£1-1.6k P55 Build - Any Advice?

[Cambion]

Hi everyone!

Jump to the bottom if you don't want to read my waffle in between. :-) Any input will be gratefully received.

~~~ Detail ~~~

As I've (somehow) managed to get a new job it's probably time to upgrade from my Athlon XP... I've done a bunch of reading and have come up with the following list. Do you have any thoughts or suggestions?

I'm quite sensitive to noise (my current setup has a Zalman Reserator cooling it) and plan on watercooling the components in the future. (Hopefully recycling the reserator and adding a decent radiator if it can't cope). I'll probably overclock it a bit when I do so but only casually.

I plan on playing some games, (RTS, FPS, racing and keep playing Civ4 FFH2 :-) ), watch some films, do a bunch of work and play a bunch of poker.

I plan on getting a new monitor to compliment my VX922 (once I've got my soldering iron out to cure it from the capacitor plague it seems to have recently developed...) and I want one I can see without contrast distortion while lying on my bed (I have to sit up a bit with a TN) so I'm going to go for the U2410. (I figure if I'm going to spend all my time staring at it, it should be the highest quality thing I can get hold of).

I plan on reusing my 5.1 speakers I already have though they are getting on a bit and I might consider replacing them if you have any ideas.

I'm a little overwhelmed by the choice in motherboards; I've (rather arbitrarily) chosen to go for a Gigabyte UD3 but the differences between vanilla, R, L and P seem minute. I don't care about SLI or RAID and have a PCI WLAN card and a TV turner I might put it. I can't really see the point in eSATA currently. It seems any of them would be ok. Is there anything I should know about?

£180 for a SSD seems an awful lot but everyone raves about them so I think I'll get one. Just I have a feeling of unease when in a years time they will be twice as fast, twice as large and 1/2 the price...

Is getting the AcoustiPack kit a waste with a decent case? Does it matter who makes my HDD or Blu-Ray drive? How many people have read this far? I'm aching to find the answers to all these questions...

~~~ End of detail ~~~


Is this a suitably balanced system?

Greg

Case:
Antec p183 - 514 mm (H) x 205 mm (W) x 507 mm (D) £112

PSU:
Antec CP-850 (only with p183) £90

MB:
GA-P55-UD3/R/P/L £100

GPU:
Radeon 5850 £212

CPU:
I7 860 £220

HDD:
1.5TB (no idea what make) £80

Ram:
4GB dual channel kit £70
Eg. G.Skill RipJaws 1600MHz DDR3 Dual Channel Kit (£75)
Or Crucial 4GB kit (2GBx2), 240-pin DIMM, DDR3 PC3-8500 (£65)

Blu-Ray + DVDRW (no idea what make) £80

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Sub total £964
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Optional:

SSD:
Intel X25 M G2 £175

AcoustiPack ULTIMATE Multi-Layered Material Kit £30

HDD cage / silencer

Fans (note 2x 120 mm fans included with case):
120mm Noctura NF-S12B FLX 0 * £15.84


Monitor:
Dell Ultrasharp U2410 £450

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TOTAL
£1619
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[nightkhaos]

First off do you need HT? If you do please go for a i7 920. You'll be much better off in terms of overclockability and performance than the 860 overall. Otherwise go for an i5 750. Below I will spec you a 750 system which I think you will be happy with.



I recommend getting a dedicated case and PSU rather than a "package" because the bundled PSUs you get tend to be, well, crap. Antec make good cases, but are not so hot on the PSU. This PSU, althrough rated to 650 W, will be good with over 80% effiecency up to 800 W. They are really good PSUs.

There isn't much choice when it comes to BluRay readers, but I trust LG, hence the choice for that. And why go for a custom loop when you can get a sealed kit like the H50 that will give you very good performance and is still in your budget right now?

I know you asked for 1.5TB but there aren't many good performance drives of that size. 1.5TB drives tend to be storage drives, which makes them slow and blucky. I should know, I have 3x F2s in my rig.

Scan says the 5850 should be in stock within the next day or so, so you can safely ignore the "pre-order" for that one. I went for that particular UD3 for two reasons: I have experience with Gigabyte, and it was in stock. if someone can suggest a better board I'm all ears, I'm not to crash hot on the P55 scene just yet.

Looking at the U2410 I think that is a good moniter and should be worth your while, however if you wanna save a few quid, get a 2209. Same tech, but slightly smaller screen.

I haven't included fans and what not, but I am sure you can infer what is required pretty easily, if anything.

[Phage]

Defending Antec PSU - http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...tory4&reid=140
Do we really need a BluRay reader ? Seems a lot of money when software is still on DVD. Unless you're planning to watch movies, you could save £50 easily.

[nightkhaos]

Defending Antec PSU - http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...tory4&reid=140

Thanks for that. It seems they do make a fairly decent PSU after all. I still however stand by my Corsair recommendation.

[Phage]

Aye - Corsair are top quality.

[Cambion]

Wow, thanks for your time Mr Khaos. :-) (How do I 'thank' you in here?)

Re. the case I picked the P183 as it had a bunch of good reviews and is noted for being quiet. I also liked the style more then the 902. I picked the CP-850 as it seems to go naturally with that case (it is not ATX form factor so only fits in about 3 cases) and looked cheap for what it was. 850W seems overkill but then hopefully it won't need to spin its fan up much to stay cool during normal usage. (I can't post urls yet as I'm a newbie here.). I'll consider the Corsair though!

For the processor I don't really fancy the X58 platform and don't really want the extra 40 Watts to get rid of. Ignoring the ridiculously priced 870 that leaves the 860 and the 750. I thought with the 5850 in the system it would benefit from having a bit more processing power with the 860. If the I5 will cope ok with moderate overclocking I'll go with that but I assume the I7 860 will o/c better. (I don't really want to tweak the voltage much as I don't want too much power to dissipate.)

The choice of 1.5TB was rather arbitrary. I'll go with your pick; I think I might dump the SSD and rely on the Spinpoint as my main drive, waiting for prices to become sane. How loud is the drive? Is it worth me getting a silencer cage for it? (£35 for a box with some foam in it seems a fair amount...)

I notice the RAM is £30 more than the kit I picked out from Crucial. I'm fairly clueless about RAM. How is it superior to the cheaper stuff (in a noticeable way)?

I'll go for the LG blu-Ray. Thanks :-)

As for cooling I thought I'd stick with stock cooling until I sort out water cooling at a later date, (like a couple of months). I thought I'd stick with open loop as I will be WC for silence rather then performance and I'll need to put my graphics card in the loop. I also like playing around with things to get them to work and seeing as I have a number of components I can cannibalise from my current setup it made sense to me. Is this daft?

[Phage]

After a certain number of posts by a user, a 'thank you' button appears in the post.
How tight is your budget ? I don't see the advantage of the BluRay, I'd rather put the money towards a 5870 and possible the 860. But YMMV of course.

[nightkhaos]

Wow, thanks for your time Mr Khaos. :-) (How do I 'thank' you in here?

The wee thank button at the bottom of the post.

Re. the case I picked the P183 as it had a bunch of good reviews and is noted for being quiet. I also liked the style more then the 902. I picked the CP-850 as it seems to go naturally with that case (it is not ATX form factor so only fits in about 3 cases) and looked cheap for what it was. 850W seems overkill but then hopefully it won't need to spin its fan up much to stay cool during normal usage. (I can't post urls yet as I'm a newbie here.). I'll consider the Corsair though!

No problem. I chose the Antec cause you chose an Antec, and the Antec 900-2 is a popular case. To each is his (or her) own with the case.

For the processor I don't really fancy the X58 platform and don't really want the extra 40 Watts to get rid of. Ignoring the ridiculously priced 870 that leaves the 860 and the 750. I thought with the 5850 in the system it would benefit from having a bit more processing power with the 860. If the I5 will cope ok with moderate overclocking I'll go with that but I assume the I7 860 will o/c better. (I don't really want to tweak the voltage much as I don't want too much power to dissipate.)

The 750 is both cheaper than the 860 and of comparable performance when you don't consider the stock clock settings. The only real advantage of the 860 is HT. If you want an i7 you should get a 920, even through it burns an extra 40 watts extra it will overclock really well, and is worth the extra £86.57 you would need to spend to get it (yes, I once had to calculate exactly how much an i7 920 would cost compared to a i5 750. I am that sad. ). If you don't want the X58 plateform, you will be happy with the 750, and with the H50 attached you will get a very decent overclock.

The choice of 1.5TB was rather arbitrary. I'll go with your pick; I think I might dump the SSD and rely on the Spinpoint as my main drive, waiting for prices to become sane. How loud is the drive? Is it worth me getting a silencer cage for it? (£35 for a box with some foam in it seems a fair amount...)

That seems fair. If you're dumping the SSD then you will be putting a bit of load on the F3, so the £35 for a quiter system is worth it in my opionion. I, because of my large storage requirements, cannot actually afford the space to get silcence cases. Even with a full tower fitting 5 HDDs in is a bit of a strech. I also recommend, for cheaper, suspending the drives in a 5.25" bay. If only I could remember where I found that guide...

I notice the RAM is £30 more than the kit I picked out from Crucial. I'm fairly clueless about RAM. How is it superior to the cheaper stuff (in a noticeable way)?

RAM has two factors to consider, clock, and CAS latancy. The module I chose runs at 1600MHz, which is about optium, with CAS 8, which means it does a column operation every 8 cycles. (well it's a little more complicated than that, but for the sake of agruement that's all you really need to know).

I'll go for the LG blu-Ray. Thanks :-)

Hope it works for you. I don't have BluRay.

As for cooling I thought I'd stick with stock cooling until I sort out water cooling at a later date, (like a couple of months). I thought I'd stick with open loop as I will be WC for silence rather then performance and I'll need to put my graphics card in the loop. I also like playing around with things to get them to work and seeing as I have a number of components I can cannibalise from my current setup it made sense to me. Is this daft?

Then you're better of saving a bit of money and going for the Powercool version of the 5850. The one I chose has a non-stock fan and better cooling. It should be fairly quiet and with any luck you won't need to put it in the loop. I highly recommend the H50 because it does a fairly decent job considering. However, if you want to make a custom loop I can't stop you. However can I ask if you do that you post a build log? I like to see the water process, since I'm going to get into Watercooling soon.

[TREX_HUNTER]

HAHA, Well I'll be!! You are in exactly the same position as I was 2 weeks ago!!!

Luckily for you, I have done all the homework pretty much (for my system at least).

You might want to change the spec slightly as we might have different aims with our computers. Mine is primiarly for gaming followed by photography editing (however, I can not fault your Dell Ultrasharp in anyway )

You can check my specs on the left hand side, but for convienance, I am putting it here as well but sadly I cannot post the reviews URL because I am a new member so I will give you the title of the reviews.

Intel Core i7-860
The Lynnefield core is much better than the Bloomfield and the i7 -in particualr- made it difficult to justify a 1366 set-up. The HT added feature (which doesn't exist in the i5) make this future proof as I see it been capitalized on more and more. Even without o/c the QuickTurbo gives 166Hz x 5 boast, compared to only one or two multiplies in the old Bloomfield cores. For more on this check Tom hardwares review on the i5 vs i7 (Intel Core i5 And Core i7: Intel’s Mainstream Magnum Opus )

Motherboard: Giga-byte GA-P55-UD3
Tom hardware: P55 On A Budget: Five Core i5/i7 Motherboards For $100-$150
I am happy with Gigabyte since I have been using them for years now without any faults. This particular mobo got good reviews for o/c on Tom's Hardware, and I didn't see myself needing the extra ports (including the Firewire) you get on the P55-UD4 so it was no brainer.

RAM: Corsair (4x 2GB) PC-12800 (TW3X4G1600C9D)
I actually found this to be an overkill, leaving me with no upgradeibility options in the future. I think you are much better sticking to 4Gb now and upgrading later. having said that, the 8Gb will probably fulfill my needs for a loooong time to come.

Storage: 2x 1TB Cavier Black (RAID-0)
I too, was thinking of getting an SSD + Mechanical drive, but with the technology still developing very quickly and the prices of 1TB drives being very reasonable (coupled with my photography editing) made me opt for the larger storage solution. The cavier black is King when it comes to the 1TB territory (check the review on Tom's hardware: 1TB Evolves: New Drives, More Speed), but you mention that accoustics is important to you. The HDD is louder than its counterparts but the Cosmos Pure does an excellent job of sound sealing particuarly with the rubber stoppers.

Graphics: Sapphire HD 5870

PSU: Antec EarthWatt 750 Modular
The review for this PSU is found on Jonny Guru. The main concern for me was power consumptions and CrossFire certification and this baby meets both.

Case: Coolermaster Cosmos Pure (V2 RC-1000)
I was lucky to get that case on sale from Scan going for £120 on their Today's offers. I just love it! I read in reviews the cooling of the HDDs is a bit of an issue but as my PC is on tolerable accoustics wise, I didn't want to push its limits beyond that.

Monitor: HP LP2475W
TFT central is an excellent rescource for all your LCD reviews, and the HP fairs well in the 24" category, edging the Dell Ultrasharp U2410 in black depth and contrast ratio. The price is almost identical in both.

[Cambion]

No 'thanks' button for me yet...

My budget isn't that tight but I want to get good value for money; I don't really care about bragging rights or whether I get 163 fps or 172 fps...

I want a Blu-Ray reader as I would like to watch films on my PC and would like to make the most of my expensive monitor.

i5 750 it is! Cheers! (Wonder how much of the £80 is for the i7 label...)

Heh - I could suspend the drive using elastic bands... That would work...

re RAM
Looking at the crucial (I don't have any brand loyalty to them; just I had used them a long time ago) site £65 will get me:
1333 CL9 1.5V
1066 CL7 1.5V
£88 will get me:
1600 CL8-24 1.65V

With a moderate overclock (no overvoltage) which one would I need?

As for watercooling I've had no problems in several years of usage though I'm not an expert. I'll post what I do when I do it. One thing I would say as a physicist is that I can't see any point in getting a powerful pump. Due to water's high heat capacity as long as it is moving there will be only minor heating of the coolant while it is in contact with the block. Having a £50 pump rather than a £5 fish tank one would just add more heat into the system. I haven't actually done the sums though so I might be wrong. There are also a lot of myths about watercooling. There are a bunch of sites that I'll bring up when I can post URLs and remember to...

Greg

[nightkhaos]

You can check my specs on the left hand side, but for convienance, I am putting it here as well but sadly I cannot post the reviews URL because I am a new member so I will give you the title of the reviews.

I'm sure I could find said reviews. I have had to debunk them in the past few days. Part of the reason I'm gonna start my own review site. The jury is still out on the 860/920 debate in my head, but I lean towards the 920 for reasons like Triple Channel and better overclocking.

Intel Core i7-860
The Lynnefield core is much better than the Bloomfield and the i7 -in particualr- made it difficult to justify a 1366 set-up. The HT added feature (which doesn't exist in the i5) make this future proof as I see it been capitalized on more and more. Even without o/c the QuickTurbo gives 166Hz x 5 boast, compared to only one or two multiplies in the old Bloomfield cores. For more on this check Tom hardwares review on the i5 vs i7 (Intel Core i5 And Core i7: Intel’s Mainstream Magnum Opus )

The thing is when overclocking for stablity reasons you turn off the Turbo features. Thus all the gain you get from QuickTurbo is lost. If you were to leave them stock, clearly the 860 is better, but when overclocking, 920 all the way. I recommended the 750 because it avoids the whole 860/920 issue entirely, and fits the requirements of most people. I find very few people actually need HT, on a few occasions I've even been tempted to turn it off in my machine, but turning it back on for when I do need it means I've never bothered.

Motherboard: Giga-byte GA-P55-UD3
Tom hardware: P55 On A Budget: Five Core i5/i7 Motherboards For $100-$150
I am happy with Gigabyte since I have been using them for years now without any faults. This particular mobo got good reviews for o/c on Tom's Hardware, and I didn't see myself needing the extra ports (including the Firewire) you get on the P55-UD4 so it was no brainer.

Same boat as me. Gigabyte all the way!

RAM: Corsair (4x 2GB) PC-12800 (TW3X4G1600C9D)
I actually found this to be an overkill, leaving me with no upgradeibility options in the future. I think you are much better sticking to 4Gb now and upgrading later. having said that, the 8Gb will probably fulfill my needs for a loooong time to come.

The RAM I recommend was CAS 8. This RAM is CAS 9. Thus my RAM is slightly better.

Storage: 2x 1TB Cavier Black (RAID-0)
I too, was thinking of getting an SSD + Mechanical drive, but with the technology still developing very quickly and the prices of 1TB drives being very reasonable (coupled with my photography editing) made me opt for the larger storage solution. The cavier black is King when it comes to the 1TB territory (check the review on Tom's hardware: 1TB Evolves: New Drives, More Speed), but you mention that accoustics is important to you. The HDD is louder than its counterparts but the Cosmos Pure does an excellent job of sound sealing particuarly with the rubber stoppers.

Please don't suggest a RAID. I RAID, and I don't recommend it. There are myths that RAID makes your system faster, boot quicker... all you do is setup someone for disapointed when there system takes two minutes to boot and they only get a 20% performance gain over a single drive. I only RAID because I need it for extra large files on 0, and redundancy on 5.

Graphics: Sapphire HD 5870

Not worth the extra when compared to the 5850 imho, but this is a YMMV thing.

PSU: Antec EarthWatt 750 Modular
The review for this PSU is found on Jonny Guru. The main concern for me was power consumptions and CrossFire certification and this baby meets both.

Well the PSU I recommended is one of the best on the market, albeit a little on the expensive side, but believe me when I say it's worth every penny.

Case: Coolermaster Cosmos Pure (V2 RC-1000)
I was lucky to get that case on sale from Scan going for £120 on their Today's offers. I just love it! I read in reviews the cooling of the HDDs is a bit of an issue but as my PC is on tolerable accoustics wise, I didn't want to push its limits beyond that.

Cases are personal perferences, there are advantages and disavantages to all of them. He wants Antec, so we'll try and get him one that suits his tastes, mkay? I like the Cosmos as well, but I can't fault Antec cases.

Monitor: HP LP2475W
TFT central is an excellent rescource for all your LCD reviews, and the HP fairs well in the 24" category, edging the Dell Ultrasharp U2410 in black depth and contrast ratio. The price is almost identical in both.

Might be worth getting this instead for the man, can you provide linkage?

i5 750 it is! Cheers! (Wonder how much of the £80 is for the i7 label...)

Not much, remmeber that £80 was to change from the P55 to X58 as well.

Heh - I could suspend the drive using elastic bands... That would work...

Sorry about the lack of guide.

re RAM
Looking at the crucial (I don't have any brand loyalty to them; just I had used them a long time ago) site £65 will get me:
1333 CL9 1.5V
1066 CL7 1.5V
£88 will get me:
1600 CL8-24 1.65V

With a moderate overclock (no overvoltage) which one would I need?

1.65V is the maximum recommended voltage for a RAM module. There should be approximately 0.7 V difference between the Vcore and DRAM voltages maximum. This module, assuming no overvoltage, or even a slight undervoltage, will fit this requirements, it will also give you the best performance having the lowest time per memory operation.

As for watercooling I've had no problems in several years of usage though I'm not an expert. I'll post what I do when I do it. One thing I would say as a physicist is that I can't see any point in getting a powerful pump. Due to water's high heat capacity as long as it is moving there will be only minor heating of the coolant while it is in contact with the block. Having a £50 pump rather than a £5 fish tank one would just add more heat into the system. I haven't actually done the sums though so I might be wrong. There are also a lot of myths about watercooling. There are a bunch of sites that I'll bring up when I can post URLs and remember to...

I know, I'm an enginneer. Fluid and thermial dynamics are part of my course. But Myths are everywhere in the computer industry... maybe we should make the Mythbusters of computers YouTube stream or something. I would want to debunk RAID for one thing....

[TREX_HUNTER]

The thing is when overclocking for stablity reasons you turn off the Turbo features. Thus all the gain you get from QuickTurbo is lost. If you were to leave them stock, clearly the 860 is better, but when overclocking, 920 all the way. I recommended the 750 because it avoids the whole 860/920 issue entirely, and fits the requirements of most people. I find very few people actually need HT, on a few occasions I've even been tempted to turn it off in my machine, but turning it back on for when I do need it means I've never bothered

The reason I chose the i7-860 was exactly like you said, I am not o/c ing at moment (why bother with such spec), but I consider the idea later which the 860 cater for. Hyperthreading being future proof is all guessing at the moment.

Please don't suggest a RAID.

I am not I am recommending the Cavier Black; it so happened that I got 2 drives so I hooked them up RAID-0. Having said that, If Cambion is only going for a single 1TB, this is out of the question anyway.

Not worth the extra when compared to the 5850 imho, but this is a YMMV thing.

Hexus did their bang4bucks review comparing the 5870 and the 5850 and indeed you are right, 5850 is definetly worth more bang4buck, but its not all about bangs for bucks particuarly as upgradability was very high on my list. AnnandTech did an excellent review of the 5870 with a forward look into its future... it seems bright, but again, I can only go with these educated guesses.

Might be worth getting this instead for the man, can you provide linkage?

Go to TFT central review section, i think its the fourth monitor down

I should mention to Cambion that my set up was just over the £1.6K including P+P. If he's going with the i5 (which reviews do actually recommend over the i7-860, its just I feel HT might have a brighter future) and the 5850, he'll be saving plenty allowing him more leverage with the other components.

Good luck!

[nightkhaos]

I am not I am recommending the Cavier Black; it so happened that I got 2 drives so I hooked them up RAID-0. Having said that, If Cambion is only going for a single 1TB, this is out of the question anyway.

Ahh I see you just placed your system ver-batim.... I thought you were recommending this build.

Go to TFT central review section, i think its the fourth monitor down

I should mention to Cambion that my set up was only just over the £1.6K including P+P. If he's going with the i5 (which reviews do actually recommend over the i7-860, its just I feel HT might have a brighter future) and the 5850, he'll be saving plenty allowing him more leverage with the other components.

Good luck!

Ahh thank you very much, here is the review link. And here is a link from eBuyer to purchase it. Remember to add about £10 for extra shipping.

[Cambion]

Cheers people.

One quick question; do I need to remember to get SATA cables or will I get some with my drives?

Greg

[nightkhaos]

One quick question; do I need to remember to get SATA cables or will I get some with my drives?

You will get enough SATA cables with your Motherboard and PSU (for power).

[TREX_HUNTER]

The GA-P55-UD3 comes with 2 SATA2 cables.