new build advice

[cragside]

Hi,

I haven't upgraded properly for a few years now so it's time for a complete overhaul.
I want a good value gaming system that will run games at 1920x1200 (just got a nice HP LP2475W) and be a bit futureproof.
This is what I've come up with so far:

core 2 duo E8400 (to OC to about 4Ghz) £140 cooled by Scythe Kama Angle £31
Biostar Tpower I45 £114
Corsair Dominator 2x2gb (PC2-8500, 1066mhz, 5-5-5-15) £56
Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB £70
Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 650W £97
Antec Nine Hundred Two £95
Sony Optiarc/NEC AD 7200S-0B DVDRW £17
+ a £200 graphics card = £820

Don't think I'll be overclocking anything except the CPU.

As for the all important graphics card, I can't decide between the GTX 275 and the HD 4890 because they both win depending on which review you read.
The 4890 does seem to have the performance edge though. I really don't want the noise of the stock 4890 fan but I don't know whether to wait for Sapphire's quiet Toxic or Vapor-X version (don't know what the diff is). but then that might be a lot more than £200. Or should I get my own fan for the normal 4890?

A problem with getting the GTX 275 is that the best upgrade route in the future could be getting another 275 for SLI, so that would mean choosing a different mobo as the Biostar only does Crossfire.

I've been out of the loop for ages so any thoughts welcome

[staffsMike]

You need AMD in your life these days.

Try something like,

AMD X3 720 Black Edition ~£110 +Scythe ninja II/Thermalright 120/ Xigmatek Tower ~£30
DFI/Biostar/J&W 790GX ~£100
4GB PC6400 ~£40

650W is a bit overkill tbh, save yourself the money and get something around 500W and don't bother with SLI/ xfire, it won't be worth it with expensive cards like the GTX275.

Should be the same sort of money but you get some serious performance, an extra core and a much better upgrade path (S775 is dead).

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I would also go for an AMD based build too!!

Here is what I would get:

AMD Phenom II X3 720 ~£115

http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=965904

Scythe Ninja II Heatpipe Cooler ~ £33

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Scyth...nd-940-and-AM2

4gb 800mhz DDR2 ~£38

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/4GB-(...d-CAS-5-5-5-18

790GX motherboard ~ £75 to £127

http://www.scan.co.uk/Search.aspx?q=790gx

The X3 720 has an unlocked multiplier and many people have got it to at least 3.4ghz to 3.5ghz(and even more).

If you are lucky you maybe able to unlock the fourth core on the X3 720 with a 790GX motherboards.

[cragside]

thanks. I wasn't going to go for the X3 720 because I read it doesn't perform quite as well as an overclocked E8400, but I'll look into it.

any thoughts on the Radeon 4890 with a different fan?

[jim]

Don't forget though, if you're lucky you'll get a quadcore Phenom (if not still a triple core) which would obviously be preferable to an dualcore.

[WhiteGiant]

Got a similar setup to what you originally suggested, with an overclock to 3.6Ghz (not bothered trying to get higher, just set this speed straight away, and I've only had one blue screen in a couple of months - playing an AVI oddly).

Tears through anything I've thrown at it, but everyone seems to be raving about AMD recently so that might be be worth looking at.

Gotta agree that a 650w PSU seems overkill, I have a fair bit more in my system than you list, and I'm only running a 500w.

[scaryjim]

I wasn't going to go for the X3 720 because I read it doesn't perform quite as well as an overclocked E8400

Never buy a processor based on what it *might* do if you *manage* to overclock it. There's plenty of people who've got the X3 720 to 3.6 - 3.8 GHz on good air cooling at which it undoubtedly outperforms a stock-clocked E8400!

Compare the two processors at stock - using AnandTech's beta CPU benchmarker - X3 720 (blue) vs E8400 (orange). Whether a higher or lower score is better is test-dependant - look through the tests carefully and you'll see a lot more wins for the X3 720 than for the E8400. Add into that the good overclocking potential of the X3 720, the fact that it's £20 cheaper, and the potential to unlock a 4th core on some motherboards, and it becomes a bit of a no brainer, IMNSHO!

Also, don't forget that as multi-core processors start to inflitrate the mainstream (if / when AMD release Phenom II derived processors with no L3 cache this will happen quite quickly!), a lot more progams will be designed to use those extra cores - and the X3 720 will be waiting there to lap them up!

[Sputnik]

Never buy a processor based on what it *might* do if you *manage* to overclock it. There's plenty of people who've got the X3 720 to 3.6 - 3.8 GHz on good air cooling at which it undoubtedly outperforms a stock-clocked E8400!

Compare the two processors at stock - using AnandTech's beta CPU benchmarker - X3 720 (blue) vs E8400 (orange). Whether a higher or lower score is better is test-dependant - look through the tests carefully and you'll see a lot more wins for the X3 720 than for the E8400. Add into that the good overclocking potential of the X3 720, the fact that it's £20 cheaper, and the potential to unlock a 4th core on some motherboards, and it becomes a bit of a no brainer, IMNSHO!

Also, don't forget that as multi-core processors start to inflitrate the mainstream (if / when AMD release Phenom II derived processors with no L3 cache this will happen quite quickly!), a lot more progams will be designed to use those extra cores - and the X3 720 will be waiting there to lap them up!

Slight contradiction within one post there!

But, On topic I'd go for an AMD 720 over any LGA 775 CPU because at least the AMD AM3 is a CPU with some future, Even if it's just to sell it off in a year or so.

[scaryjim]

Slight contradiction within one post there!

Only if you read what I actually wrote, rather than what I meant

What I meant, of course, was "never buy a processor based primarily on what it *might* do...". Which is, I admit, slightly different from what I originally wrote.

But anyway, buying an E8400 instead of an X3 720 because the E8400 overclocks well is like buying an apple instead of a pear because you can plant the apple pips (is that metaphor too weird?) - it's a feature that *both* have, but it's basically incidental to their fitness for purpose. Either an apple or a pear will make a pleasant snack. Either an E8400 or an X3 720 will form the basis of a good performance desktop. After that it's mostly down to personal preference...

[Sputnik]

Only if you read what I actually wrote, rather than what I meant

I know what you mean, I was just being pedantic.

[cragside]

Compare the two processors at stock - using (URL blocked) AnandTech's beta CPU benchmarker - X3 720 (blue) vs E8400 (orange). Whether a higher or lower score is better is test-dependant - look through the tests carefully and you'll see a lot more wins for the X3 720 than for the E8400.

the 720 only has one more win than the E8400, but I take your point it's more futureproof.

I also like the fact that AM3 supports both DDR2 and DDR3.

This is so confusing! Have a look at the current Custom PC magazine and you'll see what I mean.

As for the PSU, I chose the 650W one because it's quiet, cool and stable, and £97. Can anyone recommend a better one for the price?

thanks

[fragster]

525W Enermax MODU82+ for £79.

Should do the job nicely, they are some of the quietest and most efficient PSU's about, I'm picking one up in the coming month

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

If you are going for only a single graphics card or no X2 type card then the Enermax 525w would seem a good choice and also would save you some money. You could put the money saved towards a heatsink for the CPU for example.

[sammorris]

That's a lot to pay for a PSU, even when going for quietness. For that system, 650W is overkill. I would recommend a Corsair HX 520W, it seems quieter than the BeQuiet units, is fabulously powerful (I ran an overclocked Quad core and a 4870X2 off it, only upgraded to add a second X2), and has a huge warranty.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The HX520w is a good choice too. I use one in my backup computer and it is very quiet!!

[sammorris]

With regard to the graphics, the GTX275 is in my mind the better product (i.e. faster card), but lately the HD4890 seems a lot cheaper, so may well be the better value card. The HD4890 runs a lot cooler (65-75ºC versus 90ºC) but I never understood why people got so upset over graphics temps. You can always up the fan speed if you're that bothered. Due to lower fan speed (and hence, higher temps) the GTX 275 by retail is quieter.
Both cards will run fine off an HX 520W, in fact, with a dual core chip they'll even run fine off a VX 450W.