New PC spec check and advice

Hi all. Haven't got the cash atm but that doesn't stop me from planning my new PC. :p

I've already posted a thread on Hexus about graphics and I will probably go for a 4870 1Gb if and when Scan get them in.

Otherwise my initial PC spec is:
CPU: Q9550 - £217.25
Mobo: Asus P5Q-E - £95.69
RAM: 4GB DDR2 6400 4-4-4-12 - £65.38 if I get Corsair from Scan or £69.31 if I get Geil from OcUK. Is there any difference between Corsair or Geil?
Hard disk: Samsung 640Gb - £58.74 from OcUK as Scan don't have them yet. Samsung 1Tb F1 - £87.53
DVD: Samsung SH-223F - £15.15 Just speccing one atm. Is it worth getting two? I like to play FM and I HATE having to take discs out all the time so I like to have 2 DVD drives, one for FM say and the other for DVD movies and so on. :)
Graphics: 4870 1Gb (when Scan get them) - £173.89
Case: Open to suggestions on this but I like my Akasa Eclipse so I'm interested in the Akasa Omega - £123.25
PSU: Corsair HX 620W - £86.94
CPU Heatsink - Xigmatek HDT-S1283 - £22.27
OS: Vista Home Premium x64 OEM - £59.91

Pretty set on the CPU, mobo and PSU. Could be interested in the Tuniq Tower but Scan don't do that. I'm thinking a Samsung 640Gb (with 320Gb platters) as a fast but not Raptor etc costly boot disk and the Samsung 1Tb as my storage drive.

I haven't specced a sound card. I currently have an X-Fi Fatality and I want to avoid the Vista x64 driver issues so I could either try the onboard sound or buy a Xonar card. If Xonar which one? :p

Oh and I change my mind on fans everyday. I was an Akasa fan but I found some other 120mm fans that push a lot more air yet aren't that much louder. My brother has several of the Sharkoon 120mm fans in his 2 week old build and they are quite quiet and he's still not put the sides on! I think he got the slower Sharkoons to make the PC a bit quieter.

One issue I have with the fans is how many to get. One for the CPU heatsink and then the Akasa Omega case can take six. One in the front, one out the back, two exhausts on top and two intakes on the side. Would I benefit from using the 6 fan spaces or can I get away with fewer fans to keep a PC cool and therefore another case? Obviously I need a case that can fit a Tuniq Tower or the Xigmatek in and allow me to fit the side panels back on. I'd like a case that is fairly easy to cool and quiet as well. Hence my choice of the Akasa Omega based on my experiences with the Eclipse 62 and the new Omega having 6 fan spaces. Guide price for the case would be not much more than the £125 for the Akasa Omega. Having seen my brother's Antec 900 I don't mind it but I'm not keen on the LEDs on the fans and the Akasa Omega is more my kind of case really. Plus I think it is wider than the Antec 900/1200 so fitting a Tuniq Tower/Xigmatek should be easier?

Any recommendations, advice or info on my choices would be gratefully received. :)

that black dragon stuff is cheaper Here, although do you really need that?

i have the geil ultra stuff, and i think that staffs mike has it to and it's good stuff and never had a prob with it. no 2x2 kits although yuo can get 2gb sticks Here,

personally i think that a lot of the heatsink stuff on ram modules makes no odds to thermal performance. what i mean is that most slots are in front of the cpu/hsf anyway, so as long as there isn't a rats nest of cables in the way and there is decent airflow over the slots then heat shouldn't really be an issue but thats just me.

as for the hsf, also consider the TRUE-120 or the ultra-120, i have the ultra version and it's a nifty cooler and reading around others vouch for the TRUE version. maybe a tad more pricey than the others but worth it in my view and if you want it quiet then these come without fans which can be added.

I kind of want the Black Dragon "stuff" yes. :p Brother has it and is happy with it.

So either http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/...cat=706&page=2 or http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/...cat=706&page=2 for me. :mrgreen:

When you mean RAM heatsink do you mean the DHX Corsair stuff? I didn't choose it for that. I chose it for the 4-4-4-12 timings. :)

And as for the HSF I can't see any particular reason to spend a fair bit more on a TRUE when my brother's Tuniq Tower works well for him. :)

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Originally Posted by MarcLister

When you mean RAM heatsink do you mean the DHX Corsair stuff? I didn't choose it for that. I chose it for the 4-4-4-12 timings. :)

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the dhx stuff and the geil evo one stuff you mentioned in your first post. and the ultra sticks i have are 4-4-4-12 to :)

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Originally Posted by MarcLister

And as for the HSF I can't see any particular reason to spend a fair bit more on a TRUE when my brother's Tuniq Tower works well for him.:)

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you can get the ultra120 (not the extreme) and a fan cheaper than the tuniq, but like everything else it's all down to preference.

You've got Geil Ultra? Got a link to where you got it from?

The 1Tb Samsung uses 320Gb platters as well btw so it's got Velociraptor speed. Scan have the 640Gb WD drive on today only for £50 which is a great deal.

About the memory, current Intel CPUs barely benefit from lower timings at all. You could probably opt for a higher latency pair and put the extra few bob towards a fan controller or the extra DVD drive.

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Originally Posted by Zhaoman

About the memory, current Intel CPUs barely benefit from lower timings at all. You could probably opt for a higher latency pair and put the extra few bob towards a fan controller or the extra DVD drive.

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Won't really have those budget issues. :)

Lol fair enough :D

As mentioned about scan have a WD 640GB AAKS for £50, I would choose WD anyway but the saving and free delivery is always nice too.

I have the akasa eclipse too so if you go for the omega you will have to post some pics up :)
Other cases to consider are the Antec P182 for exceptional build quality and quiet. Coolermasters CM-690 which even at £60 (used to be £45) still provides a great functionality/space/noise/cooling (everything really) trade off.

I take it there is no overclocking going on with this PC? If there is though the Q6600 makes for a better buy.

I'm a big fan of geil ram but if there is no overclocking going on it won't make a blind bit of difference.

-Im one to second the Tuniq tower, had mine a month and its awesome!
-Noctua make supposedly amazing fans which shift tons of air with almost silence, they are a tad pricey because of this thor (£12-15) for a 120mm.
-Between Corsair and Geil, just look for the fastest speed with the tightest timings. Heat spreaders are good if overclocking but im not entirely sure how much difference a different shaped heatspreader for your ram will make.

With the P5Q-E, Im not that familiar with it, but ive heard that the P5k Premium wifi-ap is a very very good board for reliability and oc'ing, it may be worth considering that route.

Last thought, dont forget Nahelm(sp?) isnt too far away!

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Originally Posted by MarcLister

I haven't specced a sound card. I currently have an X-Fi Fatality and I want to avoid the Vista x64 driver issues so I could either try the onboard sound or buy a Xonar card. If Xonar which one? :p

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I've got a x-fi fatal1ty and have had no issues in 64-bit vista..... but if you do then choice is really down to how much you value your sound and what you can spend on it. onboard sound has become alot better than in the past. if you value you're sound and have pretty decent speakers then going for a discreet card is the only way you'll be satisfied. in terms of the xonar, there's the two full-fat editions the D2 and D2X compared with the skimmed down DX (the D1 is coming out or already out now, not sure which though) The X just means it connects via PCI-E as opposed to PCI. two things to consider are will you have a spare PCI-E slot free and also whether you need the extra features like more inouts and DTS. there's also the HDAV versions which can handle true-HD but can't say much about them as i've only just found out they exist

Hi,

Regarding the DVD drives - not sure if other people have this problem, but I have 2 DVD drives. I always make sure they are different manufacturers / models. I've found that one drive in the past had a problem with some game disks (due to the copy protection on them I guess), whereas a different drive had an issue with some DVD films, By having 2 makes, if a disk doesn't wok in one, it'll probably work in the other.

Cheers!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarcLister

You've got Geil Ultra? Got a link to where you got it from?

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microdirect 2gig sticks

microdirect is where i got mine from, only because scan don't stock geil - i won't deal with ocuk again and both microdirect and scan are both up the road so no delivery charges :)

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Originally Posted by staffsMike

As mentioned about scan have a WD 640GB AAKS for £50, I would choose WD anyway but the saving and free delivery is always nice too.

I have the akasa eclipse too so if you go for the omega you will have to post some pics up :)
Other cases to consider are the Antec P182 for exceptional build quality and quiet. Coolermasters CM-690 which even at £60 (used to be £45) still provides a great functionality/space/noise/cooling (everything really) trade off.

I take it there is no overclocking going on with this PC? If there is though the Q6600 makes for a better buy.

I'm a big fan of geil ram but if there is no overclocking going on it won't make a blind bit of difference.

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Tbh I've seen nothing that take my eyes away from the Akasa Omega. Brother's Antec 900 looks nice but the LED fans would get on my nerves. So I'll probably end up getting the Omega. I will of course post pics for you. :)

Probably won't bother with overclocking on this. Would the Q6600 be better for any overclocking or just if planning to overclock past a certain speed?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wills

-Im one to second the Tuniq tower, had mine a month and its awesome!
-Noctua make supposedly amazing fans which shift tons of air with almost silence, they are a tad pricey because of this thor (£12-15) for a 120mm.
-Between Corsair and Geil, just look for the fastest speed with the tightest timings. Heat spreaders are good if overclocking but im not entirely sure how much difference a different shaped heatspreader for your ram will make.

With the P5Q-E, Im not that familiar with it, but ive heard that the P5k Premium wifi-ap is a very very good board for reliability and oc'ing, it may be worth considering that route.

Last thought, dont forget Nahelm(sp?) isnt too far away!

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Excellent. Will spec the Tuniq tower then. Brother has it and isn't causing any problems for him. :)

As for fans I was looking at the Noctuas but they are quite pricey. The 1200rpm model moves 48CFM but only 17dB. :rockon2:

And yes I do realise that the longer it takes me to get a graduate job and therefore the money for a new PC I sail closer to the Nehalem window. Would it be worth getting the current spec when Nehalem is out so it would be much cheaper or is Nehalem such a major development it would be worth waiting for the prices to stabilise and go that way? I've read that Nehalem will be able to run CPUs at a similar speed or faster than the current chips but using much less power?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rufeo

I've got a x-fi fatal1ty and have had no issues in 64-bit vista..... but if you do then choice is really down to how much you value your sound and what you can spend on it. onboard sound has become alot better than in the past. if you value you're sound and have pretty decent speakers then going for a discreet card is the only way you'll be satisfied. in terms of the xonar, there's the two full-fat editions the D2 and D2X compared with the skimmed down DX (the D1 is coming out or already out now, not sure which though) The X just means it connects via PCI-E as opposed to PCI. two things to consider are will you have a spare PCI-E slot free and also whether you need the extra features like more inouts and DTS. there's also the HDAV versions which can handle true-HD but can't say much about them as i've only just found out they exist

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Thanks. I only have headphones atm, well kind of headphones. They plug into my hearing aids so I might hear some difference between onboard sound and a dedicated card but not as much as most normal hearing people. I am thinking of getting a decent set of speakers at some point so I can watch DVDs and game etc without being right up to the PC as the headphone cables demand I must be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maverick77_uk

Hi,

Regarding the DVD drives - not sure if other people have this problem, but I have 2 DVD drives. I always make sure they are different manufacturers / models. I've found that one drive in the past had a problem with some game disks (due to the copy protection on them I guess), whereas a different drive had an issue with some DVD films, By having 2 makes, if a disk doesn't wok in one, it'll probably work in the other.

Cheers!

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Good point. I currently have this situation, not by design but by accident. Sometimes DVDs won't work in one but will work in the other. However sometimes just switching between VLC and MPC seems to do the trick for me. But I will keep that in mind. :)

If you are willing to overclock then a Q6600 will happily run Q9550 speeds. but if you are willing to overclock the Q9550 no doubt if will go a lot higher than a Q6600.

Genereally a Q6600 will be quite content around 3.2-3.4GHz. They will go to 3.66 -3.8GHz but this will be starting to push them quite hard and certainly with air cooling.

It'll be great if you can post some pics because although I do prefer my P182 to the eclipse I still have a soft spot for it :) And it is massive inside :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by staffsMike

If you are willing to overclock then a Q6600 will happily run Q9550 speeds. but if you are willing to overclock the Q9550 no doubt if will go a lot higher than a Q6600.

Genereally a Q6600 will be quite content around 3.2-3.4GHz. They will go to 3.66 -3.8GHz but this will be starting to push them quite hard and certainly with air cooling.

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Hmm still preferring the Q9550. :) Would it be worth waiting for Nehalem? Some quick Wiki'ing suggests similar processing speeds but for 30% less power usage. I'm guessing I'd have to wait until Jan/Feb at the earliest for decent prices on Nehalem chips and boards?

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Originally Posted by staffsMike

It'll be great if you can post some pics because although I do prefer my P182 to the eclipse I still have a soft spot for it :) And it is massive inside :D

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My Eclipse was my first proper, thought out case and it is indeed massive and I've had no problems with it for three years now. If the Omega has three times the fans and yet remains an absolute beast of a case in terms of its space then I'm going for it.

No idea when I can scrape the cash together for this but I will post pics of the Omega when I get it. :)

Nehalem will probably be expensive in the beggining but given your budget it might be worth waiting for it.

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Originally Posted by staffsMike

Nehalem will probably be expensive in the beggining but given your budget it might be worth waiting for it.

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:p

Any idea when Nehalem is out? And how long to wait until prices stabilise? Or perhaps any links I can check out? :)

First chips are Q4 this year I believe. It's reffered to as core i7 (stupid name I know) if you want to have a google around for the latest.

Yeah my Wiki searching mentioned i7. I agree seems a stupid name. i7 sounds like some kind of road in the US of A.

Unless your minted and want some possibly flawed, overpriced rig that doesn't support everything straight away, then dont bother with Nehalem just yet, wait til Q1/2 09, or alternatley, get a PC now and dont worry about Nehalem for a couple of years til its truly utilised by Windows 7 and a few games (Crysis 3 anyone?).

I would think (want) a Q9550 based system will last 2 - 3 years minimum so nehalem really won't (or shouldn't lol) be on your mind for a long time.

If you think you will want i7 early on then I suggest you get a cheap mobo, pentium dual core and 2GB of RAM now for about £100-£120.

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Originally Posted by richieuk

Unless your minted and want some possibly flawed, overpriced rig that doesn't support everything straight away, then dont bother with Nehalem just yet, wait til Q1/2 09, or alternatley, get a PC now and dont worry about Nehalem for a couple of years til its truly utilised by Windows 7 and a few games (Crysis 3 anyone?).

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by staffsMike

I would think (want) a Q9550 based system will last 2 - 3 years minimum so nehalem really won't (or shouldn't lol) be on your mind for a long time.

If you think you will want i7 early on then I suggest you get a cheap mobo, pentium dual core and 2GB of RAM now for about £100-£120.

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Think you both just made my mind up for me. If I wait for Nehalam I could be waiting until next summer and I think that is too long. I could get the money for a Q9550 system much sooner and use that for 2-3 years until Nehalem has matured.

Stupid question time but is 8Gb with Vista x64 worth it or stick with 4Gb for the moment?

And would I really be OK with 5-5-5-18 or seeing as I can afford it is the 4-4-4-12 OK? :)

I doubt you will see a huge benefit from it but it can all be addressed by x64.

6-8GB is considered by Corsair a saturation point, get to 8GB, and you'll never really see much difference, so 4GB should be ok for now. The 4.4.4.12 timings ram would be fine though if you can afford it, as its not really a budget build and will help a little, just make sure the heat-dissipator isn't so big it'll clash with your heatsink. If this is the case, the standard latency ram should be smaller (especially in Corsairs case)

Btw, thank you for the thank you. :)

Ok, thought I'd forgot to post the post above and re-wrote it. Ooops :)

What I wrote again though

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Originally Posted by RichieUK - Doubleposting retard

8GB is considered by Corsair as a saturation point. Its just too much to see a real difference 95% of the time. (In comparison to the difference between 2GB/4GB)

The Black Dragon memory should be small enough to fit under the fan on the Xigmatek heatsink (I recieved my Xiigmatek heatsink today and its HUUUUGEEEE) so the low latency sticks would be fine :) If it was corsair however, you may have to check dimensions. You wont see alot of difference, infact, if you don't test them side by side, you might never notice it, but for the price difference, its not the worst investment you could make by treating yourself to low latency RAM.

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Originally Posted by staffsMike

I doubt you will see a huge benefit from it but it can all be addressed by x64.

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Yeah I might stick with 4Gb for the moment. Will be more than enough. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by richieuk

6-8GB is considered by Corsair a saturation point, get to 8GB, and you'll never really see much difference, so 4GB should be ok for now. The 4.4.4.12 timings ram would be fine though if you can afford it, as its not really a budget build and will help a little, just make sure the heat-dissipator isn't so big it'll clash with your heatsink. If this is the case, the standard latency ram should be smaller (especially in Corsairs case)

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I won't be overclocking much, if at all, so I don't think I need memory heatsinks. I'm set on the Geil stuff which doesn't have RAM heatsinks. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by richieuk

Btw, thank you for the thank you. :)

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No probs. :) Thanks for helping.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by richieuk

Ok, thought I'd forgot to post the post above and re-wrote it. Ooops :)

What I wrote again though

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:p

BUMP!

Possibly able to buy to buy today or tomorrow. :) Just wanted to do a final spec check and see what people say/think.

My spec:

• CPU - Q9550 (not bothered if I get E0 or not really.)

• Motherboard - Asus P5Q-E

• RAM - 4Gb DDR2 OCZ 6400 4-4-4-15 (have specced 8Gb. Is that silly? Silly enough to not bother?)

• HDD - WD 640Gb

• HDD - Samsung 1Tb

• DVD - Pioneer DVR-216BK (Model that can read/write DVD-RAM, worth it for just a little extra I think. Going to get two of these, anything to suggest about that? I like to have FM cd in permanently so I "need" another optical drive for other discs. :p)

• Graphics card - ATI 4870 1Gb

• Case - Akasa Omega

• PSU - Corsair HX 620W

• Case fans - Six Sharkoon 2000 120mm

• Sound card - Asus Xonar D2

• CPU heatsink - Noctua NH-U12P

• Heatsink fan - Noctua NF-P12 (extra fan so I can have two on the above heatsink in a push/pull config. Read some reviews that suggest I can get a few degrees off temps with the Noctua HS and two fans. :)

• OS - Vista Home Premium x64 OEM

• Monitor - Yuraku 24'' YV24WBH1

• Fan filter - Three 120mm aluminium fan filters (for the three intake fans I'll have on case)

And some other bits and pieces such as Arctic Silver 5 paste and some CAT6 cables so I can network my two PCs at Gigabit speeds. Also need to buy a DVI-D cable as monitor won't have one included.

So have I missed anything out? Or overlooked a better choice for a component?

I would think the sharkoon 2000's are quite noisey, unless you are planning to undervolt them. I would probably get some scythe slipstreams or nexus/yate loons.

You would get away quite happily with the 520W HX as well.

Looks like a really nice build though :)

So change it to six Scythe Slipstreams or Yate Loons? Ironically the Sharkoon 1000s are more expensive than the 2000s on Scan. :D

Scythes like this? Getting into Noctua range really in terms of price. Found a Yate Loon which moves as much air as the Noctua but is louder.

Might just go for Sharkoon 1000s instead. Increases budget a bit but not that much :)

And 520W HX will be enough? :p Didn't realise that.

I wouldn't get 6, not to begin with anyway. I know it takes that many but you won't see much of an advantage with all 6 I think.

4 would be good I think, one at the front, back, side and top :)

I'd get the fans here, those scythe's aren't the right ones on scan. These have scythe and yate loons.
http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/...me.php?cat=885

Cheers staffsMike. What is SpecialTech like regarding cost of delivery and speed? Kosher firm all round?

Which one would you recommend? http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/...cat=885&page=1 or http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/...cat=885&page=2.

Quite impressed with the Yate Loon tbh. Only £3.99! :p

Yeah yate loons are very good especially if you get the slow ones or undervolt them, one of the very best and for £3.99 they are a bargain really.

Yep all kosher, I believe delivery is about £5.50 though.. still not too bad.

Chilled Pc have some cheap delivery options, not used them myself though
http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/prod...roducts_id=230

Will check them out as well.

Oh and any thoughts on the RAM. 4Gb OK? Or shall I indulge myself and get 8Gb? :p

I would say, if you don't know the reason for getting 8GB of RAM you don't need it :)

4GB is enough for almost anyone.

Excellent! Another £60 saved. Ta muchly. :)

I have used both Specialtech and Chilled PC both sent out the orders quickly, with ChilledPC probably just winning out Tom is on here somewhere as well and if you have a problem I'm sure he will be only to happy to help you out.

Hello Webby. Who is Tom?

Tom is the owner of ChilledPC :) WelshTom I think is his forum name.

Cheers Webby.

How could I undervolt the Yate Loons? I have to say I'm still leaning towards getting the Sharkoon 1000s from Scan with free delivery. :)

Undervolting can be achieved in a few ways the easiest is to get a fan controller or use controllable fan headers on your motherboard, next come resisters place them in the 12v line to reduce the voltage to the fan, then you have the lets fiddle with how the fan connects to the PSU so it draws on the 5v rail rather than the 12v rail and finally the lets connect the ground to the 5v rail so we draw 7v (12v-5v = 7v)

The motherboard/fan controller options are the most versatile and in my opinion the best option, I would consider using resisters I probably wouldn't want a fan running at 5v constantly and the are risks involved in the 7v trick as you send 5v back up the 12v line which can be no good for your PSU.

So yes fan controller I would say get the Yates and if you were going to get 4 fans you would save £15 buying them over the Sharkoons put that £15 towards a decent fan controller like the Scythe Kaze Master ~£30 or if you would like something a bit more basic then the Zalman ZM-MFC1 ~£20 or potentially the Sunbeam Rheobus ~£15 which fits in a 3.5" bay. All available from ChilledPC although the Kaze Master is a little cheaper on Scan.

Nice. I must ask if you are on commission from Tom? :p

The Scythe Kaze Master does look quite nice. Was thinking the other day about a fan controller but saw the ones I found only controlled 3 and I was going to get 6. The Scythe Kaze Master can control 4 and I'll just be getting 4 fans now I think.

A quick check of Scythe Kaze Master on ChilledPC seems to imply that I might be able to adjust the voltage as well as fan speed using the Scythe Kaze Master? Is that right? So I could have the fans on 5V as standard and then if it gets hot I can up the voltage to 12V? Or can I not adjust the voltage that easily?

Many thanks for your help. :)

Yep that is exactly what fan controllers do alter the fan voltage. So you could have the fans at 5v and then when you do some gaming turn them up a bit for increased airflow when silence is less important.

Oh and no not on commission just appreciate the speed of service from them, and while I have not needed to contact them, from looking at their forums they are easily approachable and looking to please.

Sweet. So can I alter fan speed and voltage independently of each other? So set voltage to 5v then alter the fan speed between the limits of 5v then if I ramp the voltage back up to 12v have a wider fan speed ratio to choose from?

No fan speed is directly related to voltage so as you lower the voltage the fan speed goes down that is what the fan controller does. So for example a fan may run at 1000rpm at 5v, 1200rpm at 7v, 1400 rpm at 9v and 1700rpm at 12v depending on what voltage you select using the fan controller will determine the fan speed, now most fan controllers do not tell you what voltage they are running at but provide you with a fan rpm which will change as you adjust the voltage, neither the voltage or the fan rpm are really important what is important is the level of noise and the temperatures in your case.

Ah so by changing the voltage on the controller I change the fan speed?

Exactly, but you will not have a reading of voltage only fan RPM.

KK. So how do I know when I've changed the voltage? I assume that by reducing the fan speed to 1000 or whatever automatically changes the voltage down from 12v to 5v?

Sorry for the persistent questions, not 100% sure about all this and want to be sure that I know what I'm doing or more precisely what I will be doing. :)

Any point in going for 5-5-5-18 RAM or will I be OK/better off with 4-4-4-12 etc?

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Originally Posted by MarcLister

Any point in going for 5-5-5-18 RAM or will I be OK/better off with 4-4-4-12 etc?

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The lower the timeings the better but all told there's not a great deal of differnce.
If 's only a quid or two I'd go with the lower timeings but if it's £10 or so I'd go for the higher timeings.
Depends on your budget

On fans, here are some basic rules of thumb
- Don't trust the numbers, they make a good rough guide but don't fully trust them, there's no single standard for fans.
- 1000 rpm or lower are near enough slient but don't move much air
- 1200-1600 rpm are low sound and move a good amount of air
- 1800 rpm or higher are loud but move a lot of air.
- All fans run at 12v the rpm of differnt models are done within the fan by a resistor or within the motor.
- A fan controller works by reduceing the voltage which reduces the fan speed. slow speeds ruduces noise and air flow.

I'll expand on some of this as they are rough rules of thumb and some of the tricks done to skew the numbers.
Some fans have more blades than others, makers can use this to claim higher rpm.
LED fans (ok you said you don't like them but I'll mention this anyway) the lower the voltage the less they "glow", so slowing down an LED fan with a fan controller also reduces the brightness of the LEDs
Generally I'd say advoid anything under £5 as low cost is achieved through use of lower quality plastics (thiner + less dense = more flex) lower tolerances especially on fan blade ballence (more unballenced = more vibration) and cheaper bearings. (again this is generally)

The Scythe S-FLEX fans are expensive at £12 each, but are very solid and heavy and very high quality.

A few people rate the Noctua fans for low noise + good air flow, while I've not used one myself, the sharp blade pitch shows they are designed for low speed higher air flow.
I'm willing to bet that they move more air than other fans at the same speed/sound level, but will not move more air than faster spinning fans.

Yate Loon's these fans break the rules as they are basic low cost fans that are not as bad as most low cost fans and a a good quality.
They where plagued with a lot of cheap copies eairly on. :( but the specialtech ones look kosha :)

Have a read through the spcr fan round ups they are a fairly good guide
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article739-page6.html
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article695-page6.html

Thanks Pob. Lovely post. :)

Just put the new PC together today. Used a Q9650, Asus P5Q-E, 4Gb OCZ DDR RAM, 4870 1GB etc.

Plugged DVI cable into monitor and graphics card. Turned PC on, nothing. Checked I was on DVI mode then I got a message saying "No Input detected". This was using a DVI cable I bought as I was told the monitor didn't have one with it. It did, albeit a DVI at one end and HDMI at the other. The 4870 came with a HDMI/DVI adapter so I used the monitor supplied cable and still nothing, so not the cables. I tried the new monitor on my old PC and I got an image on the screen that I expected. So the monitor works.

I then tried using my current GPU (x1800XT) in the new PC. Still nothing. So perhaps the mobo? So to be sure I tried the 4870 in my old PC. Nothing. More likely to be the GPU now instead of the mobo? Then I decided to resurrect my old PC so I could go online and find some help. Uh oh! Now this won't boot. My old monitor saying no signal coming from PC which surely implies static discharge as it was working before I put it in new PC but not after. However the new PC had the PSU in and plugged into the mains.

I then used my Mum's laptop (am using it now) and realised that there should be some BIOS beeps if there were errors. So I plugged the speaker back in so I could listen for any beeps on power up. Nothing. A check of the manual and a successful boot should result in a single short beep. No beep at all. Does sound like the mobo has gone.

The manual also says that if no RAM or GPU is detected then there will be a pattern of beeps. So I remove RAM and the beep pattern expected for no RAM doesn't occur. Same for removing GPU. Sounding increasingly like the mobo has gone. So no BIOS beeps at all on this mobo (successful boot or otherwise) suggests the mobo is definitely gone. Either damaged in some way or I've somehow been careless and somehow caused a static discharge which could have affected the 4870. But for pretty much the whole day the new PSU has been plugged into the case and into the mains so the new case should have been earthed for most of the day. However if there has been static discharge putting the 4870 into my old PC could possibly have carried the static discharge over? And putting my x1800XT into the new PC the same. So that could explain why neither PC will boot and both PCs prompt the monitors to say "No input detected".

The only thing that makes me not believe static discharge has affected my old PC is that it was definitely earthed. So only the 4870 coming over already affected could have caused an issue with my old PC.

I've tried taking one stick of RAM out and booting with that. Nothing. Used the other stick on its on and same result. Took the sound card out and nothing. Reset the BIOS by moving the BIOS jumper over for 10-15 seconds. Still nothing. I also unplugged the Samsung 1Tb drive and the Pioneer DVD-RW drive from their SATA sockets leaving the WD640Gb disk on its own. Nothing.

So after a long ramble can anyone else suggest anything I can do with the two PCs I have to test. My old PC is a 939 so I can't swap the CPUs. I want to do as much testing as I can before I have to RMA anything. If I do have to RMA what should I RMA? The mobo and GPU?

Please accept my apologies for this long post but it has been a long day and I've no idea what is wrong and how I can fix it.

If you had your components from SCAN then give them a ring in the morning and they will raise a RMA for you and you can send it all back. They will then test it and replace what is U/S.

This is what they did for me when I had a problem with a new MB, RAM & CPU.

Sent it away, tested and returned within a week.

Cheers piggin23. I've just realised I didn't plug the 8pin power socket in. :D Trying that now. If that doesn't work then it could be an RMA but hopefully not.

That sounds like your problem.

It was. How could I forget that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by staffsMike

It'll be great if you can post some pics because although I do prefer my P182 to the eclipse I still have a soft spot for it :) And it is massive inside :D

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Better late than never eh! Been running this since early November but only just got around to taking pics. :embarrassed:

Case sideways on
Case front end on
Case sideways on but panel removed
Gratuitous shot of the twin-fan-cooled Noctua UH-12P heatsink. :cool: The fan on the right blows air onto the cooler. Fan on left sucks air off and pushes it towards the rear exhaust fan.
Memory slots look OK and free, ripe for another 4Gb pack.
SATA slot - To the right of the furthest right RAM slot, under the SATA 3 text and behind the graphics card is what I thought was my last free SATA port. I should be OK with a right-angled SATA cable in there but the red mass to the right are SATA ports 4 and 5. The red cables coming from ports 1-3 for my two hard drives and my optical drive. So I reckon I can plug in a Blu-ray optical drive into port 4 say.