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Thread: Need a low cost server... suggestions

  1. #17
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    Re: Looking for a low cost server..

    Whups i gave you a US outlet link

    http://ireland.dell.com/uk/en/dfo/df...refid=df&s=dfo there you are

    Theres not much on there but if your in no rush i might be worth keeping an eye on it

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    Re: Looking for a low cost server..

    Quote Originally Posted by [GSV]Trig View Post
    Looking for 12Gb RAM.
    CPU's not hugely important.
    Drive wise it needs two arrays, mirrored for OS and then another array for SQL, preferably on an actual card not chipset pretend RAID..

    Will be running SBS2008 Standard x64 and SQL Server 2008 Standard Edition..
    Couple of questions before I dive into a spec (although I've a nice P233 server here you can have for £20, therefore its cheap and I knows everyfink about server what nots.....)

    How many users are you looking at dropping on the box? Got a rough Idea of how much mail you take a day? Is your antispam cloud based or are you going to be leveraging exchanges built in stuff? Is the box going to be doing any "other" SBS style duties (thinking mainly here of file server duites for main Data / User Docs).

    I'd guess you're doing SBS premium (and therefore SQL installed as part of the build) or perhaps you're going take advantage of the virtualisation licence and go with a virtualised SQL instance?

    My main worry would on a low spec box would be drive throughput.... Glad to see you're already thinking "proper" raid I'd happily sacrifice CPU speed for drive performance.

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    Re: Looking for a low cost server..

    4 users, SQL only, single box so no premium, theres already another box that does DC/Exchange, this is purely for the SQL stuff..

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    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for a low cost server..

    Only 4 users? Seriously? What size are that databases? I'm a little surprised you're talking 12GB - that sounds like a relatively low load...

    Would you be willing to buy the server then add extra drives / controllers? If so a Poweredge T105 might be an option - currently on offer, and can be specced with either Athlon X2 or Opteron Quadcore processors, up to 8GB and a SAS 6/ir RAID card + two drives: you could then either add additional drives to the 6/ir or add a second raid controller.

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    Re: Looking for a low cost server..

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    Only 4 users? Seriously? What size are that databases? I'm a little surprised you're talking 12GB - that sounds like a relatively low load...

    Would you be willing to buy the server then add extra drives / controllers? If so a Poweredge T105 might be an option - currently on offer, and can be specced with either Athlon X2 or Opteron Quadcore processors, up to 8GB and a SAS 6/ir RAID card + two drives: you could then either add additional drives to the 6/ir or add a second raid controller.
    It is low load, the db guys say minimum of 8gb so 12gb's the next step up...
    Its a pretty simple system for invoices/sales stuff, its aimed at bigger businesses but the guys using it have used it previously so want to move to that from Sage...

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    Re: Looking for a low cost server..

    WTF, just checking out exlax's other posts and here he is again pimping the same ebuyer i3 rig...
    http://forums.hexus.net/current-barg...ml#post1876143

    Does he make them in his bedroom or sometihng and sell them to ebuyer?

  7. #23
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    Re: Looking for a low cost server..

    Trig remind me again why you didn't go for an ML115 ? I'm guessing that it won't take enough RAM ?
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    Re: Looking for a low cost server..

    Hang on a second......

    Something aint right here, 12 gig server for 4 users, unless the data set is huge how on earth are you specing this?

    Or maybe (as usual) db guys cant be bothered to do their job properly? Remember that is you go back 10 years, people were running huge multi gigabyte databases on pentium pros with <1gb of ram. Serving 100's or even 1000's of users in the process.

    Why does a little small project need this? Get them to get the dataset correct first, dont just throow money at the problem.

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    Re: Need a low cost server... suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by [GSV]Trig View Post
    Looks like its a go on the ML360 G6 box with 12Gb ram and 4x250gb SATA drives at the mo, just trying to decide if I should stick SBS2008 on there and bin the old server or stick 2008 Standard on there and keep the SQL stuff seperate. I'd like to get it all on one box, after all its a small company with 4 people there but, Exchange and SQL on the same box..
    Well, for 4 users, your not really going to be pushing huge IOPS, so the 360 sounds like a viable option. If you plump for Premium SBS you get a seperate copy of 2008+SQL, so a nice cash saving there.

    You could look at virtualising the whole shooting match; I've done something similar for a 10 User SBS firm. As long as you've no oddball requests (fax card intergration is the main one that springs to mind), throw a copy of Hyper-V on the server, then have SBS and SQL virtualised on the box. The advantage of doing it is that should the company suddenly take on 20 more staff and strain the box, its a damn sight easier to migrate their solution to more powerfull hardware.

    However, the disadvantage of the current box would be it's tight on Ram; 1gb for Hyper-V, leaves you 11gb to split between SBS and SQL; You can just about get SBS running with 4GB, but by god, it's painfull.

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    Re: Need a low cost server... suggestions

    Problem is that its not just running SQL - SBS2008 has exchange as well , both are quite memory hungry.

    Personally I think its some major ass covering by the vendor and that memory really wont make a huge ammount of difference - the I/O portion would be more critical but we're not putting together a solution that has time to be tweaked and tested to peak efficiency.

    Yes it's a sledgehammer to crack a walnut , but by getting a system in now that "should" last a good few years you're reducing the admin overhead and OpEX by spending a little more CapEX

    over a servers life time , the hardware cost is relatively insignificant compared with the cost to maintain it.
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    Re: Need a low cost server... suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Moby-Dick View Post

    over a servers life time , the hardware cost is relatively insignificant compared with the cost to maintain it.
    Yes, but hardware costs are logarithmic when support/design costs are linear.

    Hence it's always better to spend a little more time, speccing at the start. As you grow, you dont want to redesign.

    The problem here is that most IT bods dont have the skillset, but say they do Especailly true of DBAs who usual answer is 'buy more memory'.

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    Re: Need a low cost server... suggestions

    I'm a former DBA , watch it

    My battle is the reverse that the moment , I run a large Virtual Estate and my battle is to get application teams to rightsize their VM requests so we don't end up with a lot of wasted RAM ( 12 Gb is nothing when you've got 256Gb on the host )

    Getting the right price point for a given spec ( eg choosing memory that has the best cost/gb - idon't buy 8GB DIMM's at the moment , if you have the slots , go for 4Gb) certainly helps - the worst problem is when lazy app vendors insit on a massive spec because they don't want to get drawn into arguments about the hardware.
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    Re: Need a low cost server... suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Moby-Dick View Post
    I'm a former DBA , watch it

    My battle is the reverse that the moment , I run a large Virtual Estate and my battle is to get application teams to rightsize their VM requests so we don't end up with a lot of wasted RAM ( 12 Gb is nothing when you've got 256Gb on the host )

    Getting the right price point for a given spec ( eg choosing memory that has the best cost/gb - idon't buy 8GB DIMM's at the moment , if you have the slots , go for 4Gb) certainly helps - the worst problem is when lazy app vendors insit on a massive spec because they don't want to get drawn into arguments about the hardware.
    Interesting point!

    Specification != performace, but management often beleive it is so.

    Maybe it's time to play the 'green' card?

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    Re: Need a low cost server... suggestions

    The ML115 only supports 8gb, the DB guys have said that its 8gb minimum hence my going for 12gb, possibly my bad but havent dealt with the SQL stuff there putting on it so would rather not just hit the minimum spec but go over it a bit now while the budget is there.

    SBS2008 Premium wants two machines.

    At the mo they have an SBS2008 machine with 5gb RAM on it that runs Sage and Exchange etc, with the new box Sage will go on that lifting a bit more off of the old server, at most I might max the RAM out on it..

    Now, the only thing I'm thinking about at the mo is sticking SBS2008 on the new box and moving the Exchange stuff over at some point in the future, just depends how much the old server will crap itself if I stick another SBS server on the network..

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    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
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    Re: Need a low cost server... suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by abaxas View Post
    ... Or maybe (as usual) db guys cant be bothered to do their job properly? ...
    I was going to agree heartily with this...
    Quote Originally Posted by Moby-Dick View Post
    I'm a former DBA , watch it
    But maybe I won't

    tbh, if you've got the budget for it there's no good reason not to get 12GB, or even 16GB. I'm just used to operating in an academic setting where everything comes out of a research budget and once it's gone it's gone until we manage to win another research funding bid! When you've got two of the most eminent academics in their field being precious about their grants you tend to get very good at balancing performance and cost...

  16. #32
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    Re: Need a low cost server... suggestions

    I tihnk 12 will do for now, only decision now is the OS, 2008 Standard and keep it as a seperate box or SBS2008 and moev Exchange off of the old box at a later date.

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