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Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
I'm running out of storage - again...
Irritatingly however, finding decent reviews of the latest hard drives is proving difficult because everyone is obsessing over SSDs...
Everything seems to be pointing to the Samsung F1 still being the drive of choice, which confuses me, as it was released in 2007. Are there new model numbers I should be looking for, or are there newer superior drives that top it for performance.
All I am looking for is a terabyte drive with top performance, costing around £50-£60, which doesn't make too much noise... Primarily for gaming, but general snappiness is the priority :)
Can anyone offer me any advice?
Many thanks in advance
EG
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
In 2007 it won't have cost you £50-60!
It's a great drive, but not alone in being good - the Western Digital Black and Seagate 1TB drives are also great.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
I'd say Caviar Black too, but it is over £60 by more than a few quid.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Yeah, the WD 1TB Black is the best drive out there at the capacity as far as I'm concerned, but the F1 is still an excellent drive, and cheaper (coming from the guy who owns seven of them ;))
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
snootyjim
Yeah, the WD 1TB Black is the best drive out there at the capacity as far as I'm concerned, but the F1 is still an excellent drive, and cheaper (coming from the guy who owns seven of them ;))
Seven?
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
im in the same situation, looking for a new drive and i've almost decided that its gona be the WD black.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
I am very much swayed by the Black too at this moment, good performance and a 5 year warranty.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
The Black is a noisy drive though, that would put me off, looks like it might be an F1 for me then...
http://techreport.com/articles.x/15363/13
Remember that 3dB is twice as loud.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Not only is Samsung's new Spinpoint F1 a valuable addition to the existing terabyte drive offerings. It is also a multi-faceted product family that can address capacity demands, performance requirements and also cost pressures.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
I am not sure why the readings are so different between the site you linked and this one. For what it's worth, I find them inaudible on idle in a non-silent system (i.e. one with a stock GTS250 Green drive cooler).
I decided to have a closer look at the new Seagate after kalniel mentioned it (I've not really followed Seagate's for a while, due to some of the negative press they had a while back, and several unimpressive releases). It does look like the latest 7200.12 ticks many boxes: http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2...1033.html?prod[2360]=on&prod[2369]=on
Pretty much faster and quieter than the F1. Having said that, I am a little weary of Seagate's because my last drive, while perfectly functional, was a lot noisier than some reviews reported. Apparently, I wasn't alone in this and it wasn't a hardware fault - just a different batch made in a different country.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Alot of ppl around these forums seem to have had problems with F1, hmmm seems odd maybe they are a one off? thou with the price cuts, this is a bargin buy !! If you get the Samsung F1 make sure its not the EcoGreen F1 get the Samsung SpinPoint F1 HD103UJ - Selling at ebuyer.com for £57.80. and with all your spare drives get a NAS box.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Why not move up a class to a 1.5TB Ecogreen F2?
Assuming you use it purely for storage there is really no need for a 7200rpm drive, and the 5400rpm F2 is neck-to-neck against 7200rpm F1 on sequential transfer due to its higher density platter.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
We should be seeing the Samsung Spinpoint F3 with 1TB on two platters soon, right?
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
I have one of the older Sammy 500GB drives and it hasn't let me down so far!
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooNice
I am not sure why the readings are so different between the site you linked and
this one. For what it's worth, I find them inaudible on idle in a non-silent system (i.e. one with a stock GTS250 Green drive cooler).
Thanks for all your comments. Could anyone else weigh in on whether their experience of the Black is of a noisy drive or not. It's kind of a subjective thing I know, but it's the thrashing noise that irritates the most for me (when the drive is seeking).
@arthurleung, I considered the 1.5TB for a while, but it too is noisy and I think I'll be putting a fresh install of windows on it and using it as my OS drive, so speed does matter :)
It's been nearly two years since I installed XP on this machine so it's about time :rolleyes:, of course, that means deciding whether to go Win7 full time - or sticking with XP... Choices choices.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EarlGrey
No 10dB is twice as loud, its a logarithmic scale with 60 as a base line which is "ordinary conversation". An increase of 10dB is twice as loud.
Your getting confused in that an increase of 3dB is twice as much power :confused:
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EarlGrey
@arthurleung, I considered the 1.5TB for a while, but it too is noisy and I think I'll be putting a fresh install of windows on it and using it as my OS drive, so speed does matter :)
I have the 1TB of the F2, and it is definitely inaudible on the quiet system that I have (I am using a TRUE and Accelero with 800-1000RPM fans to cool the CPU and GFX card). It's possible that the extra platter changes that. I'll find out by the end of the day, since I have 1.5TB F2 waiting to be used :)
I am using that F2 as a system drive as a temporary measure. It will need to be wiped eventually as I am using Windows 7 RC on it and I am thinking of going SSD possibly then (depending on price). Frankly speaking, it's not bad at all performance wise. It didn't make me miss the Raptor on non-quiet system though I do not doubt that side by side, the Raptor (and the F1/Caviar Black for that matter) will be faster for your purpose.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
may I humbly suggest a Hitachi 1 gig drive...?
:) my 1gig Hitachi is much faster than my Sammy F1 750 gig drive, and cheap enough to upgrade it next year and keep as spare drive :)
http://forums.hexus.net/hexus-hardwa...-sammy-f1.html
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jace007
Alot of ppl around these forums seem to have had problems with F1, hmmm seems odd maybe they are a one off?
When lots of people buy them, expect to see reports of failures. If everyone who hasn't had a problem with them posted, the forums would be flooded.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
I still like the Western Digitial RE drives in RAID 1
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zak33
may I humbly suggest a Hitachi 1 gig drive...?
I had a very close look at that drive (online that is), as I was seriously considering one when they went for about £50 on Scan last week. It looks to me that for the 1TB at least if you look outside sequential transfers though, they are very much neck in neck. There are some benchmarks where the F1 trounces the Hitachi too. Also keep in mind that larger drives tend to give better sequential transfer results so the difference should be narrower if you were comparing two 1TB drives.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Exactly - the 750gb drive is a lot slower than the F1 1tb - as you see later in that thread I tested the sammy 1TB and it beat out Zak33s hitachi test.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
I've got a small aversion (sp?) to Sammy's now, because I've failed to install Vista to two separate F1 drives on two separate mobo's and I still don't know why. They drives are not recognised by Vista 64 at install, nor Vista 32 Home, but they ARE recognised by XP SP2 and DO show in the BIOS of the PC's in question.
Once OS is installed and running (on another HDD), the drives ARE visible, and can be formatted through Vista. It's a weird error and one I dislike cos it adds work to otherwise simple installs.
They seem to be less compatible with various BIOS's than WD and Hitachi drives, though I know not why :(
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shaithis
When lots of people buy them, expect to see reports of failures. If everyone who hasn't had a problem with them posted, the forums would be flooded.
:)
I use a Spinpoint F1 HD103UJ 1TB as my storage drive, I've had no problems at all with it. I can only notice it whirring when I try to listen for it, but I'd imagine the case would be the same for most hard disks, being that the loudest thing in my system is my GTX 295's fan.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
WD Black do tend to make more nosie, their platters are alot more hotter too around 46c but not more hotter than the Hitachi drives which i dont think are anything special. Ive always liked WD harddrive due to their reliablity, seagate 1tb are'nt bad either. I think i'll still buy a Samsung F1, and if it has issues RMA it.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zak33
I've got a small aversion (sp?) to Sammy's now, because I've failed to install Vista to two separate F1 drives on two separate mobo's and I still don't know why. They drives are not recognised by Vista 64 at install, nor Vista 32 Home, but they ARE recognised by XP SP2 and DO show in the BIOS of the PC's in question.
Once OS is installed and running (on another HDD), the drives ARE visible, and can be formatted through Vista. It's a weird error and one I dislike cos it adds work to otherwise simple installs.
They seem to be less compatible with various BIOS's than WD and Hitachi drives, though I know not why :(
Were you plugging them into a RAID capable controller but not using the RAID BIOS to configure them? (remember only one of the two on-board RAID controllers can be accessed via the main BIOS on many boards)
I had a similar issue with W7RC until I provided the install with the RAID controller driver - then all was well.
I've been using my RAID1 pair of F1 750's for over a year now and am happy so far. Their performance is such that running RAID1 is not an issue when compared to older single-drive setups. With drives being so cheap I'd urge any enthusiast who can cope with a RAID rebuild to use RAID1 for their boot/install drives. It saves hours of pain if a drive does fail.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fuzzed_out
No 10dB is twice as loud, its a logarithmic scale with 60 as a base line which is "ordinary conversation". An increase of 10dB is twice as loud.
Your getting confused in that an increase of 3dB is twice as much power :confused:
Dammit, you're right. Thanks for pointing that out, I really shouldn't be getting confused with a degree in physics, but hey :P
For anyone else looking for a sanity check - http://trace.wisc.edu/docs/2004-About-dB/
Back on topic; maybe I should just blow the budget and get one of these:
http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=640
Hopefully reviews should be out soon.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UseItNow
Seven?
Well, 1 of the 320GB version and 6 of the 1TB version.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vimeous
Were you plugging them into a RAID capable controller but not using the RAID BIOS to configure them? (remember only one of the two on-board RAID controllers can be accessed via the main BIOS on many boards)
I had a similar issue with W7RC until I provided the install with the RAID controller driver - then all was well.
you've lost me there bud. I can install Vista on every drive I have, on any SATA port I have.. but not on this drive. Mobo IS RAID capable and it's not being used, and no other drive I have needed such a thing.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zak33
you've lost me there bud. I can install Vista on every drive I have, on any SATA port I have.. but not on this drive. Mobo IS RAID capable and it's not being used, and no other drive I have needed such a thing.
It's just I had a similar problem recently installing 64-bit W7RC onto an 320Gb F1 on an ASUS P6T motherboard. The two drives I'd installed weren't recognised.
So I restarted the install - this time providing drivers for the RAID array as though I wanted a RAID config - and hey ho the drives appeared ready to be installed upon.
That said it took trial and error to get the right drivers off the ASUS disk.
I wander if a firmware update is required but I have never checked as I got it working *sighs*
n-e-way
F1's or Caviars for me. RE-series if you've the cash :)
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EarlGrey
I have to ask, 'why'. Are you space constrained (e.g. using a Shuttle)? If not, then you are coming very close to a price territory of a Velociraptor/small SSD + 1.5GB Samsung F2 combo.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooNice
I have to ask, 'why'.
I wasn't really serious, I am budget constrained more than anything else...
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Yeah, that confused me even more. You started with a budget of around £60 then mentioned something that's probably going to be launched at over £200 :laugh:
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
snootyjim
Yeah, the WD 1TB Black is the best drive out there at the capacity as far as I'm concerned, but the F1 is still an excellent drive, and cheaper (coming from the guy who owns seven of them ;))
After a dead WD drive (the only one in the past 8 years) and the noise problem with the WD Raptor, I would never touch them. :(
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
the noise issue with a raptor was a 10K spindle!
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jay
the noise issue with a raptor was a 10K spindle!
Fair enough. But I am sure most people would agree raptor (or whatever they are called now) has been to the end of the road - you either choose the TB drives for storage or SSD for performance.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
fedora yeah your right there, the Velocaraptor hhd have had their day, and with prices dropping fast for SSD which are alot faster they are worth every penny. 120GB SSD for O/S and games is cool. Early tests on Windows 7 systems look impressive.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fedora
After a dead WD drive (the only one in the past 8 years) and the noise problem with the WD Raptor, I would never touch them. :(
Well, go back 3 years and everybody seemed to be saying that Seagate were the gods of all things disky, and then they released those drives (were they 1.5TB?) with the dodgy firmware and suddenly they weren't cream of the crop any more. Then WD and Seagate were mostly seen on an even stage.
The Deathstars are still known as Deathstars despite it being heck knows how long since they were actually dying all the time, people don't trust Samsung because lots of people reported failed F1 Spinpoints on the web, I didn't trust Maxtor after I put an old Maxtor drive in my machine, which promptly broke and slowed my PC right down. Even now that Maxtor is owned by Seagate I don't think I could bring myself to buy one of their drives.
At the end of the day, hard drives fail every now and again so each person you speak to has their own opinion about what is a good brand, and what is a bad brand... I don't honestly think there's much in it to be honest.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Over the years I've bought a lot of different HDDs, both for myself and for builds for other people. I personally suffered two losses of Deathstars which has forever put me off IBM/Hitachi; I used to put Maxtors in machines I built, but they were about as refined and reliable as a Lada; more recently I had a WD Raptor fry its controller board (my C drive as well!) and the amount of reviews I read warning about issues with F1's makes me worry about all the media I have sat on the F1 in my machine...
Put simply, the only brand of HDD that I have never had a problem with or worry about is Seagate. I know they usually cost a bit more, but when I throw together a new rig in October any conventional HDDs I buy will be Seagate.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Both the previous two posters illustrate the situation with hard drive manufacturers ably.
The issue with the 40Gb Deathstars and Fujitsu drives is long gone but not easily forgotten. In fact any failure causes distrust where data is lost but we're lucky there's such a wide choice that we can forego manufacturers we've had issues with.
Privately for me Seagates have been the least reliable and while I have had Maxtor failures considering the number of drives I've had it's not as bad as it seems. Mind you all of the failures are from the Seagate era......
At work it's a similar story with IBM, Fujitsu, Maxtor and Seagate all suffering repeated terminal failures. However it's very rare these are within the first three years and so lifespans aren't unreasonable.
As always listen to the body of experience and make your choice. Then backup! :)
N.B. My siggie contains 2 Samsungs, 8 Maxtors, and 6 Western Digitals. All but the Sammys are supposedly RAID level drives. Crucially atm they work. Read into that what you will.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
The Velociraptor is quieter than most 7.2k RPM drives: http://www.storagereview.com/php/ben...1=361&devCnt=2 (and faster too).
SSD's time will come, but the price is still (too) high, and it's not really dropping that fast (there are months where prices actually increase).
I also note that Seagate had that rather infamous firmware issue, so they are hardly in the clear in my book. Ultimately, use enough drives and you'll run into one that'll fail you. I tend to look at individual models, the Deskstar of the old is completely different from the Deskstar today so it doesn't really make sense to still hold them against them.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
To go back to the earlier question, I have a 1TB Caviar Black that is audible when it has a thrashing session, but 95% of the time I don't hear/notice it.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EarlGrey
@arthurleung, I considered the 1.5TB for a while, but it too is noisy and I think I'll be putting a fresh install of windows on it and using it as my OS drive, so speed does matter :)
I am formatting a 1.5TB F2 from a HD Dock (no enclosure) now and it is not noisy at all. I dare not say that it's inaudible as I am not using my near silent system, but I can't hear it over my 'normal' system. I'll see if it'll make more noise once I start moving files.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Open up the Hard Drive and spray some WD40 it'll sort it out :) LOL
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vimeous
Both the previous two posters illustrate the situation with hard drive manufacturers ably.
The issue with the 40Gb Deathstars and Fujitsu drives is long gone but not easily forgotten. In fact any failure causes distrust where data is lost but we're lucky there's such a wide choice that we can forego manufacturers we've had issues with.
Privately for me Seagates have been the least reliable and while I have had Maxtor failures considering the number of drives I've had it's not as bad as it seems. Mind you all of the failures are from the Seagate era......
At work it's a similar story with IBM, Fujitsu, Maxtor and Seagate all suffering repeated terminal failures. However it's very rare these are within the first three years and so lifespans aren't unreasonable.
As always listen to the body of experience and make your choice. Then backup! :)
N.B. My siggie contains 2 Samsungs, 8 Maxtors, and 6 Western Digitals. All but the Sammys are supposedly RAID level drives. Crucially atm they work. Read into that what you will.
Most of the reliability issue can be solved by using RAID-1/5/6. Seagate, Hitachi, WD, Samsung, Maxtor all have their fair share of failure.
The worst of all kind is the one like Seagate's firmware problem. It frequently wreck RAID arrays (even though the disk is fine!) even with the new firmware.
IMO the current generation (7200.11 and 5900.12) Seagate drives are fundamentally flawed. One of my friend had 8 of them in RAID5 and it soft-failed, destroying the RAID table and took me about 2 weeks to "recover". Another friend of mine get BSOD every hour and have no money to replace the disk.
RAID level or not, drives do fail. Me and a couple of friends have a total of about 60 drives, about 1:1 split of consumer and "enterprise" drive. The failure rate is about the same. You really only paying for the extra warranty.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fedora
Fair enough. But I am sure most people would agree raptor (or whatever they are called now) has been to the end of the road - you either choose the TB drives for storage or SSD for performance.
Not really. By the time an SSD has written itself to death, the Velociraptor will still carry on spinning with many more years of life left in 'em. Then you have to compare prices, you can get more velociraptor and storage for your money. The disk is also optimised for many parallel disk operations. SSDs start getting jammed up with 2 or 3 processes trying to do I/O at the same time.
Velociraptors and SSDs are aiming to do different things. You can't just say SSD > Veloicraptor, and that's it. It really depends on what you're doing with the disk.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aidanjt
Not really. By the time an SSD has written itself to death, the Velociraptor will still carry on spinning with many more years of life left in 'em. Then you have to compare prices, you can get more velociraptor and storage for your money. The disk is also optimised for many parallel disk operations. SSDs start getting jammed up with 2 or 3 processes trying to do I/O at the same time.
Velociraptors and SSDs are aiming to do different things. You can't just say SSD > Veloicraptor, and that's it. It really depends on what you're doing with the disk.
Not really ;)
I think SSDs are at the point now where they are the definitive way to improve performance in your machine - if you can afford it. Still too expensive for me, but I'm hoping they drop sufficiently in price by the new year to consider getting one :)
Anand has done a great roundup of SSDs, which is a worthwhile read for anyone interested.
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/sho...px?i=3631&p=20
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aidanjt
Not really. By the time an SSD has written itself to death, the Velociraptor will still carry on spinning with many more years of life left in 'em.
I'm not sure that's true - it can take a very long time indeed for an SSD to write itself to death, and it's not really death in that case anyway as you can still read the data fine. But a mechanical break and it's far harder to get the data.
Quote:
The disk is also optimised for many parallel disk operations. SSDs start getting jammed up with 2 or 3 processes trying to do I/O at the same time.
That's the wrong way around - mechanical drives get jammed up with many parrallel disk operations, SSDs on the other hand can cope with many more I/Os at multiple depths.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
I'm trying very very hard not to buy an F2 eco 1.5tb at the moment, and wait till Xmas.
it's a backup for my server, and my DVD VIDEO_TS backups. If I lose them... it doesn't bear thinking about. It would be backing up a couple of F1 1tb drives (not full yet).
Must wait till christmas... must wait till christmas...
For the record: Sammys all the way for me. I've got a 74gb raptor as my main c drive, have had for about 4 - 5 years now, and it's starting to grind when the computer gets busy.
Which freaks me out, as surely it should be the CPU that takes the brunt? it's all very confusing.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kalniel
That's the wrong way around - mechanical drives get jammed up with many parrallel disk operations, SSDs on the other hand can cope with many more I/Os at multiple depths.
See JMicron-based SSDs for a shining example of SSDs choking hard under non-trivial loads.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aidanjt
See JMicron-based SSDs for a shining example of SSDs choking hard under non-trivial loads.
Straw man argument. Find me a Samsung/Indilinx/Intel based SSD that chokes under less load than a velociraptor.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
I think that Raptors are great drives and I think that in the past, people have been talking about their obsolescence prematurely. But while it's still kicking (if only due to the high cost of SSD), I do think that the people who repeatedly claim obsolescence will get it right.
And I do think that it is SSD that will do it. I think that those drives are largely aimed at enthusiasts looking for a fast response OS. They do not need a huge capacity for that purpose, meaning that a larger (Veloci)Raptor may not be that interesting, and they expect to pay a premium. Only that current SSD command a premium higher than I, and I reckon many, find excessive. But I think that once the price of SSD drop by a certain amount (different for everyone, but lets say 50%), I reckon that a lot more people will consider it even if the Raptor's price drop by an even greater amount (say 75%). Of all the benchmarks that I've seen, once you exclude JMicron, the Velociraptor only seem to have sequential transfers over some of the SSDs.
The only part I am skeptical is how fast the price SSD may drop (a lot of people seem to make far more optimistic predictions than I am).
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
badass
Straw man argument. Find me a Samsung/Indilinx/Intel based SSD that chokes under less load than a velociraptor.
'A' velociraptor?.. Remember, you can get more than 3 300gb velociraptors for the cost of a high-end Samsung or Intel SSD. 3 300gb velociraptors alone working in a stripe exceed SATAII bandwidth limitations. And you get fault tolerance, and you get capacity, and you have a proven mass storage technology and product family which lasts.
I'm not saying SSDs are useless. They have their place. And they do a great job for enthusiast e-peen. But if you care about your data, and look at performance as more than a factor of benchmark fapping, then velociraptors are still very useful.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aidanjt
'A' velociraptor?.. Remember, you can get more than 3 300gb velociraptors for the cost of a high-end Samsung or Intel SSD.
I thought you were talking about inherent advantages. If you're talking cost then you can get goodness knows how many Sammy F1s for the cost of 3 300gb Velociraptors, giving better performance and storage for the money in the tasks that the raptors would compete with the SSDs.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kalniel
I thought you were talking about inherent advantages. If you're talking cost then you can get goodness knows how many Sammy F1s for the cost of 3 300gb Velociraptors, giving better performance and storage for the money in the tasks that the raptors would compete with the SSDs.
For linear reads, maybe...
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aidanjt
For linear reads, maybe...
Even better for writes.
But if you're worried about small random reads/writes then a single SSD will destroy 3 raptors anyway. That's the point that's being made - if cost is no limit then a raptor is better than a conventional drive - just. But then if cost is no limit then a SSD is even better, by some margin. If cost is a limit then you would do better with conventional drives as well, so the Raptor's place in the market is rapidly disappearing.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Fore storage I would go for an F2 1.5tb without a moment's thought
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aidanjt
'A' velociraptor?.. Remember, you can get more than 3 300gb velociraptors for the cost of a high-end Samsung or Intel SSD. 3 300gb velociraptors alone working in a stripe exceed SATAII bandwidth limitations. And you get fault tolerance, and you get capacity, and you have a proven mass storage technology and product family which lasts.
I'm not saying SSDs are useless. They have their place. And they do a great job for enthusiast e-peen.
I find it ironic that you talk about stripping Velociraptors before attaching 'e-peens' to SSD. I've tried Velociraptor in RAID-0 just because I had the chance to do so (not my money). I thought that was pointless beyond the few benchmarks. I would be disappointed if for the same cost (excluding the controller), the 160GB Intel X-25M G2 would not be an all-round faster drive. Yeah, it's no secret that it'll lose in sequential transfer, but where else? Can two, or even three Velociraptor make up the fact that they are much, much slower at small random read/write, beneficial in an OS drive? And granted, it has 3.75x the capacity, but in a competition for capacity the Velociraptor will lose to 7.2k drives. You basically need an application that needs higher capacity than SSD will provide, yet higher performance than 7.2k drives will (not an OS drive, nor a mass storage drive). Perhaps some server applications, where it faces off SCSI/SAS drives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aidanjt
But if you care about your data, and look at performance as more than a factor of benchmark fapping, then velociraptors are still very useful.
I care about my data. I backup. So should anyone who care about their data no matter if they are using SSD, 7200RPM drives, Raptor, SCSI drives and so on.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
I'm going to add my 10 cents here just to add confusion :rolleyes:
I have used a 74 Gb raptor as a boot drive on my home tower system, it's cool quiet running, seek noise is a bit more than a standard drive but its not loud I admire its engineering it really is a great product.
I have two ssd drives (One a birthday present from her who must be..) and the other I just had to have as the first one was so good.
In my Advent netbook it was just such a great upgrade low noise and heat, the WD 80Gb drive it came with would park the heads so much it drove me mad I'm not joking thats not the point here though.
The netbook runs much cooler with the 64 GB G.Skill Falcon and its much faster to boot up, better battery life, so its win win in this application.
I had to have one in my other notebook so I splashed out on a crucial 64 Gb I ran this on a desktop just to see how it did, well it was fine very fast as I expected.
Would I replace my main systems raptor ? Yes if the price was the same otherwise no.
I think they are the future even now they are fast, applications load is faster (Subjectively) but thats only a small time difference unless you launch everything at once. In my limited use so far SSD for the win.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
I forgot to say I did some optimizing for the SSD I used a RAM Drive cache for my internet cache folder and stopped auto defrag in vista. This is because SSD has limited writes as I understand. It was just in case I'm not sure if its needed.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Do you mean 'same price you paid for your Raptor' at the time, or 'same price per GB as a Raptor at the time of the future purpose'. It's your criteria of course, I suspect that the Raptor series will remain cheaper than SSD for as long as they are still being made at any same date (assuming that they do not use that name for their own SSD - as far as I know, WD is also investing in SSD now - well, they already have via a recent acquisition).
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooNice
Do you mean 'same price you paid for your Raptor' at the time, or 'same price per GB as a Raptor at the time of the future purpose'. It's your criteria of course, I suspect that the Raptor series will remain cheaper than SSD for as long as they are still being made at any same date (assuming that they do not use that name for their own SSD - as far as I know, WD is also investing in SSD now - well, they already have via a recent acquisition).
TooNice I'm not sure what you are asking but if an SSD is a lot more cost, I would be happy with a Raptor. ( did I say that....(Happy) its not long ago I was thrilled to have a Raptor 10,000 Rpm Dogs do dar) (E Peen)
For me on a day to day machine with a raptor is fine speed wise.
The SSD are nice :)
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Sorry, maybe I wasn't very clear. How much was the 74GB Raptor when you bought it?
Let's say it costed £120 at the time, will you then swap it for SSD when a (good) 80GB SSD costs £120?
Or, will you only consider once the price per GB is similar on any given date. For instance, today, some of the most recommended SSD drive cost just over £2-2.50/GB, whereas a Velociraptor cost about £0.50/GB. But if price for SSD drop to about 0.60/GB while the Raptor is at £0.50, then you would consider it. The point I was making is I suspect it would take a few years for SSD to drop to the price of a Raptor now, and by then, the Raptor that is being made, even if it is a newer model, will cost still quite a bit less.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooNice
Sorry, maybe I wasn't very clear. How much was the 74GB Raptor when you bought it?
Let's say it costed £120 at the time, will you then swap it for SSD when a (good) 80GB SSD costs £120?
Or, will you only consider once the price per GB is similar on any given date. For instance, today, some of the most recommended SSD drive cost just over £2-2.50/GB, whereas a Velociraptor cost about £0.50/GB. But if price for SSD drop to about 0.60/GB while the Raptor is at £0.50, then you would consider it. The point I was making is I suspect it would take a few years for SSD to drop to the price of a Raptor now, and by then, the Raptor that is being made, even if it is a newer model, will cost still quite a bit less.
Raptors are good, SSD's are good, Normal "Eco what ever" are good you need to look at your needs and lusts (speed) v price SSD's are fast if cost was no factor I would have 10 and 10 for backup SSD's that is :) ten year data retention I hope. good as a general term they can all be bad when they fail as they will.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
ive got a 500gb f1 and its a brilliant drive
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
I own it, big fan, prefer it to my old WD.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
I have the 1tb version and its excellent :D
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
switchmode
I'm going to add my 10 cents here just to add confusion :rolleyes:
I have used a 74 Gb raptor as a boot drive on my home tower system, it's cool quiet running, seek noise is a bit more than a standard drive but its not loud I admire its engineering it really is a great product.
I have two ssd drives (One a birthday present from her who must be..) and the other I just had to have as the first one was so good.
In my Advent netbook it was just such a great upgrade low noise and heat, the WD 80Gb drive it came with would park the heads so much it drove me mad I'm not joking thats not the point here though.
The netbook runs much cooler with the 64 GB G.Skill Falcon and its much faster to boot up, better battery life, so its win win in this application.
I had to have one in my other notebook so I splashed out on a crucial 64 Gb I ran this on a desktop just to see how it did, well it was fine very fast as I expected.
Would I replace my main systems raptor ? Yes if the price was the same otherwise no.
I think they are the future even now they are fast, applications load is faster (Subjectively) but thats only a small time difference unless you launch everything at once. In my limited use so far SSD for the win.
Thanks for weighing in switchmode :)
Its good to get feedback from someone who's actually using the new drives. Sadly I have had to reorganise, burn to DVD and delete bits and bobs to make space to tie me over, and I'll wait on the next paycheck to get an F1, which seems to be the best compromise between cost and decent speed.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
The Samsung F3 is out in some places (out of the UK), so it's shouldn't be long before they show up here. The next gen Hitachi shouldn't be long off either. Then again, they are bound to be more expensive.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
WD Black's are the way to go - hopefully theyll release a 500gb/platter version, but the 333gb/platter versions are blisteringly fast (for a mechanical drive), and are not all that expensive either!
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooNice
The Samsung F3 is out in some places (out of the UK), so it's shouldn't be long before they show up here. The next gen Hitachi shouldn't be long off either. Then again, they are bound to be more expensive.
ooh :)
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/1TB-S...-89-ms-NCQ-OEM
As I understand these have two 500GB platters, which should make them faster than the F1. They claim to be quieter, faster and more energy efficient, but I can't find any reviews yet...
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
Wow, that's cheap for something so new. There are some figures from end users, but it's the usual sequential transfer measurements (in this aspect, they beat even the Caviar Black).
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
From reading around, my general take on the new F3 vs the Caviar Black is that the Black has quicker access times and they have comparable sustained read/write performance.
I am still happy that I have a Caviar Black in my rig, but I'm seriously thinking about putting a 500GB F3 in the mATX Phenom build that I'm doing for my Dad, because it is cheaper and cooler whilst offering close to leading performance.
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Re: Is the Samsung F1 still the drive of choice?
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/sto...3-1tb-review/1
Yes, this answers my question. I just bought the 1TB F3, and it is good :)