Optical Storage Comparison

[jim]

Yes, but then compare the time taken stuffing those DVDs into the writer, labelling them, storing them etc etc. You could go for LTO2 - cheaper tapes, drives about half the price, but then using around 10 to 15 tapes.

And if you are planning to keep off site backups as well then LTO4 starts making more sense - but it depends on how valuable/replacebale the data is, and the level of convenience in both storing and retrieving it.

Point taken. I suppose LTO2 wouldn't actually be that bad an approach - since a lot of the data doesn't change, doing a few extra tapes wouldn't be that much effort. Will factor tapes in next time I look at this, see how they stack up.

£1400 would definitely be prohibitively expensive, but if there's a cheaper option then maybe.

But the whole point of backing up is because hard drives are elctro mechanical devices - prone to failure - so why back up from one (relatively) unreliable and fragile (don't drop it) device to another?

Exactly. I already have everything backed up onto hard disk (and will probably get a second set of disks in a few months, so that everything's replicated 3 times), but the whole reason for this is that I don't like using disks as a storage medium. I really don't trust them!

[jim]

Update 2:

12/09: 650 DVDs @ £21 for a 100 pack - £140 - 5p/gig
07/10: 650 DVDs @ £17 for a 100 pack - £110 - 4p/gig
12/09: 360 DL-DVDs @ £25 for a 25 pack - £360 - 12p/gig
07/10: 360 DL-DVDs @ £22 for a 25 pack - £315 - 10p/gig
12/10: 360 DL-DVDs @ £18 for a 25 pack - £260 - 9p/gig
12/09: 120 25GB BD-Rs @ £110 for a 25 pack - £520 - 17p/gig
12/10: 120 25GB BD-Rs @ £100 for a 25 pack - £480 - 16p/gig
12/09: 60 50GB BD-Rs @ £220 for a 25 pack - £520 - 17p/gig
12/10: 60 50GB BD-Rs @ £185 for a 25 pack - £445 - 15p/gig

Or

12/09: 2 HD154UIs @ £75 each - £150 - 5p/gig
07/10: 2 HD154UIs @ £60 each - £120 - 4p/gig
12/10: 2 HD153WIs @ £52 each - £104 - 3p/gig
12/09: 19 Intel 160GB SSDs @ £340 each - £6460 - £2.15/gig
12/10: 19 Intel 160GB SSDs @ £290 each - £5510 - £1.85/gig

DVDs haven't budged, maybe they've hit the lowest they ever will?

In other news, everything else is a smidge cheaper, but with hard disks still outpacing optical storage on the price-dropping front, I suspect it's a long time before they could be a viable backup option.

If you consider HDDs to be a fairly dodgy storage method, then given the sums so far you could get five sets of HDD backups for the same price as one set of 50GB blu-rays, and it would still take you less time to make the backup I suspect.

On that basis you could probably defend yourself against fire, theft and nuclear war.

[watercooled]

I wouldn't consider any more than about 10 ODs to be a viable option for a few reasons - 1. unless you have some sort of auto-changer, backing up to that many discs would be incredibly tedious. 2. for a backup, you're counting on the discs to be completely reliable and I really can't see restoring from over a hundred discs going smoothly without any errors. Of course, you could create two copies of everything or use some form of parity but that means more discs, more time and more expenditure. 3. The prices listed are for write-once discs so while the cost of HDDs is one-off, you'd have to factor in the cost of buying new ODs every time you wanted to backup so even with similar initial prices, ODs would work out waaay more expensive than reusable HDD or tape backup. And it's not really worth considering RW media because of the relatively poor cost and speed.
So, until we see ODs with a TB or so storage per disc with reasonable cost, speed and reliability, I don't see ODs as a viable backup solution for anything more than a few GB of data.

[mikerr]

So, until we see ODs with a TB or so storage per disc with reasonable cost, speed and reliability,

Tape media is far more reliable than disk, but that initial cost of the drive means tape drives are only now suitable to businesses.

I don't see ODs as a viable backup solution for anything more than a few GB of data.

Other way around - tape drives are only viable for larger volumes.

CERN has about 50PBs (50,000 TB) of tape storage and 20PBs worth of disk storage.



http://highscalability.com/blog/2010...tabyte-of.html

[jim]

Tape media is far more reliable than disk, but that initial cost of the drive means tape drives are only now suitable to businesses.


Other way around - tape drives are only viable for larger volumes.

CERN has about 50PBs (50,000 TB) of tape storage and 20PBs worth of disk storage.



http://highscalability.com/blog/2010...tabyte-of.html

Sorry? He's talking about Optical discs - blu-rays, DVDs, etc. Tape has never really come into the equation of this analysis, mainly because I can't afford the initial costs of a tape system.

[neonplanet40]

I find blu-ray prices to be a complete joke. You also have to add in the price of the writers as well?

I thought blu-rays would have been much cheaper by now but it doesnt seem to be!

[Funkstar]

They just don't have the market penetration what DVD-R has, and probably never will IMHO.

I don't think we'll see another great optical format, not unless something holographic comes out in the next few years, and that isn't looking likely.

[watercooled]

They just don't have the market penetration what DVD-R has, and probably never will IMHO.

I don't think we'll see another great optical format, not unless something holographic comes out in the next few years, and that isn't looking likely.

My thoughts exactly.

[jim]

Update 3:

12/09: 650 DVDs @ £21 for a 100 pack - £140 - 5p/gig
07/10: 650 DVDs @ £17 for a 100 pack - £110 - 4p/gig
01/12: 650 DVDs @ £21 for a £100 pack - £140 - 5p/gig

12/09: 360 DL-DVDs @ £25 for a 25 pack - £360 - 12p/gig
07/10: 360 DL-DVDs @ £22 for a 25 pack - £315 - 10p/gig
12/10: 360 DL-DVDs @ £18 for a 25 pack - £260 - 9p/gig
01/12: 360 DL-DVDs @ £22 for a 25 pack - £315 - 10p/gig

12/09: 120 25GB BD-Rs @ £110 for a 25 pack - £520 - 17p/gig
12/10: 120 25GB BD-Rs @ £100 for a 25 pack - £480 - 16p/gig
01/12: 120 25GB BD-Rs @ £83 for a 25 pack - £400 - 13p/gig

12/09: 60 50GB BD-Rs @ £220 for a 25 pack - £520 - 17p/gig
12/10: 60 50GB BD-Rs @ £185 for a 25 pack - £445 - 15p/gig
01/12: 60 50GB BD-Rs @ £185 for a 25 pack - £445 - 15p/gig

Or

12/09: 2 HD154UIs @ £75 each - £150 - 5p/gig
07/10: 2 HD154UIs @ £60 each - £120 - 4p/gig
12/10: 2 HD153WIs @ £52 each - £104 - 3p/gig
01/12: 1 Deskstar 5K3000 @ £155 each - £155 - 5p/gig

12/09: 19 Intel 160GB SSDs @ £340 each - £6460 - £2.15/gig
12/10: 19 Intel 160GB SSDs @ £290 each - £5510 - £1.85/gig
01/12: 12 Intel 250GB SSDs @ £395 each - £4740 - £1.58/gig


So DVDs have risen a bit, blu-rays have dropped a bit, HDDs have risen a bit, and SSDs have dropped a bit. And we're still no closer to a solution

[neonplanet40]

Blu ray prices are ridiculous. I really expected them to be cheaper by now. seems it is another few years off before they become 10 for £10.

EDIT: Ha just realised I made a similar post before xmas sorry

[jim]

Blu ray prices are ridiculous. I really expected them to be cheaper by now. seems it is another few years off before they become 10 for £10.

EDIT: Ha just realised I made a similar post before xmas sorry

To be fair, it was over a year ago so you'd have done well to remember! I am incredibly disappointed tbh, SSDs seem to be outstripping them on the price drop front. It's pretty pathetic.

Had it not been for the Thai floods, it would look even worse than it does.

[neonplanet40]

I think for blu ray to take off it needs to be cheaper. And as it hasn't really changed that much I can see it dying in the water if something new is just around the corner.

[Biscuit]

this guy does 20 packs of blu ray 25GB disks for £16.50, and numerous other decent deals. Brings the cost just about in line with how much hard drives used to be doesnt it?

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/3000rpmtheh...Desc=1&_nkw=BD

[jim]

this guy does 20 packs of blu ray 25GB disks for £16.50, and numerous other decent deals. Brings the cost just about in line with how much hard drives used to be doesnt it?

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/3000rpmtheh...Desc=1&_nkw=BD

Off the top of my head, yeah it would do. If the disks are reliable then that's a pretty good deal.

[Biscuit]

they probably arent the best in the world, you get what you pay for afterall!

Im gunna get some and try them out so i will let you know if i encounter any issues. A lot of the issues i had with my current BD-Rs has been with the software rather than the disks though. Imgburn seems to be the best free piece of software around.
Im in the midst of a pretty hefty (3.5TB) backup session at the moment and i decided to go for optical disk. Also need to get a decent box/case for all of them.

[watercooled]

I agree, I went to look for BD drive/discs for archival storage and expected them to be down to less than DVD £/GB by now! I don't remember DVDs being so incredibly expensive for so long!