Advice needed on new PC.

[Stapo]

Hi all

Was wondering if you could help me out? I've got £500 to spend on a new PC. I'll be using the case, cd drives and the memory from my old pc. So I ll be looking at buying a new:

Processor
PSU
GPU
Motherboard

I'll be looking for a pc that be mainly used for games, but I'll also be streaming video and watching films. So any help would be welcome

Thanks
Chris

[sadbuttrue]

You'll need to give the exact details of the memory from your current system for any useful recommendations.

[Stapo]

Sorry my current memory is 3GB off:
CM2X1024-6400 - 1GB Corsair XMS2, DDR2 PC2-6400 (800), 240 Pins, Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 5-5-5-18

I will eventfully upgrade, but I don't know when and I ll be looking at getting the equipment from SCAN.

Thanks
Chris

[transylvanic]

Your graphics card:

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/512MB...-DL-DVI-I-HDTV

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Here is what I would get:

Asus 780G -around £65

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/150278

Phenom II X4 940 - around £190:

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/AMD-P...Hz-125W-Retail

HD4870 1gb - around £170 or a GTX260(216 shader version) - around £193

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/s...html?POW-48701

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/s....html?NOV-2665

Xigmatek 650w modular - around £57

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/650W-...2-QUAD-SLI-PSU

Scan has free postage for Hexus users who have 20+ useful posts. They also have items at reduced prices on Today Only. Ebuyer has free postage for orders above £49.99 and Novatech has free postage too.

[Stapo]

Thanks all think I'll be going down the Phenom II X4 940 & 260 GTX route.

CAT-THE-FIFTH never heard or novatech do you highly recommended them?

[transylvanic]

260? Why would you do that? It costs more and performs worse than the 4870. There is no reason to spend your money on a 260, other than irrational brand loyalty or some aesthetic concern.

Otherwise, CTF's proposal is sound.. I thought it'd be way over budget but the man's done his work.. £505 total.

[Stapo]

Silly me I had it in my head it was the HD4850. Thats what I get for trying to use the net without my boss seeing.

Thanks

[Biscuit]

260? Why would you do that? It costs more and performs worse than the 4870. There is no reason to spend your money on a 260, other than irrational brand loyalty or some aesthetic concern.

No it doesnt, it performs about the same if not better in most situations... in the early days of the 192 stream and the poorer drivers it was different. Now the two cards perform pretty darned similar and the GTX tends to edge ahead.

[transylvanic]

Stapo, good choice!

No it doesnt, it performs about the same if not better in most situations... in the early days of the 192 stream and the poorer drivers it was different. Now the two cards perform pretty darned similar and the GTX tends to edge ahead.

and the ~£20 price difference can buy you about a dozen packets of biscuits. So still no reason to buy the 260 over the 4870.

[Biscuit]

Hardware wise there is the noise temperature and power usages which are all better on NVid cards but there also CUDA, physx and the additional GPU enhancements for adobe. All questionable as to how useful but they are there none the less.

[transylvanic]

Hardware wise there is the noise temperature and power usages which are all better on NVid cards

Nope. Temperatures are the only thing you have a point on, but I'm not seeing Radeons failing because of those high temps, thus it becomes an esoteric issue.

Fan noise is untrue, and on a productivity per watt analysis -

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...n,2007-26.html

- Radeons come out ahead. Thus, even if performance is hard to pinpoint, power efficiency goes in favour of ATi.

but there also CUDA

Irrelevant to graphics acceleration.

physx

Limited, if any, value in actual graphics acceleration. Its value is contingent on future developments, which seem long on future and short on development.

and the additional GPU enhancements for adobe.

Photoshop CS4, to be precise. A wildly bloated piece of software, whose performance can be upgraded exponentially by downgrading to an older version.

It's not that you are wrong, biscuit, it's that these things, in my opinion, should be factored out of a present-day purchase. I can see them developing and being of real value some time down the line, but that's when you should care about them.
--
p.s. - sorry to hijack the thread, but the uninitiated shouldn't read this thread and come away thinking the nvidia card has actual advantages to the ati one. Because, today - and for the foreseeable future - it does not. And the most likely scenario is that when things like physx and photoshop optimisations become truly necessary/relevant, the card will need to be upgraded anyway.

p.p.s. - None of the foregoing is to imply that I am an ATi devotee. I just see their current cards presenting better performance, value and efficiency, and feel the kind of elegant engineering they represent should be rewarded. Bundling dubious extra features and rebranding exercises as done by nvidia ought to be discouraged.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The GTX260 216 shader version does perform much better in some games like Crysis but then the HD4870 1gb performs better in others. For example the HD4870 is DX10.1(unlike any Nvidia ones) which is supported in some games like FarCry 2 and hence this leads to better performance.

CS4 acceleration is also supported by ATI HD3*** and HD4*** cards too IIRC.

[scaryjim]

The only mod I'd make to CAT's build is to suggest that instead of a 780G + Phenom II X4, you go for an AM3 Phenom II X3 710 or 720, and put the change (£70 - £90!) into getting an AM2 790GX ATX mobo. Why? i) The 790GX supports full CrossFire, so if you like your new computer but want to bump the power up again in 6 - 12 months you just need to stick another 4870 into it! ii) For gaming + watching video, you don't really need 4 core (you don't *really* need 3 cores, tbh!). iii) The 790GX chipset features an enhanced southbridge, that improves overclocking and (marginally) boosts peripheral performance. iv) there's a theory kicking around that AM3 X3 parts *might* be unlockable to X4 parts with nothing more than a BIOS tweak!

Of course, if you're reusing an mATX case ignore me

Examples: Gigabyte GA-MA790GP-DS4H (ebuyer) and Phenom II X3 720 (ebuyer) total cost £240 (vs. £265 for X4 940 + 780G)

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The only mod I'd make to CAT's build is to suggest that instead of a 780G + Phenom II X4, you go for an AM3 Phenom II X3 710 or 720, and put the change (£70 - £90!) into getting an AM2 790GX ATX mobo. Why? i) The 790GX supports full CrossFire, so if you like your new computer but want to bump the power up again in 6 - 12 months you just need to stick another 4870 into it! ii) For gaming + watching video, you don't really need 4 core (you don't *really* need 3 cores, tbh!). iii) The 790GX chipset features an enhanced southbridge, that improves overclocking and (marginally) boosts peripheral performance. iv) there's a theory kicking around that AM3 X3 parts *might* be unlockable to X4 parts with nothing more than a BIOS tweak!

Of course, if you're reusing an mATX case ignore me

Yep, I was thinking of recommending that also! You can get a decent 790GX for around £80 to £100 and a Phenom II X3 720 for around £125. There is also one mATX 790GX motherboard made by DFI which costs around £120 IIRC. This will cost around the same as a Phenom II X4 940 and a 790GX motherboard. The only advantage is that the Phenom II X4 940 offers better performance out of the box though than a Phenom II X3 720.

[scaryjim]

The only advantage is that the Phenom II X4 940 offers better performance out of the box though than a Phenom II X3 720.

While I'd agree that this is true in general, when gaming with a 4870 either the performance will be GPU constrained, or you'll be returning framerates will in excess of 100fps with either system!

I've heard mixed reviews of the 790GX DFI Lanparty Jr (ebuyer, only 2 in stock!) but if you're using an mATX case that takes full height expansion cards it's probably worth a gander, as it's no more expensive than any other 790GX and still supports 2-way CrossFire.

EDIT: I also just noticed that you have 3GB of memory, presumably in 3 sticks? It might be worth thinking about buying a 4th stick so you can run effectively in dual-channel mode, which will increase your memory bandwidth...