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Thread: Is a new rig really what I need?

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    Is a new rig really what I need?

    First of all, this is the system I'm considering:

    Case: Silverstone TJ10B
    MoBo: Intel SmackOver X58 (Nehelem) MoBo (BOXDX58SO)
    CPU: Intel i7 940, Nehalem
    Cooler: Thermalright True Black 120 Heat Pipe Black Nickel Plated Heat Sink
    Ram: 6GB (3x2GB) CorsairXMS3, DDR3 PC3-10666 (1333) CAS 9-9-9-24
    GPU: 512MB Sapphire HD 4870, 3600MHz GDDR5, 750MHz GPU, 800 Cores
    PSU: 850W Coolermaster Real Power M850 Modular PSU
    Sys HDD: 300 GB Western Digital WD3000GLFS VelociRaptor, 10000 rpm, 16MB Cache
    Stor HDD: 750 GB Western Digital WD7501AALS Caviar Black, 7200 rpm, 32MB Cache
    Sound: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Sound Card 7.1Ch OEM
    DVDRW: Pioneer DVR-216DBK 20x DVD±R, 12x DVD±DL, DVD+RW x8/-RW x6, SATA, Black
    Additons: Silverstone All In One Card reader & USB 2.0, 120mm AK-183-L2B Akasa Amber Case Fan x5, ZM-MFC1-PLUS-BLACK - Zalman ZM-MFC1 Plus Black Multi Fan Controller, AcoustiPack ULTIMATE Multi-Layered Material Kit

    For the most part it's a configured pre-built system, but it also has a couple little modifications I'm asking for, and it'll cost just over £2k. Any comments or suggestions are welcome.


    Now the crux of the matter. This is the system I currently have, just listing the important bits:
    CPU: Athlon64 X2 3800 939
    MoBo: EPoX EP-9NPA+ Ultra
    GPU: Leadtek GeForce 7800GT 256MB
    RAM: 2GB (4x512kb) PC3200

    I put it together myself coming up to 3 years ago now, and I've noticed bit of slow down over the past few months. I regularly defrag and run mal/spyware scans, etc, but it doesn't seem to help, especially when playing games. I play WoW and raid a lot, and since the expansion in particular I've noticed things take longer to load, characters take longer to appear, I have to turn down graphic options to get even around 15fps in some areas, when switching targets in raids the game seems to freeze up for a second or two and things like that. I guess the bottom line is really are such performance issues to be expected in WoW with my current system, in which case I'll probably spring for the new system, or is there something else I can do to help?

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    Welcome to stampytown! Salazaar's Avatar
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    Re: Is a new rig really what I need?

    While you'd benefit from a new system, now isn't the best time to buy an i7 setup. It's at it's most expensive right now and virtually no software really makes use of all that power.

    You'd be bet getting a new GPU and CPU now and buying a new rig in 6-12 months.
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    Bows out! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: Is a new rig really what I need?

    It could be a graphics driver issue!! Reinstalling them may help or even upgrading them to a later version! Make sure you use something like Driver Sweeper after uninstalling the old driver:

    http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=dri...ient=firefox-a

    Sometimes reinstalling the OS after a few years of usage can solve many issues.

    If these do not work you could upgrade your graphics card. An ATI HD4670 would be a cheap upgrade for your current system for under £70. It should be fine as it is a bus powered card that would need less power than your current 7800GT to run but is much more powerful. The 7800GT requires and an additional power connector but the HD4670 does not!! It is basically around the speed of an HD3850 but with less power comsumption. It also has better AA peformance than an HD3850. Scan also do a 9600GT for around £70 too which is faster than an HD4670 but has a higher power consumption so you will need to check your PSU if it is good enough!!

    Socket 939 dual core processors are expensive to buy so unless you can slightly overclock your current CPU it is not be worth getting a new one. You would need to get a new CPU,PSU motherboard and RAM too as the current standards are DDR2 and DDR3. This would mean spending at least £250 including the graphics card!!

    If you do want to get a new computer remember that the pound is pretty weak at the moment!! Hence the cost of computers bits is also higher. I would go for a lower cost build IMHO! The AMD Phenom II looks good value for money too and it is coming out in January and it maybe worth delaying the build at least until then!!

    Also the Nvidia GTX series cards are moving to a 55nm process(as a opposed to the 65nm one currently) so it could mean more competition for the ATI HD4800 series and hence possible price cuts!! There even maybe a newer revision of the HD4800 series called the HD4900 according to some recent rumours!

    If you do want to get a computer ASAP a modification of the £500 build I specified in this thread will do you for the immediate future:

    http://forums.hexus.net/hexus-hardwa...-pc-500-a.html

    This is a good spec and even with the motherboard I specified you should be able to get the Q6600 upto 3ghz. If you go for an HD4870 and an aftermarket cooler it would cost another £100. Also you would need to add the cost of an OS.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 18-12-2008 at 10:58 AM.

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    Re: Is a new rig really what I need?

    That build isnt worth over 2k

    if you make some adjustments you could build it yourself for under 1.6k

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    Yeah dude! NightshadowUK's Avatar
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    Re: Is a new rig really what I need?

    As the others have said now isn't a good time to spend lots of cash on a new computer (and that build really isn't worth £2K anyway).

    My advice would be to buy a new graphics card and overclock the CPU as I'm pretty sure the EP-9NPA+ Ultra was one of the best S939 boards around.

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    Re: Is a new rig really what I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salazaar View Post
    While you'd benefit from a new system, now isn't the best time to buy an i7 setup. It's at it's most expensive right now and virtually no software really makes use of all that power.
    Yea, I get that, one of my main reasons for going for an i7 system now was because a few months after I put together my current system the AM2 came out and I don't want something similar to happen again. I mean obviously Intel aren't going to release a new socket in the next 6-12months, but it'd be nice to have the system last as long as possible this time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salazaar View Post
    You'd be bet getting a new GPU and CPU now and buying a new rig in 6-12 months.
    Well, that's what I'd been thinking of doing for some time, but it seems to be a pain to find a better x2 939 socket CPU at the moment, I can't seem to find one on Scan or ebuyer or anywhere except Ebay and they're going for like £100+ there and I could probably get a decent Intel CPU for not much more. So if I'm changing my CPU and motherboard and GPU, I've also gotta get new RAM and probably a new PSU as the one I've got isn't great, it was just meant to be a stand in till I got a decent one after my Tagan went pop. My point is by trying to just upgrade my CPU and graphics card I end up pretty much getting a new system anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by NightshadowUK View Post
    My advice would be to buy a new graphics card and overclock the CPU as I'm pretty sure the EP-9NPA+ Ultra was one of the best S939 boards around.
    Do you know of anywhere that has, to put it rather bluntly, an idiot's guide to overclocking? I've never looked into doing it before, so I've got no clue as to what it entails.

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    Re: Is a new rig really what I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by NightshadowUK View Post
    As the others have said now isn't a good time to spend lots of cash on a new computer (and that build really isn't worth £2K anyway).
    Though i agree the don’t buy now advice been going on for a while now.

    At the current rate of innovation no matter how long you wait you will surely see something fancier released the next week.

    Moore's Law at its best/worse.

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    Senior Member kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: Is a new rig really what I need?

    I would just upgrade the GPU and overclock the CPU (you've got a good chip for that). Then format your hard drive and reinstall windows - it'll feel like a completely new computer and you won't be limited by your hardware for anything but the most demanding games/resolutions.

    Even your current rig is overkill for WoW, so any slowness/problems are going to be caused by software, not hardware.

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    Yeah dude! NightshadowUK's Avatar
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    Re: Is a new rig really what I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragamuffin86 View Post
    Do you know of anywhere that has, to put it rather bluntly, an idiot's guide to overclocking? I've never looked into doing it before, so I've got no clue as to what it entails.
    GIYF, there's a shed load of guides just a Google away. Read a few until you feel happy but a few pearls of wisdom:

    - don't overclock the CPU in anything but the BIOS
    - don't push your CPU voltage above 1.525v (with a decent cooler)
    - always always always watch your temperatures
    - in my books it isn't a legitimate overclock until you've stress tested it for a good few hours

    You could even start a new thread, there's a good few people around here (including myself) who'd be happy to take you through it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mama Sumae View Post
    Though i agree the don’t buy now advice been going on for a while now.

    At the current rate of innovation no matter how long you wait you will surely see something fancier released the next week.

    Moore's Law at its best/worse.
    I know what you're saying, there's always something new / faster around the corner but with i7 still in its infancy the more mainstream chips and motherboards won't be around 'til Q1 2009. To blast so much money at a technology that's so new is risky at best, and when you consider playing WoW is the main goal here i7 just doesn't seem to make any sense.

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    Re: Is a new rig really what I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mama Sumae View Post
    Though i agree the don’t buy now advice been going on for a while now.

    At the current rate of innovation no matter how long you wait you will surely see something fancier released the next week.

    Moore's Law at its best/worse.
    My view is the don't buy now advice has as much to do with the weakness of the pound pushing prices up as it does with the rate of product innovation. From a new product point of view the only thing I would wait a bit on would be a purchase of a Core 2 Quad as Phenom II is due out soon.

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    Re: Is a new rig really what I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by NightshadowUK View Post
    GIYF, there's a shed load of guides just a Google away. Read a few until you feel happy but a few pearls of wisdom:

    - don't overclock the CPU in anything but the BIOS
    - don't push your CPU voltage above 1.525v (with a decent cooler)
    - always always always watch your temperatures
    - in my books it isn't a legitimate overclock until you've stress tested it for a good few hours

    You could even start a new thread, there's a good few people around here (including myself) who'd be happy to take you through it.
    Thanks, keeping an eye on the temperature is easy enough. There's some software, Thunder Probe iirc, that came with the mobo and the temp. sensor is all hooked up.

    Quote Originally Posted by NightshadowUK View Post
    I know what you're saying, there's always something new / faster around the corner but with i7 still in its infancy the more mainstream chips and motherboards won't be around 'til Q1 2009. To blast so much money at a technology that's so new is risky at best, and when you consider playing WoW is the main goal here i7 just doesn't seem to make any sense.
    To be honest the main goal being WoW is sort of a self fulfilling prophecy. I've got a 360 (which I got a red ring of death on two days ago >.<), which is what I play most games on, but if I knew my system could handle Farcry 2 or Fallout 3, etc then I'd probably be playing them on it, but as I'm not then I end up just using it for WoW and the occasional C&C3 or BFME2 game, although I do get a fair bit of slow down on those when I have 5+ different factions at once.

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    Re: Is a new rig really what I need?

    on the above premise then there is no real reason to jump on the i7 bandwagon. hellishly expensive for not a lot more gain TBH.
    A decent 775 mobo, Core 2 chip an E8400 say plus a decent graphics card say a 260 or 4870 will happily play the games you mentioned. You havent said what monitor you have or whether you will be adding to the already high cost of that i7 setup.
    Going down the 775 route would allow you something like this

    TJ09

    Noctua 12P CPU Cooler expensive but very quiet

    Wolfdale E8400 Core 2

    ATI 4870X2


    Samsung F1 1TB Drive

    TWIN2X4096-6400C4DHX - 4GB (2x2GB) Corsair TwinX XMS2, DDR2 PC2-6400 (800)

    24" Asus MK241H Black Widescreen LCD, 1920x1200, 3000:1, 450cd/m&#178;, 2ms, Speakers, HDMI, Webcam

    DFI Lanparty DK P45-T2RS Plus, iP45,

    850W Silverstone ST85F 100%Modular, Quad PCI-E

    Sony DRU-V200S-B 20xDVD&#177;R, 8x DVD&#177;DL, DVD+RW x8 / -RW x 6, DVD-RAM x12, SATA, Retail (Black/ Silver)

    Self build

    Cost &#163;1394.60

    Even this is a bit OTT with the 4870 X2 an ATI 4870 would be enough. Plus I went for the Temjin as that appeared to be a preference from the choice you had made. There are plenty of other lower cost cases just as good as the Temjin.

    Thats a saving of over &#163;600 plus a 24 inch screen thrown in with no appreciable loss in framerates for games compared tpo the i7 option.

    At the end of the day it is your choice and your money.

    If your intention is to run Vista 64 I wouldnt bother with the X-Fi card, on board sound these days for gaming purposes is just as good IMO.

    Even adding additional HDD for backup say a 500Gb would only add an additional &#163;46. The Samsung F1 is as fast as the WD Raptor 150 in a lot of cases so plenty of space and fast.
    Last edited by DratUK; 25-12-2008 at 03:09 PM. Reason: Afterthoughts
    Space in my skull

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    Re: Is a new rig really what I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by DratUK View Post
    You havent said what monitor you have or whether you will be adding to the already high cost of that i7 setup.
    Ah, no new monitor is needed, hence not being included in the spec I posted. I bought a HP w2207h not that long ago.

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    Re: Is a new rig really what I need?

    In which case a single 4870 would be more than enough or if your preference is for Nvidia then the 260.

    Your now looking at a bill of around £800 or so. If you need an OS Vista OEM or Upgrade 90 to 160 depending on what flavour.
    Space in my skull

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    Re: Is a new rig really what I need?

    in my experience, you never will need that much power. i recently bought a second hand rig, it was pretty much maxed out (not the best but it does the job) just get it to cover your needs and save &#163;$&#163;$?

    i mean have you explored quad core opportunities??
    just wondering what do you need it for??
    "Gaming" Rig (is it actually good enough to be classed as a gaming rig?

    OS: Windows XP 32-bit // Case: Antec P182 // CPU: Core2Duo E6600 @ 2.4 (stock cooler) // GPU: GeForce 8800 GTX (stock cooling) // PSU: 550 Watts // HDD: Seagate Barracuda 320 GB // RAM: 2GB // MoBo: Asus P5N

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    Re: Is a new rig really what I need?

    Mate, sell your socket 939 while it's fetching good money, you will not regret it, my old system was very similar to yours.

    Check this thread:
    http://forums.hexus.net/hexus-hardwa...t-upgrade.html


    I had:

    Athlon 64 X2 4600 @ 2.6Ghz
    Asus A8N-SLI Premium
    2GB OCZ Gold DDR3200
    256MB 7800GT PCIe

    Sold for total: £210


    Upgraded too:

    Intel Q9450 2.66Ghz @ 3.40Ghz
    Asus Maximus Formula X38
    4GB OCZ PC2-8000 Platinum
    768MB 8800GTX OC

    Bought for total: £310


    Don't bother waiting to upgrade because the truth is whenever you upgrade something better will always be round the corner. I picked up most my new parts second hand and I would suggest you do the same, because some good bargains can be had.
    || Q9450 @ 3.40Ghz || Maximus Formula X38 || 4GB OCZ PC2-8000 XTC ||
    || 768MB 8800GTX OC || 500GB Seagate || 2TB Western Digital || 24" Dell ||

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