SG04-H and i7

[IronSoil]

Hi

I am planning on building a gaming system in a SFF case.

I choose the Silverstone case, because I will use the computer in 2 separate rooms and sometimes travel with it.

Here is a list of parts that I have looked for:


Silverstone SG04-H

Asus Rampage II gene

Intel Core i7-920

Patriot Viper 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800 (1600MHz) or some equal Corsair memory

Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 4890 Vapor-X 1024MB

Samsung SpinPoint F1 1TB SATA-II 32MB

Corsair HX 520W or Corsair HX 620W

Corsair H50 High-Performance CPU Watercooler



Would this build be very hot inside?

Maybe the only place to mount the Corsair H50 would be in the front?

Should I replace the existing 120mm fan to some less noisier? Can I put some extra fan in the back for exhaust?

I am not sure how much power from the PSU I need for this system?

Would the Scythe's Big Shuriken low-profile CPU-cooler, Thermalright AXP-140 or Nexus LOW-7000 be better than the H50?

I have an ESI MAYA44 PCI sound card that I will use from my current computer.

I almost forgot that I need some wlan adapter too.

Is the D-Link DWA-556 pci-e adapter the only one to get? I need pci-e, because of my soundcard.

Or are the usb receivers as good? They are more cheaper...



Thank you for all the help.

Sorry for my bad english, I am Finnish

[nightkhaos]

That seems like a good setup. Yes, you will find the SFF case ambient will be higher however this will not matter as much if you find a way to mount an H50 within the case.

I do not have an SFF case so I cannot confirm if it possible to mount an H50 sucessfully within the SG-04 through.

Get a 620W PSU to futureproof the machine.

Replacing the fans is always a good idea, but the fan you chose will be based upon personal peferance. I prefer Noctua fans, either P12 or S12Bs depending on requirements.

Why don't you get a USB doogle for your WLAN?

[IronSoil]

Thank you for the quick answer.


In this thread: "I7 920 into a Silverstone Sugo SG02 ?? Feasible ??", in the Chassis & system 'modding' area, member "pollaxe" said he had installed the H50 in the SG04 case. Have asked there but not got any answer.

Sorry don't have 5 post so I can make a link.


How about the memory. Is there any difference in speed and how they handle heat? any 1600 MHz would do?

Is the reception in a usb wling dongle as good as internal? I just wondering because D-Link has 3 antennas. Is there some special model I should get?

I won't be using any crossfire, so would 520W PSU be still too small?

I have also heard good things about Noctua. Would it be good to have 2 120mm fans in front or is 1 enough?

[nightkhaos]

Thank you for the quick answer.


In this thread: "I7 920 into a Silverstone Sugo SG02 ?? Feasible ??", in the Chassis & system 'modding' area, member "pollaxe" said he had installed the H50 in the SG04 case. Have asked there but not got any answer.

Sorry don't have 5 post so I can make a link.

I know the thread. Give them time, most people come on later anyway. It is only 16:22 local for the UK members. Most are still at work.

How about the memory. Is there any difference in speed and how they handle heat? any 1600 MHz would do?

If a memory doesn't work at the advertised speed over a reasonable range of ambient case tempertures, you should be intitled to a refund. I would expect a module to work up to and including 40 degrees ambient. I advise getting either CL7 or CL8 RAM. CL8 RAM is (sometimes) cheaper, CL7 performances (slightly) better. Manufactures will either refer to it as CL, CAS, or even just give you the timings straight (8-8-8-24 for example).

Is the reception in a usb wling dongle as good as internal? I just wondering because D-Link has 3 antennas. Is there some special model I should get?

I very much doubt you require a MIMO card. But if you do you should get a MIMO enabled router, havining otherwise having a MIMO card is kinda pointless, unless you happen to be putting the computer in a basement that eats microwaves for breakfast. (MIMO stands for multi-input, multi-output and means having more than one antenna to improve signal).

However, having a MIMO interface at either end, be it the router or the access card, can improve single performance, but not as much as having MIMO at both ends. Cellphone towers work on this principle.

I won't be using any crossfire, so would 520W PSU be still too small?

520W is fine. But get a 620W anyway, just in case.

I have also heard good things about Noctua. Would it be good to have 2 120mm fans in front or is 1 enough?

More can be better, but it all depends how much they will improve the airflow. There is no put putting a fan in if all it is gonna do is blow air into a solid metal bracket.

For references, Noctua P12s should be used where flow is restricted, and S12Bs should be used everywhere else. For example I use S12Bs for all my case fans except the two fans that go over the HDDs, and P12s everywhere else including on my heatsink.

[pollaxe]

Hi Ironsoil,

I was about to reply to your thread this afternoon but then we had a massive power cut at work so I was a bit tied-up. Don't worry, your English is excellent.

I did indeed fit an H50 into my SG04-H and whilst it's a snug fit it's also a good solution.

My rig has the H50 radiator and supplied 120 mm fan at the top of the front intake of the case and I also managed to squeeze a Noctua P12 120mm onto the bottom. It's not a straight fit though, the radiator has a fat top which means that it fouls against the case so you have to drop it down a little. I can attempt to take some photographs for you if that will help? (Though my camera's low on power and the charger has vanished somewhere!) I would recommend trying to have two fans if you can. I also have my PSU (a 500 w Silverstone ST50EF-Plus-SC) set so it's drawing warm air out of the case (fan facing the H50) plus a Silverstone FX121 SFF Cross Flow Fan mounted in the case that's exhausting air at the rear too.

I don't have an i7 chip, mines an old (slightly warm) E6600 running at a modest 3.2 ghz overclock so I don't know how it'll cool an i7 chip but I imagine it'd be worth a try. I'm very happy with the solution thus far, I'm waiting to mount a replacement H50 in my main rig on a QX6700 after I had to R.M.A. the original cooler due to a fairly serious leak! I've even got a Prolimatech Megahalem on it at the moment with a push-pull fan and it's still 4-5 degrees hotter than the Thermalright 120 I had on there. It's probably the TIM - even though I was very careful - but I have to wait for the H50 to try it as it's out of stock at Scan. But I digress.

Just post up anything here you think I can help you out with and I will do my best.

[IronSoil]

Thank you for the reply.

Sorry for the late reply, I worked nightshift...

I have not build any computers for 3 years, so I would love to see some pictures.

Did you have to cut down something on the radiator to get it fit? The tubes are long enough to reach the cpu?

How is the Silverstone FX121 SFF Cross Flow Fan? I read some reviews that say it is very loud and don't move air very well.

Did the P12 fit well on the front case. or did you have to do something to get it to fit?

I don't know if I can switch the fan on the Corsair PSU to exhaust air?

What do you think of the SG04-H case? Do you like it? Should I buy it or maybe some other SFF case? I like it because it has a handle.

So you don't think it is stupid to put a i7 and a powerful graphicscard in the case?



I plan to order most parts from OcerclockersUK, except for the case, because they ship to Finland. I don't know if Scan ships outside UK? I can get the hole package except case for about 100£ less than from Finland.




One more question about memory:

Is CL8 1600MHz better than CL7 1333MHz? seems to be almost same price? What to get?

[pollaxe]

Hiya Ironsoil, I'll reply this evening (at work at the moment!)

[nightkhaos]

So you don't think it is stupid to put a i7 and a powerful graphicscard in the case?

No.

I plan to order most parts from OcerclockersUK, except for the case, because they ship to Finland. I don't know if Scan ships outside UK? I can get the hole package except case for about 100£ less than from Finland.

OCuk can be slightly expensive and they used to be very bad with their service, particularly RMAs. They seem to be getting better though.

Is CL8 1600MHz better than CL7 1333MHz? seems to be almost same price? What to get?

Okay, let's do some quick math. CL8 means once an instruction is issued it will take 8 clock cycles for the data to be ready, similarly for CL7.

Hence the following formula determines how quickly the RAM will issue out a command, lower is better.

1 / freq * latancy.

For 1333MHz CL7:

1 / 1.333e6 * 7 = 5.251e-6 seconds.
1 / 1.6e6 * 8 = 5.000e-6 seconds.

Hence, 1600MHz CL8 RAM can do memory operations faster than 1333MHz CL7 RAM.

[IronSoil]

Thank you for the memory explanation. I will go with the CL8 1600MHz


Anything more exept for the H50 that I should consider, before ordering the parts?


Any other store recommended that ship to Finland?

[nightkhaos]

Thank you for the memory explanation. I will go with the CL8 1600MHz

You're welcome.

Anything more exept for the H50 that I should consider, before ordering the parts?

I would personally recommend a Western Digital Caviar Black over a Samsung Spinpoint F1, but that's just me, there isn't much real world performance between the two.

Have you considered an SSD, like an 80GiB Intel X25-M coupled with something like a Samsung EcoDrive F2 for storage?

[IronSoil]

SSD are so expensive now. Maybe I will buy one when they are cheaper and the capaciy is bigger.

[pollaxe]

Thank you for the reply.

You're welcome - sorry this is a bit late too. I'm currently typing this whilst kneeling amongst the debris of my main rig which has decided to have a bit of an episode and I'm actually writing this on my SFF SG04-H rig, so I suppose that's appropriate!

I'm going to reply as best I can but I've got no access to anything decent to take photos with currently but I'll do my best to describe stuff and (though this'll be tomorrow at the earliest) try to get some photos posted up to help clarify things.

Did you have to cut down something on the radiator to get it fit? The tubes are long enough to reach the cpu?

No, nothing at all - no modding required. The radiator has slightly raised ends (both top and bottom) which means when I came to mount it in the SG04-H I couldn't get it to fit right at the top. It's very close but essentially it's on the second row of holes on the mesh front cover. Both fans are slightly offset from where they should be; that's to say when you look at the mesh, the circular centres of both fans are slightly lower than intended. I have to say it all seems to work pretty well though - some photos would definitely clarify what I mean.

The tubes are fine for length, indeed they could do with being a little shorter. I had to fiddle around with where I aligned the H50 to get a bit of coil on the tubes. In all honestly they are a bit too close to the graphics card for my liking but they're working fine so no biggy (so far, anyway!)

How is the Silverstone FX121 SFF Cross Flow Fan? I read some reviews that say it is very loud and don't move air very well.

It's okay, I had it here already as it used to be rigged up as a makeshift fan on another PC but as I'd fitted the H50 I realised there was room for it and thought it would help a little. It probably does. I'm not aware of it being noisy but that may be different for you - the room it's used in is pretty noisy anyway and generally has fans running this time of year because it's upstairs and too damned warm. (Roll on winter!)

Did the P12 fit well on the front case. or did you have to do something to get it to fit?

It fits fine with caveat of above that it's a little lower on the frame than it ideally should be - it's moving a good amount of air though.

I don't know if I can switch the fan on the Corsair PSU to exhaust air?

I'd be very surprised if you couldn't - this sounds more complex than it really is. On the PSU there's usually a large fan which will take in cool air and exhaust it out of the back of the honeycomb by the power lead and switch. If you were to mount it this way on the SG04-H then it would draw in cool air from the mesh on the side panel. All I've done is flip the PSU over so this intake fan sits above the CPU and H50 - that way it draws warm air out of the case and exhausts it from the rear of the PSU unit. In other words, you just flip the PSU over.

Some people say this is a bad idea but I have been doing this in two SFF cases with no problems for the last 2-3 years. I had a TT Lanbox before and used an Enermax Liberty 500w in it and the SG04-H in this manner. I've since replaced it with the Silverstone PSU which has short cables and is a much better fit as a result.

What do you think of the SG04-H case? Do you like it? Should I buy it or maybe some other SFF case? I like it because it has a handle.

I do like it! I've become a bit of a Silverstone fan boy over the years - I have three cases including this (an HTTPC and a TJ-09) and I like them all. The SG04-H replaced the TT Lanbox because it looked better and was more suited to the environment it usually sits in - downstairs by the large tv (as a media centre of sorts.) I regularly take it to LANs with a few other friends and I really like the portability of it (more portable than the Lanbox by far.) I have one of those Sugo carrying bags (I got it for the Lanbox) and it fits nicely in there too so it's very portable indeed. Of course, being a black case beware of scratches!

So you don't think it is stupid to put a i7 and a powerful graphicscard in the case?

No I don't! I think the H50 is about the best cooler you can get in there simply due to the confined space, in many ways it's perfect for SFF cases generally. I have a GTX 275 in mine which is fairly warm and the case does pump out some pretty warm air when I've been at LANs but definitely not dangerously hot and with no temp warnings or failures anyway.

I've no experience with i7s but I'd say it would probably have a very good go at cooling it.

Okay I think everything's been answered - I hope I can get some photos up in the near future to show you a bit more clearly what I'm trying to explain... in the meantime, I think I'll get my hammer and go back to my main rig...

[pollaxe]

Ok, I got my phone and took some shots. As you can see, they're not great but I hope they'll help to illustrate what I mean a bit better..

This is what I meant about the mounting being one hole lower that it should be on the frame. Because of the size of the radiator (which is a bit wider than the 120 mm fan on both top and bottom) it had to be dropped down a little further.
The Noctua sits at the bottom - as you should (hopefully) be able to see, they're a little offset from the centres of the mesh. It doesn't seem to affect the airflow however.

The gap on the bottom of screen left is where the floppy disk is supposed to go, I left it out as I don't use one with it.


A (very poor) side view showing the radiator in place and the Noctua just below it..


Rear view.. the PSU is inverted so the hot air is coming towards the camera through the honeycomb metal at the back. The Sugo SFF fan (is next to it) also exhausts heat towards the camera.
If I had the PSU the 'right way' around then you'd see the fan on the outside of the case, instead of the blank metal you can see in this shot..

Anyway, I hope this helps a bit...

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Why doesn't the OP go for the Core i5?? It runs cooler,consumes less power,is around the same speed in many applications as a Core i7 and will be cheaper too.

[nightkhaos]

Why doesn't the OP go for the Core i5?? It runs cooler,consumes less power,is around the same speed in many applications as a Core i7 and will be cheaper too.

Excellent point. That depends, when precisely were you going to order your equipment?

[IronSoil]

Thank you very much for all the answers and pictures.

I am going to order the part witin a week, so I think i5 is out of it? I read that it should be released somewhere in October?

How would the HD 4770 graphicscard be? I have read that it should be pretty fast and cooler than the 4890?

I now have a 19" monitor, but will be buying soon a 24-26" monitor. I have read that using 1920x1200 resolution, it should be at least a 1Gb graphicscard?


I am just not sure if I should buy the Silverstone FX121 SFF Cross Flow Fan?

Maybe I can buy it later if I find it useful...

So I think I will order the setup on my first post + the P12 fan + some wlan dongle.

It seems to be hard to find the Corsair H50.


Any other store I could order the setup, than from OverclockersUK? I need shipping to Finland and hopefully low prices.