is hard...

nighty night..

:D Ok i'll not keep you in suspense :hehe:

Remember I've had the same problem for about 3 years on different boards.

I still had the problem If I unplugged all the hardware. I must have always only unplugged the hardware when the fault started.

I had convinced myself tonight it was a software problem because I could not duplicate it in Safe Mode but it was wierd that it only happened in thye summer at high temps. I was convinced this was a factor.


SO >>>>> I had a Virus that nothing would pick up that only occured in the Summer when I was playing FPS's and the room was hot ..... Mmmmm.


Then your post got me thinking.

I have a seperate Joystick and Throttle by Saitek. This is about 18 months old but previous to this I had a similar unit by Saitek.

One of the controls on the throttle emulates the MOUSE !!!!!

YES !!!

Saitek call it Magic Mouse and it's their under the hardware with the standard Microsoft Mouse.

I disabled it and bingo the mouse just stopped moving down. Just like that !!

3 years of not using the PC in hot weather :hehe:

Their must be some expansion ( or something ) that happens in that particular component that causes it to move down when it's hot. I't enabled all the time so it then conflicts with the Microsoft Mouse !

I would then stick the fan etc pointing at the pc to cool it down and the pointer would slow and stop.

EXCELLENT :D

10 years of experience and it's taken me 3 summers to track it down !! $hit :D

ah, well done!

at least the problem makes sense, its much more probable than any of the suggestions we came up with in this thread!

...And this is why checking what is actually installed is a good idea :P

So, the joystick was plugged in? Despite you saying that it still happened when all peripherals were unplugged?

I was right damnit, in my second post I .... WAS .... RIIIIIIGHT ....
Sort of.
Well done everyone though, i think we can all sleep safer tonight :)

MSIC ... Well not really :hehe:

When the mouse started to move I then unplugged everything and it continued to move.

BUT

Unplugging everything then booting was a step I missed .... DOH ....

TheAnimus : Thanks. Yes it was a very satisfying fix !

Rosaline : Yes.... My wife said listen to the womans posts she'll be right you know ..... I suppose I should have learned by now ... ;-)

Thanks all

Ive literally had the exact same problem!

Mouse started moving on its own and without any specific direction.

I was so confused i scouted the web looking at these sort of forums looking for answers.

I downloaded and used umpteen anti viruses and tried new mouses etc.

Then i figured it out. By a stroke of pure dimwitted retardery that i am.

My iPod was face down on my BAMBOO tablet.

No wonder there was movement when i unplugged the mouse, the movement was coming from my tablet!!

Needless to say ive taken my ipod off my tablet and hey presto! no more movement.

Im sure this wont apply to many people out there, but i suppose what im trying to say is think outside the box on this one. :stupid:

Pure luck that I stumbled onto my thread again lol ! I had forgotten about this problem but it REALLY did my head in.

Manicman nice find :-)