Complete beginner, looking for advice with building PC

Hi there. I'm about to embark upon my first computer build. I've pretty much zero experience with computer hardware, or technical knowledge so you'll have to bear with me. Actually, my main motivation for this is to educate myself on the ins and outs of computer hardware.

I'm a student so my finances are limited (not that limited finances aren't the norm right about now). Hoping to put together a cheap rig, about £500 inc. monitor, keyboard etc... with the idea of general office tasks, running intensive simulations/calculations, and maybe some light gaming. I'm not foolish enough to believe I can pick up a top end gaming machine on such a budget.

One key element I'm interested in is the oppertunity for future upgrade. Ideally, I'd like this to be the only time I have to invest in a brand new PC for the next 4/5 years. Upgradability is my other main motivation for building my own.

So my assumption is I need to pick up a pretty new, mid/high end motherboard which should serve for my desired duration. Tag onto it a standard dual core and a HD4650 for graphics, about 4GB RAM and a 250HDD. I can easily upgrade all those components above (aside from motherboard) easily, right?

If anyone has any advice on the above it's welcome, but where I'm getting rather confused (this is where my lack of tech knowledge is letting me down) is on aspects such as processor/motherboard/graphics card compatibility. Also cooling and PSU. and any cheap source of monitors would be appreciated. Is it a risk to buy an older monitor second hand?

Finally, I was curious about hybrid crossfire. Again I must admit to knowing little except the basic concept, is it something worth looking out for or is it's overall performance boost negligable?

Cheers for any info, apologies if this is in the wrong forum.

Welcome to the forum and good look with your first build.

There was a good thread here that should help with the building.

Someone else will probably give you a idea of a good spec PC for your budget in the next couple of hours.

hybrid crossfire is a nice concept but really is pointless.

Basicly it takes onboard grapics from a mobo eg a 780g & combines it with a low end grapics card to eg 3450 to boost preformance by 30% or so however it only works on vista and provides bad bang for your buck.

http://hotimg23.fotki.com/a/146_87/5...e-build-th.jpg

Slighty over but the monitor is a damn good one, you should be able to pick up a cheaper one quite easy I just feel that offers the best vaule at the moment

I assume the simulations/calculations you want to run are mult-threaded. I am also assuming that as you are relatively inexperienced with computer building you do not want to rush into overclocking.

From the description of how you intend to use the computer I would say that the starting point should be your choice of CPU. I would recommend a quad core. A good starting point would be the Phenom II (either a 920 or a 940) or a Q9400.

I have attached some reviews of the Phenom II which also have the Q9400 for you to do a comparison.

Hexus
Tech Report
X-bit Labs

One thing to note is that the Q9400 is socket 775 which is due to be replaced by Core i5 toward the end of the year. Core i5 CPUs will not work in Socket 775 motherboards. The Phenom II CPUs are socket AM2+ which will be replaced by socket AM3 in the next couple of months. Socket AM3 CPUs will work in Socket AM2+ motherboards. I have chosen to recommend CPUs that I believe will last you for a 3 to 5 years.

Let me know your preference and we can build up your system from there.

£500 for a complete build (inc everything includeing OperateingSystem) is going to be very tough
You'd probably be better off buying a cheap dell or simular, however that in turn can majorly limit upgradeability.

May be worth scouring 2nd hand market, ebay and simular, however that inturn runs the risk of getting ripped off or hardware dieing with no warrantys.

I say this not to put you off but to warn you, you've set yourself a hard task.

A copy of vista home basic is going to cost you £65ish by it's self.
I'd say you best bet currently is to look at an AMD system:
A 780G chipset motherboard, this has very good onboard graphics (well good for onboard)
A athlon x2 to start with as the cost is low and later can be replaced with something far better.
a cheap 19" monitor will cost you £90 or less
No need for a seperate graphics card yet, that will come down to what games you play, the onboard graphics will handle quite a bit should be fine with many older games and current games on low quality. If you're unhappy with it's performance in games you can then look at getting a card.
Personally speaking I'd not go below an ati 4830 or nvidia 9800gt for gaming (or an old 8800gt 2nd hand) ether of these will paly almost every thing at max setting on a 19" monitor resolution without any issue (depending on game you may have to lower settings but will still play well)

If it were me, I'd streach the £500 budget to £588 and get this:
http://omploader.org/tMTZ5Yg

It'll mean not going out on the piss for a whole week, and you wont get mindboggingly high framerates, but it will get the job done until you can save up £100 or so to get a decent descrete GPU. You could skip out on the CPU and get an X2, but if you're going to be running simulations, the extra cores help.

Thanks very much for the info guys. £500 isn't a strict budget limit for me, I can be flexible but I'm just quite money conscious :)

Tonpal - no, I have no intention to go into overclocking quite yet. I'd rather understand the hardware first before I get into business like that. I assume that from the way you were speaking you'd advise against the Q9400 because of the impending release of the Core i5 because of future compatibility issues?

Aidanjt - do standard cases really cost that much?! I always assumed you could pick one up for £10/£20

Thanks for the model builds. I'll be sure to consider them when the time comes to order the hardware.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hologide

Aidanjt - do standard cases really cost that much?! I always assumed you could pick one up for £10/£20

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You can pick up cheap, poorly designed, and poorly ventilated cases for under £20. But honestly, a well designed and built case saves a number of hassles during the build, and operation of the system. And you can just buy a cheap case when it comes to selling it on, and keep it when you put together a new one. It's a worthwhile investment. And when it comes to Lian-Li cases, the PC7-B Plus II case is excellent value for money.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hologide

Tonpal - no, I have no intention to go into overclocking quite yet. I'd rather understand the hardware first before I get into business like that. I assume that from the way you were speaking you'd advise against the Q9400 because of the impending release of the Core i5 because of future compatibility issues?

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I would go for the Phenom II 920 as it gives good performance and value for money. Also to keep the budget down it is probable that you will need to stick with integrated graphics and the AMD integrated graphics is far superior to Intel. I will put a suggested build up a bit later when I have a bit more time.

Remember, as a student you probably qualify for low cost software such as the os, ask at the school/uni and they'll be able to tell you more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hologide

Aidanjt - do standard cases really cost that much?! I always assumed you could pick one up for £10/£20

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Not if you want to have your fingers/hands/arms intact after you've built your PC...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aidanjt

You can pick up cheap, poorly designed, and poorly ventilated cases for under £20. But honestly, a well designed and built case saves a number of hassles during the build, and operation of the system. And you can just buy a cheap case when it comes to selling it on, and keep it when you put together a new one. It's a worthwhile investment. And when it comes to Lian-Li cases, the PC7-B Plus II case is excellent value for money.

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Okay, I never really assumed that the case made that much difference. But I can see why spending a little more can make a difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tonpal

I would go for the Phenom II 920 as it gives good performance and value for money. Also to keep the budget down it is probable that you will need to stick with integrated graphics and the AMD integrated graphics is far superior to Intel. I will put a suggested build up a bit later when I have a bit more time.

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Okay sure. I've had bad experiences with integrated graphics before but I'm assuming things have moved on since the awful integrated intel chips of the late 90s/early 00s.

And that's a good point Vinny. I've already got a licence for Office 07 which will serve me, just got to find an OS. I'm not sure as my uni can help me out though, considering how much they charged me for some programming software....

may I suggest some things from my own experiences too?

First... welcome to hell and heaven. It's crap when it wont work, and it's superb when it does work :)

Video cards are mainly VERY powerful now, so dont fret too much about that. And they're upgradeable later.

You MUST buy ram from a good company and NOT un banded. For a new builder, ram can cause you lots of heart ache. I suggest Corsair Value Select for all round goodness.

I think a really nice case is good, and lots of room inside is better. You can do small one day in the future... get a nie case from Antec, or Lian Li or possible Akasa (some Akasa cases are cheapish but not bad at all)

YOU MUST spend good dough on a good Power Supply. NorthQ and Corsair and Tagan are all good.

If I may suggest an Intel motherboard... they're really really hard to kill!

Stick with Western Digital or Samsung hard drives for maximum compatibility and least break downs, and dont think you need a huge one... get what gives you most Gig for your quid.

Most heatsinks for the cpu come with thermal paste already applied, BUT you might need to take it off (possible) so you might want some more thermal paste too.

Hyundai make nice cheap tft's. Period. I'e had more of those than any other with zero trouble.

Pioneer, Samsung and Lite On make nice CD/DVD drives for reading and burning. Stick with SATA on those as well as on the hard drive.

We'll all help, so keep a working PC with you at all times!

"And that's a good point Vinny. I've already got a licence for Office 07 which will serve me, just got to find an OS. I'm not sure as my uni can help me out though, considering how much they charged me for some programming software...."

I don't think it actually comes from the uni, someone else may be able to tell you, as I remember, so long as you have a valid acacdemic email address, you're in. Take a look here at a google page results for student software, http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...UK%7CcountryGB.

Hope it helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vinnyT

"And that's a good point Vinny. I've already got a licence for Office 07 which will serve me, just got to find an OS. I'm not sure as my uni can help me out though, considering how much they charged me for some programming software...."

I don't think it actually comes from the uni, someone else may be able to tell you, as I remember, so long as you have a valid acacdemic email address, you're in. Take a look here at a google page results for student software, http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...UK%7CcountryGB.

Hope it helps.

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www.theultimatesteal.co.uk :)

Ebuyer can be cheaper than Scan BTW.

Here are the bits from Ebuyer with the free Supersaver postage option:

ASUS M3A78-VM 780G Socket AM2+ onboard graphics 8 channel audio mATX Motherboard 152580 14 in stock £61.00

OCZ Stealth Xtream 500W PSU - 1x PCI-E 6/8pin, 2x SATA 12cm Fan 135159 6 in stock £42.29

Force3D HD 4830 512MB GDDR3 Dual DVI HDTV Out PCI-E Graphics Card 151452 2 in stock £89.99

OCZ 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 800Mhz/PC2-6400 GOLD XTC Memory Kit CL5(5-5-5-18) 146049 170 in stock £37.03

Total: £230.31

You can get free postage from Scan if you have 20+ posts on Hexus.

Here are the bits from Scan:

Coolermaster RC-330 V2 Elite Black Midi Tower Case w/o PSU (New Improved Version) Scan Exclusive £27.93

* LN22738 19" Hannspree XM Boston Custom Paint Design Widescreen LCD, 1440x900, 5 ms, 300 cd/m², 700:1, Spkrs + * LN25957 Labtec (Logitech) Personal Webcam USB(free with monitor) £87.39

* LN22642 500 GB Samsung HD502IJ Spinpoint F1, SATA 300, 7200 rpm, 16MB Cache, 8.9 ms, NCQ £41.39

* LN25380 LG GH22NS40 22x DVD±R, 16xDVD±DL, DVD+RW x8/-RWx6 ,12xRAM SATA, Black, OEM £12.64

* LN25761 AMD Phenom II X4 920, Deneb Core, S AM2+, 2.8GHz, 8MB Total Cache, FSB/HT 2000MHz, 125W, Retail £155.24

LN17168 Item in stock. Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic SP1* 64Bit 1Pk OEM (DVD) £68.90

Total:£393.49

The items marked with the asterisk are on special offer on the Scan website this weekend under Today Only.

I would budget around 20 quid for a keyboard and mouse also.

This system does cost around £650 but it should be able handle any current game at 1280x800 or 1440x900 at good settings IMHO.

If this is still too much money you can opt for the following instead:

1.) A less powerful graphics card like the HD4670 for 63 quid or the HD4650 GDDR3 for 55 quid.

2.) A smaller hard disk. You can get a 250gb for £10 less.

3.) A dual core 2.7ghz AMD Athlon X2 7750+ for £68 instead of the quad core 2.8ghz AMD Phenom.

4.) A heatsink for the 7750+ for £10 as it does not come with one!!

5.) A cheaper motherboard for £50

If you go with the HD4670 and the other cost saving measures you can bring the total cost down to around £520

I would personally try to get the first system as it will be far more powerful.

Thanks again, some of these model builds are quite helpful.

Something I've always wondered is what happens the first time I turn on a PC that's been custom built. Does some of the hardware have pre-installed drives and software which allows you to get the OS and other drivers installed?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hologide

Something I've always wondered is what happens the first time I turn on a PC that's been custom built. Does some of the hardware have pre-installed drives and software which allows you to get the OS and other drivers installed?

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The BIOS bootstraps the hardware, and loads bootsector code from whatever storage medium you choose, usually (the default) from the CD/DVD drive, that then loads the pre-installation operating system from the disc, and begins the setup programme to install the operating system to the hard drive. After that, it's merely a matter of following the on-screen prompts.

If you want to get into the nitty gritty of PC-BIOS hardware and how it relates to Windows, fellow Hexite Paul Adams put together this informal post: http://forums.hexus.net/operating-sy...h-windows.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hologide

Thanks again, some of these model builds are quite helpful.

Something I've always wondered is what happens the first time I turn on a PC that's been custom built. Does some of the hardware have pre-installed drives and software which allows you to get the OS and other drivers installed?

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Windows does have default drivers for most hardware.When you boot up for the first time after you have installed Windows it may install the appropriate drivers automatically. However it is best to have the drivers to hand already on a usb pen drive or on a cd.

Regarding the build I would personally spend another 100 quid and get a quad core processor and perhaps a faster graphics card if it is needed. This way you will not need to be bothering about upgrading the core components for a while. It is one thing just replacing a graphics card but it is much more trouble replacing a CPU for example.
By the time a quad core Phenom or Core2 is considered a major weakness you would need to change all your major components(RAM,motherboard,CPU and graphics card).

Here are my thoughts:

The overall plan with the suggested build is to get a solid processor and motherboard. With the other bits, value for money will be the key factor. I have taken all prices from Scan but you may wish to shop around.

CPU: AMD Phenom II 920 £160.07
Motherboard: Biostar TA790GX3-A2+ (£83.36) - the 790GX gives a bit more kick in the integrated graphics department which should be ok for light gaming. Don't expect to play Crysis at high settings though. Although I don't expect you to need to replace your CPU this board will work with AM3 processors so there is an upgrade path should you require it.
Memory: 4GB Corsair (2x2GB) TwinX XMS2, DDR2 PC2-6400 (800) CAS 5-5-5-18 (£39.84)
PSU: 450W Corsair VX Series PSU (£51.76)
Case: Coolermaster Elite 335 (£28.69)
HDD: 500 GB Samsung HD502IJ Spinpoint F1 (£43.76)
ODD: Samsung SH-S223F/BEBE 22x (£15.24)
OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64Bit (£89.57)
Telly: 17" Hanns-G HW173AB Silver/Black Widescreen LCD, 1440x900 (£66.69) - mainly recommended because of the price.
Keyboard & Mouse: Genius KB 600 Black Value Wireless Keyboard & Optical Mouse Kit (£13.79)

Total: £592.77

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tonpal

Here are my thoughts:

The overall plan with the suggested build is to get a solid processor and motherboard. With the other bits, value for money will be the key factor. I have taken all prices from Scan but you may wish to shop around.

CPU: AMD Phenom II 920 £160.07
Motherboard: Biostar TA790GX3-A2+ (£83.36) - the 790GX gives a bit more kick in the integrated graphics department which should be ok for light gaming. Don't expect to play Crysis at high settings though. Although I don't expect you to need to replace your CPU this board will work with AM3 processors so there is an upgrade path should you require it.
Memory: 4GB Corsair (2x2GB) TwinX XMS2, DDR2 PC2-6400 (800) CAS 5-5-5-18 (£39.84)
PSU: 450W Corsair VX Series PSU (£51.76)
Case: Coolermaster Elite 335 (£28.69)
HDD: 500 GB Samsung HD502IJ Spinpoint F1 (£43.76)
ODD: Samsung SH-S223F/BEBE 22x (£15.24)
OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64Bit (£89.57)
Telly: 17" Hanns-G HW173AB Silver/Black Widescreen LCD, 1440x900 (£66.69) - mainly recommended because of the price.
Keyboard & Mouse: Genius KB 600 Black Value Wireless Keyboard & Optical Mouse Kit (£13.79)

Total: £592.77

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Windows Vista Ultimate Upgrade w/SP1 (additional products) - £40.95. You can upgrade iteself. Saving £48.62!

Using an upgrade without an existing copy of Windows does violate the EULA. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it.

Hello just stumbled across this thread, just put together a new built myself, its gone wrong but thats in another post :( ... Anyway just wanted to say that when i was at uni i put together a new PC and had a nice dual 21 inch viewsonic crt set up for about £50 of ebay from a small local business, they were hugh and usually go to local buyers because of the weight ( got a mate with a car to pick them up), but that means very little demand and a great price :) Worth looking into it if u have the space and want a nice monitor setup on the cheap, but i have to say now gone to a single 24in crt and i miss them lol. Look for decent spec dell / viewsonic / Illayma / nearly all have a date of manufacture on the back so you can aim for one less than 2-3 yrs old . Both monitors were 2 years old and 5 years on and both are still working perfecty one on my mum's and one on my brothers pc. Gotta love those crts :)

Good luck!
AC

Hmm a CRT is an interesting idea, one which I was considering. My only concern was picking one up with resolution comparable to a flat screen monitor.

Furthermore, space is in a premium in my room. I've already got a small TV for my 360/PS2. What would be really useful is if I could use my new monitor to display from my desktop and consoles. I imagine only a minority of monitors come with SCART input, so I'd assume some sort of signal converter would be in order??

i haven't seen scart adapters but never used one so i can;t comment on the quality of picture, as to the crt resolution/picture quality, well thats a debate that might last a while, IMHO unless u run the lcds at its native res they dont look good, crts are a lot more flexible also they usually have much wider resolution choices if u need then. Personallly i prefer the crt display but i think its an end user thing. I went back to lcd because of space ( finished uni) but i since i had the space at uni it was not a problem, but yes those large +21' have Huge footprints worth measuring first. In the end it was a nice and very cheap setup that kicked arse, dual 21's baby, dual 21's! :rockon2:

I seem to remember that good 21"crt's would go up to 1600x1200 resolution but the big issue is space, power usage and weight.
I have an old 19" crt I still keep for emergency backup screen, however it's damb heavy and bows the top of my computer desk if I have to use it.

You should be able to pick them up 2nd hand dirt cheap, however 17" and 19" LCD's are also very cheap to get 2nd hand.

Yes you could use a small tv as a monitor, if it's an LCD tv (most lcd tv's have a standard d-sub input) however very few crt tv's will have d-sub.
However it's still possible using the s-video connector depending on your tv and you will need to get the correct leads.
Another However, resolution may again be an issue, but this all depends on the TV.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pob255

I seem to remember that good 21"crt's would go up to 1600x1200 resolution but the big issue is space, power usage and weight.
I have an old 19" crt I still keep for emergency backup screen, however it's damb heavy and bows the top of my computer desk if I have to use it.

You should be able to pick them up 2nd hand dirt cheap, however 17" and 19" LCD's are also very cheap to get 2nd hand.

Yes you could use a small tv as a monitor, if it's an LCD tv (most lcd tv's have a standard d-sub input) however very few crt tv's will have d-sub.
However it's still possible using the s-video connector depending on your tv and you will need to get the correct leads.
Another However, resolution may again be an issue, but this all depends on the TV.

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Buying a cheap small LCD TV and using it as a PC monitor is a bad idea, it depends on the panel used on the TV but everyone of the customers that buys them for that purpose at work has said the max resolution some of ythe really cheap ones can handle is 800 x 600.

Stump up the extra money and just get a decent TFT screen on it's own :)

Like I said depends on the TV :P

Thanks for the advice on this thread guys. I've taken into consideration what you said, but also considered my avaliable budget and the fact that most of us are guilty of wanting to squeeze that extra core or .5GHz into the specs at a little extra cost - I've tried to trim down to a minimum spec which would work for me. I dont feel I've much use to a Quad Core or a huge HDD or anything like that yet. Could always bang one in in a couple of years if I needed to I suppose. Anyway, the build I came up with on Scan:

Motherboard: LN21923 Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H £68

What drew my attention to this was the pretty high RAM capacity, plus it's claims of the integrated GPU. I figure if it's really that good I can save myself a little on an actual graphics card, for the time being at least until I have a bit more cash kicking about.

Processor: LN23890 AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ £59

Seems like the standard dual core to me. A quad core would, of course, be preferential, but I'm not sure if the cost is worth it for what I'll get out of it right now. I believe the Mobo can hack a Phenom so there's room for upgrade if that turns out not to be the case sometime down the line.

RAM: LN19302 4GB Corsair (2x2GB) £40

Pretty standard 4GB RAM.

HDD: LN11035 250 GB Hitachi £34

Again, seems pretty standard. Cut back a little on the memory size, but it's taken me two years to get close to filling a 100GB HDD on my lappy so 250GB should serve me 4+ years.

PSU: LN8039 550W EZcool Silent pPFC Power Supply £20

Not sure why but I feel there may be a compatibility issue here :S

Monitor: LN25067 20" Samsung SM2043NW £110

This choice certainly isn't set in stone. I'll probably shop elsewhere for a monitor.

Peripherals: LN19999 Microsoft Basic Black Value Pack Keyboard + Mouse £13

Silly question - I'm assuming I'll need to pick up a set of speakers if I dont fancy using headphones all the time? Yeah, I haven't set up/regularly used a desktop for 2 years now. 2 years of laptoping has driven me slightly insane mind you, can't see me ever buying a new laptop again. Not on a budget of £500 anyway....

OS - LN17166 Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1* 64Bit £90

Again, I figure this can be found cheaper elsewhere. Not sure how many licences this edition of Vista comes with, if it's more than one I may try to source one out from a mate.

Case: LN20988 Akasa ZEN V4 Tower Case Black £32

Meh. I tried not to be too cheap on the case :P

Optical drive: LN24458 LG GH22NP20 £15

Which comes to a grand total of £495. About £480 if I can scrape together enough posts for free shipping. Reckon I can get it under £450 with a bit of shopping around. So if anyone's gonna rip this build [please do!] and suggest an alternative [again, yes please :)] bear in mind I've got about another £100 to play with. Maybe £150 if I stretched.

Thanks a bunch guys, your input has been handy :)

Oh yeah, a Scan screenshot, as I've seen posted:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2zpl8jo.jpg

Looking at my build it doesn't seem too different to Tonpal's. A little cheaper maybe, value removed from the CPU and transferred to the monitor...

Please don't order that PSU, you would be better off with a Hamster in a wheel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by staffsMike

Please don't order that PSU, you would be better off with a Hamster in a wheel.

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:laugh:

I agree!! There are rumours that they explode even before you install them!! :laugh:

I would spend another 15 quid and get a Silverpower 400w PSU:

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/400w-...2V-6Serial-ATA

It is made by Tagan and has got a very good review:

http://techreport.com/articles.x/16073/11

Scan are also doing a 700w FSP for £35 on Today Only:

http://www.scan.co.uk/TodayOnly/Index.aspx

It is usually around £70.

I would also get an AMD X2 7750+ instead of the X2 5600 as it has an improved architechure(it is based on the Phenom unlike the older X2 5600+) and is hence faster!!

It also does come with a heatsink and fan:

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/AMD-A...B-Cache-Retail

http://i44.tinypic.com/4gn1pe.jpg

This is my final build, having taken into account some of the above posts. I reckon through a bit of alternative sourcing I should meet my £500 mark spot on.

Is there a significant bottleneck or part which really should be upgraded? Nothing on there that's liable to spontaneously combust when I first hit the power button I hope :P I have a little bit of flexibility but really I'd rather use that to hold out for a graphics card. I'd just rather see how this system performs with what i wish to run on it before I go out buying a graphics card.

The monitor is much cheaper at Ebuyer:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/142542

I would get this RAM as it has lower latencies which means better performance:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/143844

I would also get a hard disk with 16mb cache as these are faster:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/124733