overclock or upgrade?

[Crazy Fool]

I started a thread about replacing my AMD64 X2 5000 Black (2.6) with a AMD64 X2 6000 (3.0) as that is the highest CPU my ageing shuttle can take, but was advised to overclock what i have.

The question is where to start the overclock, i know what im doing with PC's and repair and so on all the time, but not ever tried overclocking for one reason or another, anyone wanna point me in the right place of where to start and what things to tweak first. Full Spec below

[Will404]

The first question is whether your current moutherboard in the shuttle allows for overclocking? If it does then I would give overclocking a go, and see if it meets your needs, or if not then consider the new CPU, although I do not think that there would be a huge difference from the CPU you listed.

As your current CPU is a "black" edition, it comes with an unlocked mulitplier, which means that overclocking it should be easy, but as I am not into AMD terminology, it may be easier if you look here:
http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/60...x2-5000-a.html

It basically says increase the multi to 15x

[Ulti]

Upgrading from an 5000+ to a 6000+ would mean 1mb more L2 Cache and 400mhz more clock speed. In my opinion I really don't think an upgrade like that would benefit you THAT much. However with double the L2 cache you might see your CPU act faster although the clock speed won't make much difference. However, if you manage to overclock it, the potential clock speed increase might benefit you more than the L2 cache from an upgrade but I'm not too sure on this.

Hope that helps.

[Crazy Fool]

first off thank you both for your input.

oh ok, im not sure what to do... this is the list of cpu's available to me and my little shuttle

http://uk.shuttle.com/support_list03.jsp?PI=883

what do you reckon?

[Kumagoro]

I think if you are noticing that you need more power then a bit faster chip isnt going to do much
for you. If you had a much lower spec CPU in the first place then it may be worth it but I think
its so close that its not.

Its seems on ebay the 6000 are about £50.

[scaryjim]

Sadly it looks like Shuttle don't intend to push out a BIOS update to allow use of AM3 processors with your motherboard (even though it's technically possible), so I'd try overclocking first, as upgrading the processor won't get you a more efficient architecture, just the same chip higher clocked (with perhaps a smidge more cache). If overclocking isn't possible on your motherboard or you can't get a stable overclock, then you can still upgrade the CPU and you've not wasted anything other than an evening or two

<snipped after reading manual>

EDIT: OK, having read the manual from the page you linked, it implies that you can't change the reference clock, but you can change the mutliplier (it's in the Advanced > CPU Features menu). So basically just tweak that up by 0.5 at a time then check the stability & temperatures of your computer (each 0.5 will boost your clock speed 100MHz).

[Crazy Fool]

Sadly it looks like Shuttle don't intend to push out a BIOS update to allow use of AM3 processors with your motherboard (even though it's technically possible), so I'd try overclocking first, as upgrading the processor won't get you a more efficient architecture, just the same chip higher clocked (with perhaps a smidge more cache). If overclocking isn't possible on your motherboard or you can't get a stable overclock, then you can still upgrade the CPU and you've not wasted anything other than an evening or two

<snipped after reading manual>

EDIT: OK, having read the manual from the page you linked, it implies that you can't change the reference clock, but you can change the mutliplier (it's in the Advanced > CPU Features menu). So basically just tweak that up by 0.5 at a time then check the stability & temperatures of your computer (each 0.5 will boost your clock speed 100MHz).

thanks for looking at that for me, very kind of you!

yeah i doubt they will change the bios settings now... most shuttle owners are repeat offenders and go and buy another one anyway lol

i will get overclocking when i get in!

[Pob255]

Hard drive sata or ide? it could be that that's actually making it feel unresponsive.

Also check your OS, keeping you os clean and not bogged down with loads of carp running in the background helps allot.
Also run full anti-virus/malware scans can have a major impact on performance (also clunky antivirus software itself can be bad)

Basically what I'm saying here it that an x2 5000+ BE shouldn't really feel that slow in the first place.

[Crazy Fool]

Hard drive sata or ide? it could be that that's actually making it feel unresponsive.

Also check your OS, keeping you os clean and not bogged down with loads of carp running in the background helps allot.
Also run full anti-virus/malware scans can have a major impact on performance (also clunky antivirus software itself can be bad)

Basically what I'm saying here it that an x2 5000+ BE shouldn't really feel that slow in the first place.

indeed, i keep my default startup items down to a minium, running win7 pro on a sata drive. nod32 installed and keep the pc clean, i think the issue is i just purchased a sweet dell laptop with a i7 cpu

just wanted to see if i could improve my system. My windows scores are all around 6.8 apart from my cpu (5.5)

just playing around with the overclock now

[Crazy Fool]

ps..

should cpuz be jumping around with the cpu speed?

ok just trying my first overclock... and cpuz is reading this mainly but jumps a little.. what have a i done wrong!



the cpu says 2315 but half jumps between 1000 and 2400

[Ulti]

I'm not too sure about OCing AMD processors but I'll take a stab in the dark and guess that it's due to "Cool 'n' quiet Technology" but don't take my word for it.

[Crazy Fool]

a friend mentioned that is that maybe to do with the voltage being set to auto? i just changed it to 1.3 and seems more stable in the jumping!

[Will404]

cool 'n' quiet is a power saving feature which reduces the clock rate, and voltage, vus meaning less energy is used and less heat made so fans slow down. Adjusting voltage may have dissabled it, but I would dissable it in BIOS anyway, as otherwise it could cause instabibilty when you get to faster speeds.

With the voltage, you want it as low as possible remaining stable, so when you get to a speed your happy with reduce it (1.25 is what I would recommend), run a program like Orthos, (monitor tempratures at the same time), and see if it is stable (different people suggest different times, I would say 1-3hrs is stable depending on how patient you are). Then if it passes reduce the vots again until it fails, then go midway between the point it passed on and the one it failed on, and test, repeating this until you have got it resonably close

EDIT: it may also be worth setting the RAM timeings, votage and speed manually, but that is just cos I like to do this. Also how much RAM do you have, as this could explain why it is being soo sluggish??

[Pob255]

My guess would be Coll'n'quiet it reduces clock rate when there's no load, simular to the intel EIST

I didn't realise they made i7 laptops yet, but yes going from high spec to low spec will show the difference more.

Also worth looking at the ram as it has more effect on AMD & i5/i7 than it did on pre-i5/i7 intel systems

[Crazy Fool]

My guess would be Coll'n'quiet it reduces clock rate when there's no load, simular to the intel EIST

I didn't realise they made i7 laptops yet, but yes going from high spec to low spec will show the difference more.

Also worth looking at the ram as it has more effect on AMD & i5/i7 than it did on pre-i5/i7 intel systems

indeed. Dell have a studio 15 i7 currently with 30% off and if you use quidco (UK) and then a discount code you can pick one up for £650! very fast machine!

back on topic, i can't see where you turn off coll'n'quiet ?

[Crazy Fool]

found it!! it was in power options! i was on balanced duh!!