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    Unhappy New i7 Rig, need advice

    Hey All

    Im kinda new to posting on Forums but would like some advice on a new system im going to build this week. Im planning on getting the following -
    Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 Intel X58
    Intel Core i7 920 D0 Stepping (SLBEJ) 2.66Ghz (Nehalem)
    Noctua NH-U12P SE2 Dual Fan

    The bit I need advice on is which type of RAM to get, im currently eyeing -
    OCZ Gold 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C8 (1600MHz)

    Is this the right choice? Any advice would be great.

    Many Thanks

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    ta2
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    Re: New i7 Rig, need advice

    I just bought my own next gen system, and I went for the i5 option. Basically I'm going to overclock, and I saw here.

    i5 750 - £145 delivered @ eBuyer
    Geil DDR3 4GB PC3-17000 (2133MHz) - £93 delivered @ OCUK
    Akasa Freedom Tower Cooler - £28 delivered @ Scan
    MSI P55-GD65 - £65 in the MSI promotion @ Scan (would have got Gigabyte GA-P55-US3L @ £87 otherwise)

    So that'd be £353 with the Gigabyte board. I think you'd be looking at £205 for the CPU, £130 for the mobo, and to be fair another £45 for another stick of RAM (but an extra 2GB) if you go for 1366. That's £151, nearly 45% more. I bet you won't get even 20% more performance out of an OC'd 920 than a OC'd 750. Not to mention the cost of the 920's increase power requirements.

    P.S. I strongly recommend the Akasa cooler instead of that £50-odd beast you're looking at. If you need two fans on a CPU cooler, then you should get a better case instead. I'm using an Antec 900 and I get nearly the same cooling (within 2C) whether the CPU fan is on max or off lol. Although atm I've got an E3200 @ 4GHz so it's only a 65W CPU/dualcore.

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    Re: New i7 Rig, need advice

    Not sure I agree with the above, but it is worth asking what your budget is and what are you planned uses are.

    BTW The noctua is a superior cooler, and go for the Patriot RAM on a 920. See my set up on the left. Also see this.

    http://forums.hexus.net/hexus-hardwa...7-920-rig.html
    Society's to blame,
    Or possibly Atari.

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    Re: New i7 Rig, need advice

    Quote Originally Posted by ta2 View Post
    I just bought my own next gen system, and I went for the i5 option. Basically I'm going to overclock, and I saw here.
    The Intel Core i5 (Lynnfield) is good, but the Core i7 (Bloomfield) is better. It has HT, and it can suck more juice because it has more pins, and finally, it's designed in such a way, or at least the D0 revision is, that you can undervolt it and it will still be stable, allowing for higher overclocks.

    Quote Originally Posted by ta2 View Post
    i5 750 - £145 delivered @ eBuyer
    Geil DDR3 4GB PC3-17000 (2133MHz) - £93 delivered @ OCUK
    Akasa Freedom Tower Cooler - £28 delivered @ Scan
    MSI P55-GD65 - £65 in the MSI promotion @ Scan (would have got Gigabyte GA-P55-US3L @ £87 otherwise)
    Good choices, you will be happy with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ta2 View Post
    So that'd be £353 with the Gigabyte board. I think you'd be looking at £205 for the CPU, £130 for the mobo, and to be fair another £45 for another stick of RAM (but an extra 2GB) if you go for 1366. That's £151, nearly 45% more. I bet you won't get even 20% more performance out of an OC'd 920 than a OC'd 750. Not to mention the cost of the 920's increase power requirements.
    You bet wrong. Unfortunately. You do get better performance out of the 920 D0. For one thing, the 920 D0 has HT, for another, it overclocks better. The increase in power requirements are just the price you pay for this performance increase, and believe me, it's worth the extra few quid in power per month.

    Quote Originally Posted by ta2 View Post
    P.S. I strongly recommend the Akasa cooler instead of that £50-odd beast you're looking at. If you need two fans on a CPU cooler, then you should get a better case instead. I'm using an Antec 900 and I get nearly the same cooling (within 2C) whether the CPU fan is on max or off lol. Although atm I've got an E3200 @ 4GHz so it's only a 65W CPU/dualcore.
    Clearly you have no understanding of thermal dynamics, a push pull, i.e. 2 fans, system on a heatsink will result in increased airflow. All cases will benefit from a dual fan setup on the primary heatsink, just some cases will allow you to push more out of the chip, but that's a given. I also beat when you OC you don't even aim for prime stable. Was that E3200 @ 4.0GHz prime stable? And further more what were your temps?

    Akasa make good coolers, but Noctua better ones in my opionion. Mainly because their fans are some of the best in the market.

    OP, ignore this person, he doesn't have much of a clue. Oh and yes, that RAM you picked is fine, althrough I also recommend Patriot.
    Desktop (Cy): Intel Core i7 920 D0 @ 3.6GHz, Prolimatech Megahalems, Gigabyte X58-UD5, Patriot Viper DDR3 6GiB @ 1440MHz 7-7-7-20 2T, EVGA NVIDIA GTX 295 Co-Op, Asus Xonar D2X, Hauppauge WinTV Nova TD-500, 2x WD Caviar Black 1TB in RAID 0, 4x Samsung EcoDrive 1.5TB F2s in RAID 5, Corsair HX 750W PSU, Coolermaster RC-1100 Cosmos Sport (Custom), 4x Noctua P12s, 6x Noctua S12Bs, Sony Optiarc DVD+/-RW, Windows 7 Professional Edition, Dell 2408WFP, Mirai 22" HDTV

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    i7 (Bloomfield) Overclocking Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock
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    Re: New i7 Rig, need advice

    Cripes. Don't you have a job to go to ?
    Society's to blame,
    Or possibly Atari.

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    Re: New i7 Rig, need advice

    I think he just tells it like it is, lol

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    Re: New i7 Rig, need advice

    Quote Originally Posted by spac3d View Post
    I think he just tells it like it is, lol
    Damn straight.
    Desktop (Cy): Intel Core i7 920 D0 @ 3.6GHz, Prolimatech Megahalems, Gigabyte X58-UD5, Patriot Viper DDR3 6GiB @ 1440MHz 7-7-7-20 2T, EVGA NVIDIA GTX 295 Co-Op, Asus Xonar D2X, Hauppauge WinTV Nova TD-500, 2x WD Caviar Black 1TB in RAID 0, 4x Samsung EcoDrive 1.5TB F2s in RAID 5, Corsair HX 750W PSU, Coolermaster RC-1100 Cosmos Sport (Custom), 4x Noctua P12s, 6x Noctua S12Bs, Sony Optiarc DVD+/-RW, Windows 7 Professional Edition, Dell 2408WFP, Mirai 22" HDTV

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    ta2
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    Re: New i7 Rig, need advice

    Quote Originally Posted by nightkhaos View Post
    The Intel Core i5 (Lynnfield) is good, but the Core i7 (Bloomfield) is better. It has HT, and it can suck more juice because it has more pins, and finally, it's designed in such a way, or at least the D0 revision is, that you can undervolt it and it will still be stable, allowing for higher overclocks.
    Quote Originally Posted by nightkhaos View Post
    You bet wrong. Unfortunately. You do get better performance out of the 920 D0. For one thing, the 920 D0 has HT, for another, it overclocks better. The increase in power requirements are just the price you pay for this performance increase, and believe me, it's worth the extra few quid in power per month.
    Didn't I say that you get better performance out of the 920? I just think it is a small performance increase compared to the price increase you're getting. Hyperthreading does't work if the CPU pipeline is already getting fully utilized by the thread which is running on that core and it obviously won't help if an application isn't properly multithreaded. Also I think 6GB of memory is a bit of a waste, though the triple channel bandwidth does give a nice improvement in some situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightkhaos View Post
    Clearly you have no understanding of thermal dynamics, a push pull, i.e. 2 fans, system on a heatsink will result in increased airflow. All cases will benefit from a dual fan setup on the primary heatsink, just some cases will allow you to push more out of the chip, but that's a given. I also beat when you OC you don't even aim for prime stable. Was that E3200 @ 4.0GHz prime stable? And further more what were your temps?
    Sure I do. I have a 900 case, which has 3x120mm intake (2 front, 1 side) and 1x120mm,1x200mm (top and back) outlet, as well as a 120mm on the CPU. Another 120mm on the CPU isn't gonna make much difference at all.

    And, yes it was prime stable, and yes it was within Intel spec voltage. Link.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightkhaos View Post
    Akasa make good coolers, but Noctua better ones in my opionion. Mainly because their fans are some of the best in the market.
    Maybe they do, but in my opinion they aren't twice as good, as the price would suggest. Also have a look here, specifically at the 150W temperatures. With a high wattage CPU you are gonna be limited by the case temperature rather than the flow of air across the heatsink. Hell, tower heatsinks dissipate the heat pretty well even passively.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightkhaos View Post
    OP, ignore this person, he doesn't have much of a clue. Oh and yes, that RAM you picked is fine, althrough I also recommend Patriot.
    Grow up.

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    ta2
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    Re: New i7 Rig, need advice

    P.S. Obviously the 920 system is gonna be better, but for an extra £150 it might be worth looking at whether you'd prefer a better GPU (or an extra one, 2x5850?), more storage, or more memory.

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    Re: New i7 Rig, need advice

    Hey all, the money is not a problem just wondering what the best RAM for it is.
    As for the use of this Rig its going to be mainly lots of Video Editing, Creation and Gaming, specifically lots of RTS's such as Supreme Commander.
    Oh plus I chose the Noctua NH-U12P SE2 Dual Fan for Quiet plus good cooling without going down the Water Cooling road.

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    Re: New i7 Rig, need advice

    The i5 is a good solution, and if I lost the box in a fire I may even buy one, but with video editing and beaucoup wonga...get a 920. (930 is due soon)
    Society's to blame,
    Or possibly Atari.

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    Re: New i7 Rig, need advice

    Quote Originally Posted by ta2 View Post
    Didn't I say that you get better performance out of the 920? I just think it is a small performance increase compared to the price increase you're getting. Hyperthreading does't work if the CPU pipeline is already getting fully utilized by the thread which is running on that core and it obviously won't help if an application isn't properly multithreaded. Also I think 6GB of memory is a bit of a waste, though the triple channel bandwidth does give a nice improvement in some situations.
    I am aware of the limitations of HT, but the thing is with my system, which I use every day, even when playing the most CPU intensive games, like SupCom, I never fully utilise a core. Also I think you'd find that HT has improved from the P4 days with load balancing which means if 8 threads are utilised to 100% they are only given 50% of the core to play with.

    6GiBs is not a bit of waste. It just means more of your data can be wired instead of sitting in the swap file, preventing you from switching applications quickly. And when those applications are games, well, you notice. Haven't you noticed that with a modest amount of RAM it can take 5 minutes to alt tab out of a game?

    Quote Originally Posted by ta2 View Post
    Sure I do. I have a 900 case, which has 3x120mm intake (2 front, 1 side) and 1x120mm,1x200mm (top and back) outlet, as well as a 120mm on the CPU. Another 120mm on the CPU isn't gonna make much difference at all.
    That's not the point. You are under the assumption that performance can scale linearly with price. It cannot. This is a well established fact, and doesn't just apply to computers. A second fan in pull mode will only add 10% - 20% extra airflow. But that 10% to 20% can be the difference between over-70 degrees and sub-70 degrees with the CPU core temps.

    Quote Originally Posted by ta2 View Post
    And, yes it was prime stable, and yes it was within Intel spec voltage. Link.
    I apologise. So I lost my bet. Consider myself humbled by your ability to get a stable 4GHz on that chip.

    Quote Originally Posted by ta2 View Post
    Maybe they do, but in my opinion they aren't twice as good, as the price would suggest. Also have a look here, specifically at the 150W temperatures. With a high wattage CPU you are gonna be limited by the case temperature rather than the flow of air across the heatsink. Hell, tower heatsinks dissipate the heat pretty well even passively.
    Ambient temperture is a problem with low wattage CPUs as well. To beat it you need sub-ambient refrigrating water cooled loops. And again, may I point about the non-linear relationship of prices?

    Quote Originally Posted by ta2 View Post
    Grow up.
    I'm sorry, but are you under the impression that my post was intended to be hostile? This is the way I write, and unfortunately, for reasons I can't fathom, I'm considered to post in a condecening manner at times. I really would like to apologise for this to everyone but let me point out a few things:

    1. I use complicated English words not to look all high and mighty and smarter than everyone else, but because I am dyslexic, and I often have trouble spelling little words. It's embrassing, so I avoid it with words I can remember. I don't know why the bigger words tend to be easier to remember than the little ones, but that's just the way my brain works.
    2. I don't like it when people make false assumptions, and try to be diplomatic but as I said, I'm dyslexic, so I don't know what is socially acceptable, and what is not. I apologise if I offend, but I also assume people know I mean it in good way, and not as an attack.
    3. Finally, I often contridict myself, or ask a question at the wrong point, which can confuse some people. I often find that I asked someone a question just after I contended a point they made in a similar area.

    For example I was actually asking about your tempertures because I was interested. I was actually wondering weather you made it prime stable. That's why I said "I bet you haven't" because the last Core 2 Duo that was overclocked within my friend group was not stable.

    Quote Originally Posted by ta2 View Post
    P.S. Obviously the 920 system is gonna be better, but for an extra £150 it might be worth looking at whether you'd prefer a better GPU (or an extra one, 2x5850?), more storage, or more memory.
    So far he hasn't posted anything about budget, so we can't know if he can't afford 2x5850 as well as his 920 setup, and we also don't know if he's buying the CPU, motherboard and RAM now, and then going to save up to buy a 300 series when they come up, using an old GPU in the mean time. I assume that he is quoting i7 Bloomfield because he can afford it.
    Desktop (Cy): Intel Core i7 920 D0 @ 3.6GHz, Prolimatech Megahalems, Gigabyte X58-UD5, Patriot Viper DDR3 6GiB @ 1440MHz 7-7-7-20 2T, EVGA NVIDIA GTX 295 Co-Op, Asus Xonar D2X, Hauppauge WinTV Nova TD-500, 2x WD Caviar Black 1TB in RAID 0, 4x Samsung EcoDrive 1.5TB F2s in RAID 5, Corsair HX 750W PSU, Coolermaster RC-1100 Cosmos Sport (Custom), 4x Noctua P12s, 6x Noctua S12Bs, Sony Optiarc DVD+/-RW, Windows 7 Professional Edition, Dell 2408WFP, Mirai 22" HDTV

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    i7 (Bloomfield) Overclocking Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock
    I am not our father.

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    Re: New i7 Rig, need advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Phage View Post
    The i5 is a good solution, and if I lost the box in a fire I may even buy one, but with video editing and beaucoup wonga...get a 920. (930 is due soon)
    All the processes, except the EE, seem to be pretty much exactly the same bar a different multiplier, and cost, of course.
    Desktop (Cy): Intel Core i7 920 D0 @ 3.6GHz, Prolimatech Megahalems, Gigabyte X58-UD5, Patriot Viper DDR3 6GiB @ 1440MHz 7-7-7-20 2T, EVGA NVIDIA GTX 295 Co-Op, Asus Xonar D2X, Hauppauge WinTV Nova TD-500, 2x WD Caviar Black 1TB in RAID 0, 4x Samsung EcoDrive 1.5TB F2s in RAID 5, Corsair HX 750W PSU, Coolermaster RC-1100 Cosmos Sport (Custom), 4x Noctua P12s, 6x Noctua S12Bs, Sony Optiarc DVD+/-RW, Windows 7 Professional Edition, Dell 2408WFP, Mirai 22" HDTV

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    i7 (Bloomfield) Overclocking Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock
    I am not our father.

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    ta2
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    Re: New i7 Rig, need advice

    You can see the difference between HT and no HT here on the turquoise and brown bars on the far right (i5 @ 4GHz, i7 860 @ 4GHz). Unfortunately the reviewer there is a bit retarded as he is benching CPUs, yet setting graphics settings in the games to max, thus causing the benches to be GPU limited. However, you can see that in most cases the HT does not make much difference. However... the i7 920 has triple channel memory and QPI instead of DMI.

    Everything is amount money. It is pointless to consider otherwise. It is also about your personal preferences. GPU vs CPU vs Storage. Noise vs Performance vs Price. For example you could go cheaper on the HSF by putting a single high RPM fan which would give as much or more airflow as two fans on low RPM. Then you'd be putting price ahead of noise. It also depends whether you're going to overclock. The i7 860 has much better turbo-mode than the 920, so if you're not overclocking it would be much better. If you are overclocking, you have to turn turbo mode off (so the 860 loses it's biggest advantage) and, the 860 goes from 2.8->4 (+40%) whereas the 920 goes from 2.66->4.2 (58%) fairly easily (all things equal).

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    Overclocking Since 1988 nightkhaos's Avatar
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    Re: New i7 Rig, need advice

    Quote Originally Posted by ta2 View Post
    You can see the difference between HT and no HT here on the turquoise and brown bars on the far right (i5 @ 4GHz, i7 860 @ 4GHz). Unfortunately the reviewer there is a bit retarded as he is benching CPUs, yet setting graphics settings in the games to max, thus causing the benches to be GPU limited. However, you can see that in most cases the HT does not make much difference. However... the i7 920 has triple channel memory and QPI instead of DMI.

    Everything is amount money. It is pointless to consider otherwise. It is also about your personal preferences. GPU vs CPU vs Storage. Noise vs Performance vs Price. For example you could go cheaper on the HSF by putting a single high RPM fan which would give as much or more airflow as two fans on low RPM. Then you'd be putting price ahead of noise. It also depends whether you're going to overclock. The i7 860 has much better turbo-mode than the 920, so if you're not overclocking it would be much better. If you are overclocking, you have to turn turbo mode off (so the 860 loses it's biggest advantage) and, the 860 goes from 2.8->4 (+40%) whereas the 920 goes from 2.66->4.2 (58%) fairly easily (all things equal).
    See, we do agree on some things. Everything you've said up there is completely valid, and I would say pretty much the same thing. I just disagree that considering only money is the way to go, after all, most people are willing to pay the extra, and it seems the FREEJAFFA is. So let's help him spend his hard earned money on extra speed, and silence, that he could possibly live without if he was pushed for cash instead of trying to save him money when he doesn't want to?

    Let's look at it this way, the orignal post: He has already decided on the cooler, the CPU, and the motherboard, now all he wants is advice on the RAM, to which he has picked a good value and highly respecitable 6GiB 1600MHz CL8 pack from OCZ, which is good, I'm sure you'll agree?

    Regarding the cooler, well, I think the Noctua is good enough, and again, he's willing to pay the extra even through it'll only perform slightly better than the Akasa you suggested. But knowing Noctua, it'll do it with less dB...
    Desktop (Cy): Intel Core i7 920 D0 @ 3.6GHz, Prolimatech Megahalems, Gigabyte X58-UD5, Patriot Viper DDR3 6GiB @ 1440MHz 7-7-7-20 2T, EVGA NVIDIA GTX 295 Co-Op, Asus Xonar D2X, Hauppauge WinTV Nova TD-500, 2x WD Caviar Black 1TB in RAID 0, 4x Samsung EcoDrive 1.5TB F2s in RAID 5, Corsair HX 750W PSU, Coolermaster RC-1100 Cosmos Sport (Custom), 4x Noctua P12s, 6x Noctua S12Bs, Sony Optiarc DVD+/-RW, Windows 7 Professional Edition, Dell 2408WFP, Mirai 22" HDTV

    MacBook Pro (Voyager): Intel Core 2 Duo @ 2.6GHz, 4GiB DDR2 RAM, 200GB 7200RPM HDD, NVIDIA 8600GTM 512MB, SuperDrive, Mac OS X Snow Leopard, 15.4" Matte Display

    HTPC (Delta-Flyer): Intel Core 2 Q8200 @ 2.33GHz, Zotec GeForce 9300-ITX, 2GiB of DDR2 Corsair XMS2 RAM, KWorld PE355-2T, Samsung EcoDrive F2 1.5TB, In-Win BP655, Noctua NF-R8, LiteOn BluRay ROM Drive, Windows 7 Home Premium, 42" Sony 1080p Television

    i7 (Bloomfield) Overclocking Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock
    I am not our father.

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    Re: New i7 Rig, need advice

    Quote Originally Posted by FREEJAFFA View Post
    Hey all, the money is not a problem just wondering what the best RAM for it is.
    As for the use of this Rig its going to be mainly lots of Video Editing, Creation and Gaming, specifically lots of RTS's such as Supreme Commander.
    Oh plus I chose the Noctua NH-U12P SE2 Dual Fan for Quiet plus good cooling without going down the Water Cooling road.
    Chaps
    Could use some advice fairly soon as im gonna need to order the components by tomorrow afternoon (UK Time)

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