Like I've been saying, anything around 2.4GHz on a dual/qaud is more than enough for gaming
Even the 2.2ghz phenom is good enoughOriginally Posted by staffsMike
Like I've been saying, anything around 2.4GHz on a dual/qaud is more than enough for gaming
I already know that my existing CPU is fine. It's not what i need, it's what i want! lol Isn't it always? Talk me out of upgrading why don't you!
I was in the exact same postition as you. Look: http://forums.hexus.net/hexus-hardwa...l-nehalem.html.
IMO I made a mistake by not holding out... for gaming @ 1920x1200 my 4400x2 was fine and I barely notice a difference with the quad...
Ciber (20-07-2008)
Yes you're probaly right I should wait for nehalem like I should have waited for core 2.
I have a slightly different perspective.
Unless you need the expected performance benefits of Nehalem (and not many people do), or have money to burn, Nehalem is likely to represent a very expensive way of buying a modest performance gain, for quite some time.
Even if it comes out as expected, you'll likely be looking at a significant first-adopter premium, and it's going (IMHO) take a while (probably a year, maybe more) for all the dust to settle, mainstream variants to become available and prices to settle.
So if you want it for bragging rights and can afford it when it comes out, great. Go for it. Meantime, what's gained, in terms of actual performance rather than just knowing you've got a system upgrade, over what you have right now? I don't mean benchmark figures, but what it'll let you do that you can't do right now? And, as a gamer, maybe a better place to spend money at this point would be the graphics board?
Personally (and, clearly, it's your money so your choice) I think I'd either aim a little higher right now (be it 8400 or Q6600, with a mid-range clockable and quality board) and give the Nehalem dust a good 18 months, maybe two years, to settle. Or I'd hold out with what I have now and jump in on Nehalem as soon as the release schedule reaches a point where it's available in the variants that you need and prices have reached affordability.
Either way, what you're proposing now seems like a fairly significant compromise, and not much actual gain for what it's gonna cost you. Of course, it's your money and if you want to do it because it's what you want, and you can afford it, then do it. I can certainly understand where you're coming from, and have done that myself a few times. But I usually look back and see it as impatience, and an expensive lesson in self-control. It seems like poor value for money to me. But hey, it's your money.
Ciber (20-07-2008)
Interesting points there, thanks.
Well I'm definitely thinking that my single core CPU has done it's time now. Dual core CPUs are pretty much de rigeur now in that some games specify minimum dual core. I have some money now and it seems to me there are some excellent price/performance CPUs around just now (E8400).
Of course it would be cheaper and less work to stick with what I have, but then again it's possible to stick with your old tech too long and get stuck in a rut. I like to upgrade regularly. Maybe I should just add my free X-Fi card in for now and enjoy that for a fix of shiny new tech. At least I've decied to keep the X-Fi card.
Last edited by Ciber; 13-07-2008 at 05:00 PM.
I usually find, Ciber, that there's no perfect solution.
You're right, of course, in some ways at least, it's possible to wait too long.
But .... to my way of thinking, the critical point is what you're trying to achieve.
If you're buying it (whatever "it" is) because you want it and can afford it, then fine. But, in relation to PCs, I seriously question whether most people actually really need even the level of technology (and performance) available now, let alone Nehalem. Oh, it's great having new toys, but what do the higher spec systems actually do for us? Sure, there'll be exceptions, and places where money is well-spent .... such as a heavily loaded servers, or those with very demanding applications.
But the days when new hardware releases made REAL differences are gone. For instance, I made one hardware change because speech recognition was practical as a result of the extra performance, but not practical (not in terms of everyday use, though it demonstrable) on the old hardware.
I've been there right at the front of technological releases, and on more than a few occasions, in front of them, where I've had pre-release hardware (such as cutting edge CPUs) to review, and then bought them, sometimes in advance of official release. There were the days when extra CPU power cut real-world time savings from some jobs, going back to when an AutoCAD redraw of a wire-frame space shuttle demo was measured in terms of how many tens of minutes it took to redraw, or where increasing resolution on a printer made a huge difference to photo realism, in that one was mistakeable for a proper photo when another clearly and evidently wasn't.
There are still areas where real-world gains can be made such that the gain made justifies the cost, literally, in terms of money saved from time saved. But, these days they're few and far between.
Which brings me to my point. What, really, is actually gained. It depends what you do with your PC. The machine I'm typing on right now is, by most people's standards, am antique. A museum piece. It's a Tyan Thunder K7 mobo, running a pair of Athlon 1200MP chips and RAMBUS memory. Yet, for the uses to which it's put (Word, web browsing, accounting, ..... mainstream stuff like that), it'll do everything I need and it'll do it every bit as satisfactorily as a state of the art machine would. I've been using this machine, for one thing or another, for ... oh, I don't know .... seven years? -ish.
Have I waited too long to upgrade? What would I have gained? Because I could have upgraded three times in that timeframe. But to achieve what?
I'm not suggesting that that strategy would suit everyone, and I do have faster machines here. Also, this (clearly) NOT a gaming machine. In fact, it's running an old FireGL2 graphics board that won't even run some of the games I've tried, and I don't mean modern ones. I mean contemporaneous games from the time this machine was state of the art.
My point is that it's all very well upgrading because you want to, but (IMHO) it's worth thinking about what you use the machine for, and what will give value for money.
These days, I usually buy in a way behind cutting edge. Personally, I would not consider going above E8400/Q6600 level right now for processor, unless I had a very demanding and processor-intensive need and,at the moment, I don't. But, again personally, I wouldn't go much lower than that either. A bit maybe, but not much.
It's about where the "sweet-spot" is. There's usually a point, with most technology, where the level of gain you get from going up a step reduces and the cost increases to the point where it isn't justified. Take hard drives. For me, right now, that 'value-for-money ' sweet spot is around 500GB, maybe 640GB. Given my needs, I would not buy 1TB drives, because for me, they aren't good value for money. I don't need maximum capacity, and the price premium isn't justified.
Of course, the goalposts move. A year ago, that sweetspot would have been 320GB. In a year's time, it'll probably be 1TB, and may have moved beyond E8400/Q6600 too.
And, obviously, different people will have different needs, so their sweet spot may be in a different place. I'm certainly not suggesting that people shouldn't buy CPUs faster than E8400/Q6600 or drives above 500GB/640GB. We each decide what the extra performance is, and how much we're prepared to pay for it.
That, really, is the question I'm asking of you ... or rather, suggesting you ask of yourself. If you go a particular route, whichever it is, will you get value for money?
And it's a personal choice.
I've spent, for example, a lot more on cameras than many people would, and a lot less than others would, or have. The same goes for cars. I've bought fairly expensive cars. I could have spent three times what I did on a car, but I wouldn't have got what, for me, was value for money. I could have spend a third of what I did and still got a nice car that would have done the job (i.e. got me from A to B safely, reliably and in reasonable comfort), but it wasn't what I wanted and the fancy motor was!
That, in my view, is your current problem. Are you spending money because you'll get good value for money from it? If so, do it.
Are you spending money because it's what you want, and are prepared to spend what it costs just because you want it? If so, do it.
But if you're spending money because you're getting impatient, and because you want to spend money and can't get what you want, and can't really afford to spend an extra hundred quid or so on a better mobo and CPU, then think real hard about whether you really want to spend what you are proposing to spend. Will it give you enough satisfaction to justify the cost, or will you either end up wishing you'd either not cut corners now and instead, done it properly, or that you'd not done it at all and saved the cost towards doing Nehalem properly as and when it's an option?
Only you know what you really want or, for that matter, the state of your finances.
Think it through, make your decision, live with the consequences and, if you made a mistake, learn from it.
And here ends today's sermon.
I've come to the conclusion that there is no point getting 4gb RAM as I'll be running windows XP 32 bit.
I've done some more shopping lists, so I'm going to post the two options I've come up with and come back to this later.
Option 1 - budget option.
E7200 http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=778510
Gigabyte GA P31-DS3L http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=657881
2gb PC-6400 5-5-5-18 http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=255300
Freezer 7 pro http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=340995
Total inc VAT and delivery £179.61.
I think this is a great base for a mid-range gaming system.
Option 2 - Mid Range Performance/ Good overclocking
E8400 http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=736334
ASUS P5K premium http://www.ebuyer.com/product/142854
2gb PC2-9200 (1150MHz) Reaper CL5 http://www.memoryc.com/computermemor...reapercl5.html
ThermalTake Big Typhoon 120VX (as reccomended in the Hexus Labs) http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/s...html?TT-TYP120
All for just under £300 inc delivery and VAT.
I think this would offer excellent overclocking and stability.
Last edited by Ciber; 13-07-2008 at 05:44 PM.
Why not combine the two?
I gaurantee you, you would not see a difference between the two CPU's. A true budget system would use the pentium dual core.
I wouldn't get the big typhoon, as good as it is it is no real match for the big towers such as the thermalright ultra extreme 120
The premium isn't a bad board but at the price jsut get an Abit IP-35 PRO, £95 on scan.
Great post there saracen, thanks. You posted that while I was making shopping lists! You're pointing me towards option 2 there. Option 3 being to spend nothing now. I have about £500 in the bank I've saved for upgrades, so I can afford it now. I don't think I'm being impatient. I think you're right, nehalem probably won't be called for for anything I need for some time now. So, an overclocked E8400 should do me nicely up until I need a nehaleam system or, indeed AMD come up with a decent answer to it, which can't be ruled out completely.
1; Yes I think an E8400 is great value for money. 2; Yes it's what I want and I am prepared to spend the money. Therefore I should do it, thanks.That, in my view, is your current problem. Are you spending money because you'll get good value for money from it? If so, do it.
Are you spending money because it's what you want, and are prepared to spend what it costs just because you want it? If so, do it.
Your point about combining the two points me back to my first shopping list tbh. I think it's worth spending the extra £50 for known overclockablilty though.Why not combine the two?
I gaurantee you, you would not see a difference between the two CPU's. A true budget system would use the pentium dual core.
I wouldn't get the big typhoon, as good as it is it is no real match for the big towers such as the thermalright ultra extreme 120
The premium isn't a bad board but at the price jsut get an Abit IP-35 PRO, £95 on scan.
Pentium dual core is too budget for my tastes.
I looked at the thermaltake as it is the best performer in this big Hexus labs test: http://www.hexus.net/content/item.ph...=8757&page=115 It outperforms the Thermalright Ultra 120 and all althers in their test. And they say it's easy to fit even with the mobo in the case. I like it as well because it offers good motherboard cooling, it looks like the fan blows down onto the VRMs etc which should help alot, unlike the scythe or the thermalright.
What makes that Abit board better? I tend to go by Custom PC reviews and they rate the ASUS P5K Premium in their Elite list. I trust CPC reviews. And Hexus reviews.
Anyhow, thanks for the input!
I know hexus found it to be best and as good as the hexus reviews are, they are pretty much the only ones who do find it to be best.
Tower coolers almost always out perform the top downs and they aid air flow which is nice
Well Abit themselves have far better support in Europe which is a big plus as ASUS.. suck.
The overlclocking potential of the two boards is down to a few MHz between them I believe, in both cases far more than you will ever need without water cooling. The ABIT has little touches like CMOS reseting switch, LED error code read out etc.. not sure if the ASUS has this but you will genereally find people on this board will go Abit over Asus as we have the very useful Abit.care forum here on hexus (at the top on the main forum).
There are hundreds of other sites that give reviews too. staffsmike is right, most of the reviews/comparisons the TRUE 120 comes out top (or in top 2 or 3), the big typhoon doesn't...
Hmm I like the look of the Scythe Mine now. Or is that actually not that good?
I'll definitely consider the Abit. Is the IP35 pro xe better than the plain pro? I've been using ASUS boards since about 2000 and I've never really needed any support. Very solid boards I've found. I do tend to trust ASUS boards over other makes therefore.
I'm the same with ASUS boards, never had a problem, but if you do... be prepared for some pain and mysery lol
The mine is pretty good yeah, I'd get that xigmatec on today only but both will give good cooling.
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