My shopping list for a new PC - any thoughts?

[alanR]

Thought for a long time - read lots of reviews of the parts - want something powerful with a bit of future proofing for good measure - happy to pay for some quality - so this is the list as it stands right now - any thoughts, comments, constructive ideas or compatability issues?

I have chosen XP for today, have no interest in Vista, but would like to think the system would be able to take on Windows7 whenever that hits the market in a few years time.

Considering future upgrades. Processor - I think it will be a long time before socket 775 chips are no longer able to offer good level of performance. Memory - the mobo offers up to four times more than I propose fitting on day one. Graphics cards are plugins, as are HD's. Can you think of any other upgrade paths I have not considered?

I have no interest in overclocking per se, but do not think I have tended towards that in my choices below, and as such have relied on case fans and retail processor fan for cooling.

Intel core2duo 8400
Corsair 2G of XMS2 Dominator
Graphics card - BFG 9600GT (dual DVI)
Motherboard - Asus P5QL SE
PSU - Corsair HX520W
HD - 250G Western Digital Caviar Blue

Case - Gigabyte Triton180 - just bought that - its a lovely piece of kit.

Keyboard, mouse, screens (I want dual monitors) have yet to be finalised, but I dont think these impact on overall performance quite as much as the 6 items above.

Look forward to your comments, and TIA

[staffsMike]

Since core i7 is the new thing I doubt there will be great improvement of the S775 chips available now, I could be wrong though.

Dominator RAM is aimed at overclockers really, I'd stick with XMS2 from corsair, it's cheaper and will do the same job.

The E8400 isn't a bad chip but it's a touch pricey as dual cores go. I'd be sticking with the E5200 which will very easily overclock to 3.0GHz if that is a concern. I know you said no overclocking but you might not feel the need for it anyway as 2.5GHz is pretty nippy as is.

Is there gaming involved, you don't really mention your intend uses?

The PSU is fine, a touch overkill tbh.. 400W would be ample with room to breathe.

If you go to a 320GB samsung/WD single platter you will get far better performance.

[McstylisT]

Hi AlanR ,

Some excellent choices you have there. Will make a massive difference for you.

If you looking to keep this setup for a good while then i would personally look at these areas to consider.

PSU - 750w TX @ £88 scan = http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?W...l+80%25%2b+Eff

This is due to future upgrades you might do. It will power a high end system , and even a high end graphics card. A good price for £88 , and a fine PSU.

Maybe larger HD - Maxtor 500GB with 32MB catch ( I have one , fine units ). @ £44 you cant go wrong = http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?W...+8.5+ms%2c+NCQ

This will be a fine system , with plenty of room for expansion in the future.


PS - Just noted that you are going with a P43 option. I would suggest a P45 , although more expensive @ about £80+.

Hope this helps.

MctylisT

[DaveVader]

I don't agree with McstylisT on the PSU, 620watt is ample for practically all home PC's and will be fine if you decide to upgrade (even to i7 and some other power hungry things) Plus, the TX750 isn't modular, the HX520 is.
I agree with Mike, the E5200 and a larger harddrive.

[staffsMike]

If the corsair 450W HX come's out before you buy all this it might be worth getting that if you don't expect to be going graphics card crazy any time soon.

I'm actually really impressed with this (money wise)
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...odid=CA-033-OC

EDIT: Ignore that the swines have raised the price, Enermax Modu82+ is better at that money.

It's supposed to be very quiet and efficent too. Although I don't perhaps rate OCZ as highly as seasonic (or seasonic built corsairs) and Enermax my gameXstream is going strong

[McstylisT]

I don't agree with McstylisT on the PSU, 620watt is ample for practically all home PC's and will be fine if you decide to upgrade (even to i7 and some other power hungry things) Plus, the TX750 isn't modular, the HX520 is.
I agree with Mike, the E5200 and a larger harddrive.

You are correct. 620w Corsair would be more than enough for normal everyday running.

Maybe i should have been more clear in my post. Obviously in the future if he wanted to maybe use a Quad core CPU , or crossfire. Maybe even raid 0 in 4 Hd's. ?? Then would it be ok then. ?? Maybe the 620w would be , but i would rather go higher for slightly more and be sure personally. PS- I did not realise the TX 750w was not modular , thanks for pointing that out. Important thing.

You never know what's round the corner in this game. I guess it depends on user budget too. If your budget is restricted then obviously go with the cheaper. But i always found myself having to replace parts after a shorter period of time rather than buying the bigger better component in the first place.

But I agree the 620w corsair is sufficient.

McT

[alanR]

Thank you all for your comments - most appreciated.

I will look further at some of the suggestions.

As this is my first self build Im glad none of you started talking about things I didnt understand, been doing a lot of research so getting quite clued up, but was able to latch on to all your points.

On the HD front - what are the pros/cons of 2 drives, OS and applications on 1 drive, all other user files etc on other - what are your thoughts?

Just got back from PCWorld where I got 50% off a Logitech keyboard, so the futures looking good (see my post in bargains somewhere around retail therapy?)

But for now, back to the research, looking forward to more feedback and will keep y'all posted

Hi AlanR ,

Some excellent choices you have there. Will make a massive difference for you.

You maybe underestimated just how massive a difference I am anticipating, presently running W98 on P11 350Meg with vga graphics, 13G HD and a little 15" crt. I want better, and 8 years down the line I reckon Im just about ready for it

Thanks

Alan.

[mat-ster]

Alan go for a bigger hard drive the cost difference is worth it in the long run..
What monitor are you looking at?

This article will help http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...buy-nov-2008/2

[alanR]

On the memory front

Original chose Corsair 2G of XMS2 Dominator, but it was suggested XMS2 would be adequate rather than Dominator (aimed at overclockers), so I looked again at Scan memory.

Only see straight XMS2 as a 2x1G (LN11596) but at 800Mhz as opposed to Dominator solution at 1066Mhz.

Ok its cheaper, but slower

I'm after keeping things as nippy as possible, so are we just in a speed vs cost situation?

1066Mhz seems better even if not being overclocked (implication being for the cost its well within its spec and ready for OC), as opposed to 800Mhz, slower and with no OC options, but cheaper.

Your thoughts?

Alan.

[alanR]

Alan go for a bigger hard drive the cost difference is worth it in the long run..
What monitor are you looking at?

This article will help http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...buy-nov-2008/2

Thanks for your comments.

Yes perhaps a larger HD would be more cost efficient, but when you realise I presently exist with just 13G !!! 250/320/500 is all a bit "phew"

But yes - for another tenner I agree you can almost double the capacity.

Screens? Well Ive not yet made a final decision on make/model, but am looking at two 1280x1024 monitors, and havent yet finally decided whether I can squeeze 2 19" on my desk or not. Will go with 17" if the 19's dont fit.


Thanks
Alan.

[mat-ster]

Alan, go for a widescreen monitor - again the marginal cost increase will be more than worth it!
Matt

[Webby]

Alan, you state that you plan on not overclocking and have picked a processor which out of the box will be plenty fast enough for all everyday tasks.

While yes in theory faster memory is better in practice you see very little difference, apart from in the few very memory intensive applications, if you do not know if you are using one then you aren't. And more slower memory is always preferable to less faster memory.

So finally a little overclocking tutorial to show you that even DDR2-800 will give you an overclock. Your processor E8400 has a front side bus (FSB) of 333MHz (1333MHz Quad data rate) and a multiplier of 9 to give a speed of 3GHz (333 x 9). DDR2-800 has a frequency of 400MHz (800Mhz Dual data rate). If you wanted to overclock your processor you could increase the FSB to 400MHz for a CPU speed of 3.6GHz and this would still not require you to overclock the memory.

Now on for a another example in how to save a bit of money If you bought the E5200 it has a FSB of 200MHz and a multiplier of 12.5 (2.5GHz) in most cases this is plenty fast enough if you fancied 3GHz though you could up the FSB to 240MHz and there you would be with a 3GHz processor for £60 rather than £140 and if the chip will run fast enough you could have a CPU speed of 5GHz before needing to overclock the memory, the only downside to this is the lower amount (2MB) of L2 Cache on the E5200. To counter that you could move to the E7300 (£90, 3MB L2 Cache) this has a FSB of 266 and a multiplier of 10x meaning a 4GHz overclock is possible without overclocking the memory. You will notice little difference in performance from dropping from 6MB L2 Cache to 2MB but the 3MB option is there if you think its important.

So if it was me this is what I would build,

CPU: E5200 - £63
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Ultima 90i + 92mm Akasa Amber fan - £28
Memory: 4GB Corsair XMS2 DDR2-800 - £40
Motherboard: Biostar TP45D2-A7 P45 - £73
Hard Drive: Samsung Spinpint F1 640GB - £46
PSU: Enermax 425W Modu82+ - £56
GPU Option 1: HD4850 £120
GPU Option 2: 9800GT £85 (specifically http://www.aria.co.uk/SuperSpecials/...roductId=33745)
GPU Option 3: HD4670 £60

I have provided 3 GPU options if gaming is all this computer is for then the 4850 is the way to go a huge step up in performance over the others, if gaming is on the cards but not the main focus the 9800GT is a good middle of the road card, and finally if gaming is more of an after thought then the 4670 will offer you all the casual gaming power you require.

My system will not necessarily require you to overclock but the option is most certainly there, the motherboard is better and allows for more options in upgrading (extra SATA ports, 4 memory slots rather than 2 etc.) the CPU cooler will be efficient and quiet (much better than the stock cooling whine!) the extra hard drive space is definitely worth the £10 and that drive is particularly quiet and speedy. Finally PSU even with the 4850 you will not require a more powerful PSU than this one, my system (see under my name) fro example only draws 230W under full load

Final points Monitors I would go with a single larger widescreen monitor over 2x smaller monitors while I have a dual monitor set up one of mine is still widescreen a pair of good quality 19" monitors will set you back £250 at least (oh and decent monitors are a worth investment while they do not effect performance directly they certainly impact heavily on your usage experience) so I would look to see what 24" (1920*1200) or maybe 22"-23" (1920*1080) monitors you can find a single larger monitor will be better especially if space is at a premium.

On the cheaper side of monitors the is the 24" Viewsonic Q241WB £175 http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=890058
or the Dell 23" S2309 1920*1080 £205 http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=908945

Or if you can wait a bit both Dell and Samsung are releasing 23" monitors with a resolutions of 2048*1152 pricing to be confirmed but looking like ~£225-250 which could be a perfect screen for you if the horizontal real estate is particularly important as you won't get more than 1920 pixels on any other monitor with a size less than 30".

Anyway I hope this has been a useful post

[staffsMike]

You bored Webby?

Very good post covers all the relevant changes in great depth

If you aren't gaming there are cheaper alternatives for your grpahics card, something like an ATi HD3470 offers dual DVI with a passive heatsink so it won't add any noise.

I'd also consider an aftermarket cooler for the CPU for the reason of noise alone but keeping things cooler is always nice.

[Blitzen]

I don't agree with McstylisT on the PSU, 620watt is ample for practically all home PC's and will be fine if you decide to upgrade (even to i7 and some other power hungry things) Plus, the TX750 isn't modular, the HX520 is.
I agree with Mike, the E5200 and a larger harddrive.

Exactly, there is no requirement for a 700+W PSU with that system.
In fact, there is no requirement for anything over 500W as that would still give alot of headroom.

On the other hand, i would buy the Corsair anyway full stop.

EDIT: Ignore that the swines have raised the price, Enermax Modu82+ is better at that money.

At last

[staffsMike]

Can't argue with the 425W Model as it does provide great value for money so long as your epeen can cope with just 425W written on the side

[alanR]

Wow you guys sure have been busy - thanks for all your input.

It will take me a while to consider all that you have said, some of which I understand on first scan, some of which I will have to read more carefully. There is clearly a lot to consider when building your own system, and at the end of the day I dont expect all will agree on one perfect solution, but your thoughts do have a trend and I will take on board those in my further considerations.

Power is fairly clear, adequate with some to spare, psu running well within capability, but without going overboard and wasting money on a psu requiring special 3phase feed to our house!

Noise is also interesting. Have bought Triton180 case boasting 2 12cm fans supposed to be silent ish so will see there. PSU good quality hopefully not too noisy. Graphics card ok has a fan which will contribute to noise levels, but how much is uncertain, agree passive cooling for that would eliminate the fan altogether. But you should hear my present system, with just one fan in the PSU and a HD whirring! Are HD's quieter these days?

Memory speed vs processor speed vs memory intensive tasks is a more complex issue. Technically possible to debate but the reality is seldom that clinical imo.

Am I running memory intensive tasks? Well in so far as one of many activities I love dabbling in is ray tracing, I thinks thats probably a yes. And if asked are there other tasks where I find today I am waiting for the pc to catch up while not obviously rattling the HD or waiting for anything else, then again yes I do sense this regularly.

Yes I do want things fast, and coming from an era where my first system (BBC Micro) booted in just 5 seconds, waiting is an irritation I would like to keep to a minimum. Whether my proposals seem justified when held against a non gaming background may never be fully resolved, I just want to do all thats reasonably cost effective to ensure that in my daily use of the new system I am not sat waiting and wondering whether that faster memory or faster processor might just have been the better choice.

On storage, its less debateable, clearly some of you like huge HDs and some are satisfied with less. I have 13G atm and so 250/320/500/750 Meg is all a little bit distant to get my head around. I am sure speed today is well up on my 13G drive and as far as total storage is concerned, I can easily bolt in another drive should my appetite for storage eat up what today I can only see using a fraction of. However I am aware that give someone a filing cabinet twice as big as they have at present, and before long they will fill it

As to overclocking, thanks for all your thoughts. I am sure it is easy if you're used to it. Maybe one day I'll have a play - but for now I think (easy though you say it is) I'll pass.

Errr off for some dinner right now - will look back in again later...

Thanks to all
Alan.