Please advise - New rig £1k!!

[smoo-v]

Greetings to all

I am new to this forum and would greatly appreciate your advice.

I have been researching a new PC now and have slowly gone from considering an upgrade of core components of my current pc to a complete overhaul.

To get started here is a listing of my mostly 2 year old system. I could have kept this running another 6-12 months, but due to my graphics card failing and due to hastles with Overclockers.co.uk (DO NOT EVER BUY FROM THEM!) I have decided on a full rebuild.

OLD SYSTEM
* Asus A8N-SLi Premium nForce4 SLi (Socket 939) PCI-Express Motherboard (MB-111-AS)
* AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego 90nm (Socket 939) - Retail (ADA3700BNBOX) (CP-121-AM)
* Connect3D ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB GDDR3 AVIVO TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (3056) (GX-047-CO)
-> Eventually RMA'ed after much hastle to a Powercolor HD 3850 GDDR3 512mb. I intend to sell this as new, as not opened.
* Corsair 2GB DDR XMS3200C2PT TwinX (2x1GB) CAS2 (MY-079-CS)
* Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro
* Yeong Yang YY-0221 Cube Server Case -Black, Purchased additional THERMALTAKE A1280 12CM CASE FAN- front of case.
* 3 x Cooler Master AF9-25IM-74 Case Fan (92x92x25mm) - 2 back for hdds side of case, 1 side next to cpu.
* Antec TruePower 2.0 550W PSU (CA-028-AN)
* 2 x HITACHI Deskstar E7K500 HDS725050KLA360 (0A31619) 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
* 2 x Maxtor MaXLine Plus II SATA 250GB Hard Drive, 8MB Cache, 7200RPM, Model: 7Y250MO.
* Creative S750 7.1 Speakers
* Mitsubishi Diamond Plus 230Sb 22inch CRT
* BENQ DVD±RW DUAL LAYER 16x6x16x8x DW1640
* Logitech MX510 Mouse
* Zippy My Office Multimedia Keyboard
* Saitek P2600 Control Pad

From the above, I am likely to keep the speakers, the soundcard, the monitor, the DVD drive, the mouse, the keyboard and the control pad. However, I am not averse to a complete overhaul! I was also considering keeping the two 500gb drives, but am considering selling both to buy another 1tb drive 32mb cache.

I am fairly open to suggestion in regards to the new system, but the following is a rough guideline:
PLANNeD NEW SYSTEM
* Asus ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB GDDR5 TV-Out/Dual DVI/HDMI (PCI-Express) - Retail - Approx £230
-> Prefer Asus for 3 year warranty terms, but would consider other manufacturers with similar terms. Sapphire at £185-190 seems a reasonable price for 2 year warranty. Card would be expected to be worth around £30-40 after 2 years anyway.
-> Also considering 2* 4850 crossfire, but this is more expensive, does not have DDR5 and thus seems less upgradeable in the future. It also pumps out a lot of heat. For these reasons 4870 seems preferable.

* Corsair 4GB DDR2 XMS2 Dominator PC2-8500C5 TwinX (2x2GB) Supplied with Airflow Fan (TWIN2X4096-8500C5DF) 1066MHz at latencies of 5-5-5-15-2T at 2.1VDIMM.- £90 - £110
-> Also considering DDR3 if considered worthwhile. £150-190 for 4gb.

* Intel Quad Core Q6700 4 x 2.66Ghz 8Mb Cache 1066 FSB Quad Core Processor - £145 approx
- > Seems worth the small price difference from the Intel Core 2 Quad Pro Q6600 2.40GHz Guaranteed to run at 3.30GHZ (1466FSB) - Retail - £120-130
Either way, intend to overclock to around 3-3.3ghz.
- > Recently stumbled across reviews suggesting Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 2 x 3.16Ghz 6Mb Cache 1333 FSB Dual Core Processor - £150-160 or Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 2 x 3.00Ghz 6Mb Cache 1333 FSB Dual Core Processor £115- £130 may be better option.

* Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Socket 775 CPU Cooler £15- £19 or ThermalTake Big Typhoon 120VX for Socket 775, AMD K8 amd AM2 £30- £35 considered.

* Open to suggestion on motherboard, but Asus Rampage Formula S775 X48 Intel Chipset PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard PCI-E or Asus Rampage Formula S775 X48 Intel Chipset PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard PCI-E sound like the approximate requirements for effective system, though appears very expensive so may not need such pricey boards. £175 approx

* Similarly open to suggestion, but at a quick selction this seems reasonable: Zalman ZM850-HP Heatpipe Cooled High-efficiency 780W PSU equipped with a heat-pipe for effective cooling, providing power in a stable manner. £105 approx

* Western Digital VelociRaptor 300GB 10000RPM SATA-II 16MB Cache - £200 approx.
- > use as windows hdd. Was considering 2*150gb raptors in RAID-0, but does not seem worth the hastle. Limited benefit for high cost, increase risk of data loss, though of limited importance as only windows hdd.

* 2 x Samsung SpinPoint F1 1TB SATA-II 32MB Cache, plenty of storage to replace all existing hdds. - £100 each approx

* Antec Twelve Hundred Ultimate Gamer Case £100-£110 or Coolermaster Stacker 830 - Nvidia Special Edition - £160- £170
-> Yet to decide on decent case to replace my server case. The main reason for replacing existing case is to decrease heat and to obtain a case that provides a better solution at filtering dust. I could buy dust filters and mod case to add extra fans, but I'm not sure this will be as effective at cooling as new case. I don't want any issues with overclocking CPU or with gfx cards jumping, as appeared to be the case with the x1900xt overheating at around 70C (not overly hot for this card!) on Colin Mcrae Dirt (no real probs with other games).

Will max out with as many fans as considered necessary. My room is fairly warm in the summer. Water cooling seems like a lot of money for performance that will unlikely be of significance in most games for the high extra cost.

SUMMARY
Ok there we go a rough spec. It feels like I have spent ages researching to not get very far. Every time I research one component I start finding new information, e.g. originally was going to get 3870x2, but 4870 came out. Tempted to wait for 4870x2, but may not be worth the extra money, in terms of processor causing bottleneck.

I am uncertain in terms of motherboard, but X48 seems best to allow potential for crossfire, though I have never previously gone this route and wonder if I actually ever will, but there is no other board that seems to provide any other particulalry useful benefits in comparison.

DDR2 vs DDR3 seems unclear at this stage, with most suggesting DDR3 boards and RAM is not worth the extra cost, but it doesn't seem to be overly significant at the moment.

The 780 w PSU appears reasonable to ensure no worries with power. This may even be more then required, but would rather be safe with too much power then risk any performance issues with power defeciency.

As for the case, what I really want is something that can house all of that discussed above at the coolest temperature possible. I am not too worried about sound, but would preferably if quietier. Also particularly concerned about having decent dust protection, as current server case is happy to blow dust all over the place! I particularly like the style of my server case though. All the LEDs on these other cases seems distracting and annoying, especially if leaving PC on overnight or watching a film, etc. Would much prefer case with LEDs not on show, which is main concern about the Antec case that otherwise seems like excellent value.

Basically, I am happy to listen to suggestion on any part of the pc, including what I should/ shouldn't overclock. I have no experience with overclocking, so would like to keep it as straight forward as possible, but am certainly willing to do what is required to get good value for money with high performance. I do not play pc games as much as I used to, but when I do play I want to maximise the experience.

I have considered a new monitor for years, but do not see much benefit in LCD over CRT. LCD appears to limit resolution to maximise performance, i.e. native resolution, risk of dead pixels, ghosting (though appears to be less of an issue in last couple of years).

This is by far my biggest pc building project, so would greatly appreciate assistance across all fields. Any piece of information would be greatly appreciated. I do not necessarily have a strict budget one way or the other, but am interested in maximising price to performance. I do not see benefit in paying another £500 for components that will give a performance boost that is only going to be noticed in a benchmark and not in games!

[NovaSphere]

I'm not going to advise you to much, hence I'm building a PC of my own atm ;p

I would just say if you want to give overclock a try you could go for the E8400 or the Q6600, depending if you want Dual or Quad core. They aren't that expansive, saves you extra money to buy some monster graphic card =p (though with that money you can go for a better one straight away)

Want to add 1 more thing, if your buying a Western Digital VelociRaptor 300GB 10000RPM SATA-II 16MB Cache, just for running your OS, why get a 300GB one? I think a 50 to 70GB harddrive is more than enough for anything like that, might save you some more money, you still have your own HD's aswell.

[SiM]

1) Forget the raptor, get solid state if you want to go all out
2) Corsair TX650W is the best bang for buck PSU imo. Should be able to crossfire 4870s too
3) DDR 2 is fine... tiny performance gain not worth huge cost increase
4) x38 board will be just as good and will save you money. The DFI one is meant to be good.
5) Antec 1200 is the best thing I have ever bought. The P182 is meant to be good too...
6) Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme is a good cpu cooler to go for. The xigmatech 1283 cooler is meant to perform quite close to it and is much cheaper...

[smoo-v]

I'm not going to advise you to much, hence I'm building a PC of my own atm ;p

I would just say if you want to give overclock a try you could go for the E8400 or the Q6600, depending if you want Dual or Quad core. They aren't that expansive, saves you extra money to buy some monster graphic card =p (though with that money you can go for a better one straight away)

Want to add 1 more thing, if your buying a Western Digital VelociRaptor 300GB 10000RPM SATA-II 16MB Cache, just for running your OS, why get a 300GB one? I think a 50 to 70GB harddrive is more than enough for anything like that, might save you some more money, you still have your own HD's aswell.

The VelocitRaptor is quietier, cooler, and faster then the 150gb version and the 74gb version is much slower then then 150gb version. I could probably get away with 150gb, but I don't mind spending more on hdd, as its a longer term investment

[smoo-v]

1) Forget the raptor, get solid state if you want to go all out
2) Corsair TX650W is the best bang for buck PSU imo. Should be able to crossfire 4870s too
3) DDR 2 is fine... tiny performance gain not worth huge cost increase
4) x38 board will be just as good and will save you money. The DFI one is meant to be good.
5) Antec 1200 is the best thing I have ever bought. The P182 is meant to be good too...

Samsung 64GB 2.5" SATA Solid State Hard Drive - £460 approx. Huge cost for 64gb.

OCZ Core 128GB 2.5" SATA-II Solid State Hard Drive (OCZSSD2-1C128G) - £330 ish coming soon or
OCZ Core 64GB 2.5" SATA-II Solid State Hard Drive (OCZSSD2-1C64G) - £185 ish also coming soon may be a good alternative. I think the 128gb would be minimum requirement, as I will be installing, windows, games, programs, etc.

[format]

Don't bother with a velociraptor, realworld tests have shown other drives to be just as fast for half the price or less.

[smoo-v]

Don't bother with a velociraptor, realworld tests have shown other drives to be just as fast for half the price or less.

Is that not other drives in Raid-0?

[SiM]

320gb platter drives are faster for sequential access... access time is a bit slower though...

[staffsMike]

I doubt there is much difference between the Q6600 and Q6700 other than the multiplier, both G0 stepping and both seem to clock the same from what I have seen.
It's not a big difference in price but it's a difference none the less.

I'd personally stick to quad core, the E8500's seem a terrible waste of money at this point. E8400 is better but to be honest if you want dual then go for the E7200, overclocks well and its a better price for a dual core.

The raptor is a nice drive as long as you take it off it's heatsink thing, only then does it become quiet accord to SPCR, but it will be fast and cool none the less.
It is expensive for 300GB but less so than the solid state drives so in that respect I guess it's not too bad. In terms of gaming though we're only talking a few seconds of loading times etc.. Which to me isn't all that important but you may feel differenty.
The Western digital 640GB AAKS seems the best compromise for me at the moment, does very well in all it's reviews.

Out of your cases I would take the 1200 but probably wouldn't buy either with my own money. The P182 makes for a very nice quiet case while remaining cool and the coolermaster CM-690 does a great job of cooling and staying quiet for half the price of the 1200, though it isn't as big so if thats what you are looking for then I guess the 1200 makes the most sense. Wouldn't bother with the stacker, I think they're over priced.

If you are not planning on a big overclock (3.0-3.3GHz are very small for the motherboard) and only planning on single card (one HD4870 seems reasonable) then something like the older Abit IP-35 PRO would be my choice. A great overclocker, stable and cool, great quality and great service. It lacks PCIe 2.0, but show me a card that needs it, and only has 1333MHz FSB native, but then you are buying a 1066MHz chip so it hardly makes a difference. Also you only get PCIe 4x for crossfire.
you save a fair bit of money since they are only about £90 and you get a great board. The abit X38 is a reasonable compromise if you want all of the IP-35's missing features but quite honestly I can't think of reason for needing them.

The Q6600/Q6700 will only require PC6400 RAM to get them to 3.6GHz or below so I wouldn't bother with the PC8500.

The freezer is annoying as a cooler. The fan is capable of being very quiet but it doesn't cool enough at the speeds necessary to make it quiet, and when it's spinning up you don't have know about it. Sctyhe make nice quiet solutions as do xigmatec and Thermalright. Sctyhe I find to be the best balance in noise, quality and price but the xigmatec tower is a good option also if on a tight budget.

[NovaSphere]

It lacks PCIe 2.0, but show me a card that needs it

GTX 200 series =p?

GTX 260, that's the one I'm buying xD

[Zhaoman]

The Samsung F1 series and other big hard drives continue to outperform Raptors and Velociraptors, even WD's own Caviar series is faster. If you want speed, your 2 x 1Tb Samsung F1s will significantly outperform your Velociraptors. The only reason Raptors are so expensive is because of their low access times which doesn't make up for their low platter densities. In real world performance go for a big hard drive.

[Maccer101]

The Samsung F1 1TB drives are £89.99 on Ebuyer today, holy cow they keep getting cheaper!

Was going to buy one for storage, but these look so must faster than my current drive will probably have to migrate the OS to it also. How could anyone sleep at night knowing their data drive was faster than their boot drive

[NovaSphere]

Small side question, would it matter if your getting 1 HD and create 2 partitions on it, one partition for the OS and other programs, the other for games/files etc.
What that make a different or would it be the same as simply keeping it all on 1 main partition of the HD?

[smoo-v]

Small side question, would it matter if your getting 1 HD and create 2 partitions on it, one partition for the OS and other programs, the other for games/files etc.
What that make a different or would it be the same as simply keeping it all on 1 main partition of the HD?

Further to that what about two OS in seperate partitions? I am not sure about this either.

[shaithis]

Installing 2 OSes onto the same partition is very bad.

Having them on separate partitions is as good as having them on separate drives, especially when you consider the likelihood of accessing both OSes simultaneously.

[Mossy]

Nice system I would go for the Abit Ip35Pro XE and maybe a better cooler than the Arctic Cooler something like the Zalman.

If you wish to order all the parts from Scan I am sure I can look after your needs and ensure you have a good service with Scan.