noob Q: OC P4C - how hard is it really?

[shredisn@tdead]

I've decided I've just got to get me a 1000Mhz FSB rig like on THG
http://www.tomshardware.com/motherbo...812/index.html

BUT I'm an OC noob - only ever tried on OCing an 1800+ Palomino in a Soltek SL-75DRV...
which proved to be an unbelievably FRUSTRATING experience...

So, how hard is it to get say a P4C 2.8 stable cranked up that high?

I've read reviews that imply it's a doddle, just cranking up the FSB with no or minor vcore changes on 1:1 bus:memory... Are there other things you need to play with??

I'm thinking of clobbering my credit card for:

• P4C 2.8,
  Asus P4P800,
  OCZ gold PC4000 512mb kit,
  Zalman CNPS7000-Cu fan,
  and a Vantec iON 400 PSU

I've already got a decent Coolermaster case for that lot - which the bloody 1800- is sitting in.

Am I just setting myself up for another round of frustration???

[fondie]

if you were to do that, it would be running at 3.5Ghz, it is possible you could manage this with a Zalman CNPS7000-Cu, but i suggest you set your sights a little lower as something you should expect to get as a minimum, i'd suggest running at 3.2-3.4 should be easily attainable, which will still be very fast, and then push further for 3.5Ghz! as you said just crank up the fsb and vcore, very easy, and there are lots of people on these forums who will help you out with any questions.

[fondie]

http://discuss.futuremark.com/forum/...=1#Post2596486

and that's with the Al/Cu version of the Zalman

[shredisn@tdead]

Cheers fondie, just the sort of answers I was hoping for!
I was thinking of doing it with a 2.6 like they do on THG, but hey, why limit yourself? And WOW 3.6 is just awesome!

I've seem some high 3.5+ Mhz on the CPU tables for P4s with the Cu Zalman on overclockers.com, so who knows, I might get lucky too. But I do really want to avoid the old jet powered PC problem, hence quiet CPU cooler and PSU.

Figure I can then go for higher CFMs on the box intakes to get some cool air in there - unless the ambient in the room is 30C again like we just had...

I'm thinking of "investing" in the kit in 2-3 wks so I can keep reading up and decide what parts to get (was going to go with the MSI Neo2 board but recently switched to the Asus!)

Anyone know of any decent P4 OC guides out there??

[fondie]

it really is as simple as cranking up the fsb, with PC4000 memory you shouldn't really have any problems with the memory at least until 250mhz fsb, although OCZ memory wouldn't be my first choice. if you find any kind of instability, increase the vcore a little and try again. use programs such as prime95/toast/pifast to check stability. exact procedure depends on your motherboard BIOS, check out the reviews of the motherboard, hopefully should have some BIOS screens there, should be reasonably self evident.

I think the 2.8C is a good choice, as the price difference between the 2.4, 2.6 and 2.8 isn't that great and the higher multiplier on the 2.8 allows for greater speeds without crazy fsb speeds. I presume you've checked out the Abit IC7 series motherboards, and the IC7-Max3 should hopefully be available soon, it looks to be a promising board.

i remember the days when i had a globalwin fop38 with a 7k rpm delta fan in my system, couldn't stand to go back to that now, got a volano 11+ set v.low and is still a bit too noisy for me really, there is suppose to be a Zalman CNPS-7000 Cu coming for socket A chips so when that arrives i may well invest in one of those.

[Austin]

Well P4C 800FSB 2.6ghz HT is really what you want but do rem that there is NEVER any guarntees of how an o/c will go, esp on P4 where you're more limited thanks to the locked multiplier. The 2.6ghz is more flexible as you stand a much better chance of hitting your desired 1000FSB with 13x250=3.25ghz ... the CPU should not become the limiting factor in attaining the 1000FSB that way and you'd easily be a good deal faster than the true King 3.2ghz 800FSB which is unlikely to o/c that well and certainly no hope of 1000FSB. Rem if you do add more voltage that this puts a very seriousl strain on the CPU and produces a LOT more heat, be careful esp as the CPU is quite pricey in the first place. There are plenty of good P4 coolers, take your pick.

The next important factor to achieving 1000FSB is the RAM. DDR400-PC3200 is the fastest official spec and anything above this and you're trusting a lot to the RAM manu's claims .... often it's little more than DDR400 with added voltage which you can do yourself. I'm dubious of OCZ RAM myself but others seem to have got on fine, if you want top perf and don't want your RAM to hold you back from 1:1 1000FSB then I'd say Corsair is tops. DDR500-PC4000 is what you need but is very rare and expensive, heck even PC3700 is! From what I hear the perf hit is not that big when running FSB and RAM async perhaps thanks to the i865/875 (Spring/Cant) and Dual CHannel DDR. So long as you stay close to at least DDR400-PC3200 speeds. 2x256MB is more than most people need, 2x512MB adds a lot to the price esp for the faster rated or better brand RAM. Asus make good mobos but rem chipset is the key issue and I'd stick with Intel myself.

I'd go Antec or Enermax for the PSU myself but Vantec should be very good and 400W is certainly generous (which is what you want). Rem if this rig is for gaming the gfx card is THE most important part so a Rad9600pro though a good card is going to yield slower gaming perf with P4 3.25ghz 1000FSB PC4000 vs P4 2.8ghz 800FSB PC3200 and a Rad9700 (or pref better). Also consider how much cash you're throwing at the o/c and what awesome perf you get stock and do rem you're primarily trusting to luck for the most poart too!

[d_fresh1]

wouldnt u need a active cooler on the NB to achieve high fsbs...the IC7-G would be the best bet right?

[shredisn@tdead]

There is that, the Asus is passive on the NB, which is another plus in my eyes, or should that be ears...

Not sure of the reputation of the site (looks good to me ), but there's a good roundup here:
http://www.hothardware.com/hh_files/...showdown.shtml

As for the RAM, I can't seem to find a PC4000 512Mb Corsair kit anywhere, maybe they'll bring one out soon before I take the plunge. I'd read the OCZ was good though, and kept tight timings so was marginally faster than the Corsair (1Gb kits tested). Are OCZ generally unfavoured and Corsair is the preferred supplied???

PSU - I've actually got a 350W from QuietPC.com, made by Q-Technology I think. Was considering re-using it but I guess it'd be best to get something that should provide some ultra stable rails for this project.

The box is mainly going to be for - surprise surprise - distributed computing, so really should pass the Prime95 torture tests. I wish I had more frag time - saying I'm average in UT2003 is an overstatement! So ultimate gfx isn't an issue but I do have a 9500pro which is still pretty useful

[fondie]

i'd imagine your QuietPC 350W PSU will be just fine, as long as you don't have loads of disk drives, i believe they good good reviews, and they are certainly priced as premium quality PSUs.

OCZ have a rather shady history wihch is why some people are wary of them (including myself), but review sites and consumers have generally been getting good results with them, and they do tend to be cheaper than other 'premium branded' manufacturers!

the passively cooled NB on the Asus board should be fine for 250fsb, you can always put a Zalman NB heatsink onto a board which has an active NB cooler though.

There are a number of manufacturers making PC4000 at the moment, including OCZ, Kingston (HyperX branded), Corsair, GeiL. Although i'm not sure about the availability of GeiL (looks to have the best specification) and Kingston PC4000 (have some very nice overclocking sticks at lower speeds, PC3000, PC3500) at the moment. Corsair's product page do show a 512mb PC4000 kit but it doesn't appear at scan.co.uk, one of their big distributers in the UK. Corsair have a very good track record for good customer service, returning faulty sticks or sticks that don't quite meet their specifications with replacements etc which is why lots of people rate them highly, although i wouldn't say they are necessarily any better than manufacturerssuch as Mushkin (who don't have PC4000 out at the moment unfortunately).

[shredisn@tdead]

Hmmm.... I guess I'm maybe playing safe with the PSU. With my Palomino experience I realized there was really no telling what was going on
That PSU wasn't cheap so if u think it'd do then I should at least give it a try, and the saving will make me feel better about shelling out so much for the PC4000!

On the memory again, I just remembered that the OCZ looks hard to come by at the mo' and seems expensive. This is one of the few places that has it and £180 for 512 is harsh...
http://www.pc-memory-upgrade.co.uk/m...ram-pc4000.asp
... considering that microdirect.co.uk have Geil PC4200 (!!!) for £134.

I've got a Zalman NB cooler on the Soltek board - jeez couldn't figure out how to take the darn clips off the old fan - but I agree, it's a top product - very quiet! I got a flower cooler way back but that was just total pants.

[Austin]

The Pally's were very hot runners and always mult locked so not good for o/c'ing at all. TbredB £38 XP1700+ on the other hand regularly hit 2.2ghz and 400FSB making them close to a true XP3000+ but for a great deal less. Barton are also great o/c'ers (again always unlocked) and 2.2ghz 400FSB is again pretty easy and then you really do get a 100% XP3200+! IMHO Geil are worse than OCZ ever were and would seriously point you to TwinMOS ideally with Winbond sold IIRC at www.refreshcomputers.com www.cpucity.co.uk and www.komplett.co.uk

[fondie]

your current PSU is definately worth a go, from what i've read the Vantec ION is more of a budget based PSU, the QuietPC one isn't!

that GeiL PC4000/4200 Ultra Platinum kit looks v.promising (the PC4000 has superior memory timings), i'd suggest you see whether you can find any reviews of that, there is no reason why it shouldn't be as good/better than the OCZ stuff. Why do you say they are worse Austin? I've heard almost all good things about GeiL.

[luke313]

Originally posted by shredisn@tdead
...PSU - I've actually got a 350W from QuietPC.com, made by Q-Technology I think...

It wouldn't be one that looks like this would it??


If it does, then you will probably have to shaft out some more money on a better psu. The Q-Tec psu's are renowned for having low rails and being unreliable. A 430watt Antec or Enermax would easily be sufficient for a stable overclocked system.
As for the overclocking, it really is as simple as upping the fsb and a couple of notches on the vcore and then testing for stability.
A Radeon 9500pro is better than the 9600pro, so maybe you could go for the 9600pro/5600ultra(Slightly better) and swap it with the 9500pro??


EDIT: Just realised that the psu manufacturers Q-Technology and Q-Tec are totally different. Your psu should easily be good enough for your system.

[fondie]

no, won't be that one luke, i'm not sure whether Q-Technology and Q-Tec are the same people but they are definately different PSUs :- http://www.quietpc.com/uk/psu.php

[shredisn@tdead]

This is the PSU, it's a 300W, could've sworn it was a 350! I must be getting old... I got it for the lack of volume, but it seems to chuck out quite a bit of heat sometimes:


I never realized I had the "poor man's" Athlon! That should be "ignorant man's" in my case! I think I only ever got the 133 bus up to 142 stable abouts. If the P4C proves to be so simple then I might have a go at a Barton - sounds like much more of a challenge!

Everyone's got they're own favourite different RAM so I'd best read up the most on that... Will check out those websites, I heard of Komplett but never heard of the other 2.

When it comes to P4's, presumably its a bit of a lottery how much you can crank it up? I remember way back with PIIIs you used to try and make sure it came from a "good" batch... Yes, I'm that old! I've not seen any CPU vendors rate P4s, saying like "this 2.4 has been tested to do 3.3" or whatever so my guess is that you'd have to be pretty unlucky to get one that won't go high, right? But if you do get one what then? I never heard of anyone doing an RMA because they couldn't clock the CPU they just bought high enough!! LOL

Oh, and another thing, when pushing the FSB up to 250+ do you need to worry about AGP ratios or anything else? There must be something else you have to worry about, I just can't believe it really is that easy

[fondie]

very few places will guarantee cpu clocks now, it's just not worth their while. the current P4C chips are very good overclockers, i have not seen a single report of a 2.4C not reaching at least 3.0Ghz with a stock cooler, obviously some chips do overclock better than others, so it is luck of the draw, but even poor overclocks with these chips are fast!! if you do get one which you aren't pleased with you can always sell it second hand and buy a new one, you won't lose too much £££, some of the very serious guys will buy a number of chips/graphics cards, see how they all overclock, keep the best one and sell on the rest.

RMAing a product because it doesn't meet your expectations of how well it should perform rather than what the manufacturer clearly states it should perform isn't exactly fair on the manufacturers and i'd hope they'd tell people who attempted to do so to get lost.

www.cpucity.co.uk is a top rate store, v.helpful, and i can't think of anyone on these forums who will say different.

luckily now, lots of boards allow you to lock the agp and pci frequencies so you no longer have to worry about them. i've still got my P3 800EB, never did get it running at 1Ghz due to the AGP frequency being too high, it really isn't as hard now.

your 300W PSU is still adequate for an average system, i'm running a generic 300W PSU that's a good 2 years old in my system and have had no problems at all with it.