Is this ok for a cheap gaming rig?

[micovwar]

Hey there

i havent been here for years,i used to be an avid shuttle xpc fan on these forums but then i stopped building and just settled with laptops but now after all these years im wanting to build myself another shuttle for gaming as my overclocked laptop 8600m gt just aint cutting it anymore.

the thing is there doesnt seem to be alot of choice for small form factor pc,s from what i see,is the small pc market dying or am i missing something,it must be a shuttle sized pc i cant go back to full size towers again and im also on somewhat of a budget but i still managed to put together what i thought was a decent spec shuttle for around £400 from ebuyer,im just looking for some oppinions if you can spare a minute..

heres a list,just wondering if you think this is a decent deal:

Shuttle SG41J1 Plus XPC Barebone for SKT775 Intel CPUs £104.14

Samsung SH-S223 22x DVD±RW DL & RAM SATA Optical Drive - £14.99

Kingston 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 1066MHz i5 Memory Kit 1.5V CL7 £35.87

Intel Pentium Dual Core E6600 Socket 775 3.06GHz 1066FSB 2MB Cache Retail Boxed Processor £55.98
Tuniq TX3 High Performance Thermal Grease 3gram syringe £4.53

Samsung HD103SJ Spinpoint F3 1TB Hard Drive SATAII 7200rpm 32MB Cache £42.08

Gigabyte GTX 460 OC 1GB GDDR5 OC Edition Dual DVI HDMI PCI-E Graphics Card £148.95

Cart total inc vat: £406.54

just wondering if this is a good deal for some basic gaming for a year or so.

cheers.

mic.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I would not be running a GTX460 off the 250W PSU in the SG41J1. The PSU AFAIK is not as good as the 300W version found in other Shuttles as the SG41J1 is a lower cost model and the case is also made of steel too. The HD6850 is a better choice as it will have lower power consumption than a GTX460 1GB.

Spending another £50 to £60 would make more sense in the long run IMHO.

You can get an SX48P2E which uses an X48 chipset and has a 450W PSU too:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/145419

I would suggest the following parts from Scan and Ebuyer.





This version of the SG05 has a higher wattage PSU:

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/silve...s-bronze-black

The SG07 has been on special offer from Scan a few times for around £120 IIRC:

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/silve...e-2-full-slots

Scan do special offers on the following web-pages:

http://www.scan.co.uk/todayonly/index.aspx

http://www.scan.co.uk/shopoffers/index.aspx

You can get free postage from Scan when you get 20 posts:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...&aqi=&aql=&oq=

I assume you also have a copy of Windows too.

[mkins99]

You can also get an 1GB MSI GTX 460 OC for £111.59 on scans today only section today - but Cat's probably the person to listen too

[micovwar]

cheers for the quick reply there,yeh i never gave a thought to the psu demand of the geforce card (ive been out of the scene for years) id much rather buy it all from the same supplier to be honest i only used ebuyer most times i built pc,s but im sure ive got a scan account too ile checkit out,do the i3 processors deliver enought grunt for modern day games etc i nearly bought an i3 dell xps lappy off ebay but then cancelled the idea to consentrate on a new shuttle.

cheers. mic.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

cheers for the quick reply there,yeh i never gave a thought to the psu demand of the geforce card (ive been out of the scene for years) id much rather buy it all from the same supplier to be honest i only used ebuyer most times i built pc,s but im sure ive got a scan account too ile checkit out,do the i3 processors deliver enought grunt for modern day games etc i nearly bought an i3 dell xps lappy off ebay but then cancelled the idea to consentrate on a new shuttle.

cheers. mic.

If you are on a budget buying from more than one supplier can maximise your budget. The Asus motherboard is not available on Scan (there are H67 ones which around £20 to £30 more expensive unless they are on special offer) and Silverstone Sugo cases are not sold by Ebuyer.

[micovwar]

cheers i have to say i do love that case you reccomended so thanks,have you built one of these before they look realy cool running with plenty of ventilation,im a bit unsure of putting the motherboard in though ive never done anything like that since my atx days (10 plus years ago lol) hence the reason i always used shuttle it was much less hassle with screws etc,cheers for info.

mic.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

cheers i have to say i do love that case you reccomended so thanks,have you built one of these before they look realy cool running with plenty of ventilation,im a bit unsure of putting the motherboard in though ive never done anything like that since my atx days (10 plus years ago lol) hence the reason i always used shuttle it was much less hassle with screws etc,cheers for info.

mic.

My last two main PCs have been Shuttles - a SN41G2 and a SD37P2. Both are still working ATM!

The only thing is that they are quite expensive for one of the newer models.

For my backup PC I ended up modding a spare G2 case I had to fit a mini-ITX motherboard:

http://forums.hexus.net/hexus-hardwa...cisions-4.html

I haven't used an SG05 myself but here is a review of the case:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/Silverstone_SG05_SG06

You can also get a slot mounted slimline DVD for around £10 to £15 more than a normal one.

If you can find a few more quid then the higher wattage version of the SG05 or even an SG07(when it is on offer) will give you more leeway IMHO. However,a Core i3 2100 and an HD6850 1GB should be fine on the stock 300W AFAIK.

[toberemembered]

I have been running an AMD quad core and 6850 on a 380w psu without any issues whatsoever so you may be okay with a 300w as long as its a decent make, maybe use a power calculator before you commit to buy, something like this will give you an estimate: http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

[Pob255]

Yes a 6850 or 6870 might be a better choice of card

ps did you see this case? http://www.ebuyer.com/product/266552 ok I'll admit it's not shuttle sized, it's actually microATX tower sized or about the same as two shuttles on top of each other.
But it is good for cooling. and bags of room for hardware.

I'd say for small gaming cases the SG07 is probably the best case out there atm, but not cheap.

Ok lets see what we can build from ebuyer, apart from that Cubitek case there's no other decent small option apart from shuttle
Shuttle SX48P2E http://www.ebuyer.com/product/145419 for £165 grab one now before they are gone
Pentium dual core e6600 http://www.ebuyer.com/product/193593 £55
Corsair 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Memory Kit CL5 1.8V http://www.ebuyer.com/product/164758 £45
XFX 6850 http://www.ebuyer.com/product/244473 £120
Samsung F1 500gb sata hard drive http://www.ebuyer.com/product/146252 £30
Samsung DVDrw sata http://www.ebuyer.com/product/145450 £13
total £428

Optional upgrades
Samsung F1 1tb sata hard drive http://www.ebuyer.com/product/173804 £42 (+£12 for double the capacity)
HIS 6870 http://www.ebuyer.com/product/245015 £150 (+£30 for more gpu performance)

I'd actually look at 2nd hand DDR2 it'll be much cheaper and you can probably get 4x1gb cheaper than 2x2gb 2nd hand

You don't have to worry about ddr3 over ddr2 on a socket 775 system, it's over very little use except for extreme overclocking, many 775 systems cannot even run ram at 1333mhz
Main issue is it's currently cheaper than ddr2 new

[micovwar]

Hi there

yeh i dont like that cubitec mini tank lol im all about piling the hardware into a small neat box that things like,, a tank

cheers for the advice that shuttle system definately works for me with the 450w psu,and i do like the look of that dualcore 3.06ghz in there infact its all pretty much perfect (however ile probably get the 1tb hard drive ) but i know nothing of modern day graphics cards so im wondering will the 6850 allow me to run most games like tdu 2,bfbc 2,c.o.d black ops,etc at highest res (samsung 40" lcd tv) through hdmi (with sound) with 4xaa and 4xaf?

ive been using my samsung "np r700" 17" laptop for gaming these past few years ( it has an 256mb 8600m gt ddr3) and upto recently coped pretty well with what i threw at it but with the above games i found i had to overclock the card to cope which it does well strangely enough its a hell of a clocker which sits stable at 600/1200/900 (standard: 475/702 ) but sadly its just not quite enough so ive decided rather than spent a bomb on a new laptop im coming back to small form factor gaming with the above system.

id much rather buy everything new though to avoid dissapointments etc and i dont mind spending that little extra,do you think "all" of the things youve listed will be compatible straight out of the boxes (ie no bios updates etc) because i just want to get on and build rather than mess with conflicts etc,you know how it is when its a new comp.

cheers for your input.

p.s pob your name looks familiar .

mic.

[Pob255]

Well the 6850 should leave the 256mb 8600m GT in the dust.
The 8600m gt is about the same performance as the gt 220

Or about a quarter the performance of the 6850

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Even though I am a Shuttle fan myself I still think the OP should go for a socket 1155 or AM3+ based system. Socket 775 even though still a capable platform is EOL whereas at least with socket 1155 you have more upgrade options. On top of this is the Core i3 2100 will less likely be a CPU bottleneck for gaming.

[Pob255]

That is true and I agree with you there.

The issue is one of cost and rarity.
while you could get a itx case+decent psu+motherboard+cpu cooler for £165, you're going to be hard pressed to get one that can also fit a decent graphics card.

The silverstone SG05 is your best bet, can be got from novatech for £75
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/p...sst-sg05b.html
leaving the cost of the cooler and motherboard to come to £90
actually that's do able, ps fitting a motherboard into a case is easy, just snap in the IO shield, lower the board in, align the holes and screw in.
you're working on the floor of the case, so you're not trying to hold it with one hand and screw with the other.

Silverstone sg05 case&psu http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/p...sst-sg05b.html £75
Asus p8h61-I motherboard http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/p...-g0eay0dz.html £70
G.Skill Ripjaws-X 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/p...l9d-4gbxl.html £40
i3 2120 3.3ghz http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/p...623i32120.html £108
Ati 6850 http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/p.../nov-6850.html £135
samsung 1tb f3 http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/p...g/hd103sj.html £41
Samsung slimline dvd http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/p...S083FBEBE.html £20

total £489
it's a bit more but it should perform better, main cost is in the cpu the i3 cost twice that of the pentium e6600

upgrades, sony slot loading dvd £40
cpu cooler . . . this is a tricky one because of the case and the location of the 1155 socket next to the pci-e slot on mitx boards (that's the one thing that really puts me off 1155 mitx for gaming)

edit: even bigger issues with AM3 mITX very very few boards about and they are cpu limited due to the higher end phenoms needing so much wattage.
novatech has the Asus M4A88T-I DELUXE AMD 880G http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/p...-G0EAY00Z.html it's £107 http://uk.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3/M4A88TI_Deluxe/ max cpu tdp 95w
Your best bet for cpu would be the PhenomII x2 555 BE http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/p...55wfgmbox.html for £70
But now what you've gained on cpu cost saving you've lost of motherboard cost, does have a better cpu socket position though.

[micovwar]

Wow thats a huge jump from where i am now i can barely wait to get building,, but ive got to make an order first and there lies the problem:
im all about ease and simplicity so im on autopilot heading towards shuttle because its all i know and i also like the idea of buying it all from the same vendor so with that in mind ebuyer (as usual) would be my choice.
but then again i do love the sg05 case (perfect design for the heat conscious like me) and originally i wanted a core i5 but bottled it because i dont know enough about them or even the new amd chips (all my shuttles were amd) im running a core 2 duo t5750 2.0ghz in my samsung and im looking for something thats gonna make a difference...

those mini itx boards look frighteningly fragile i know nothing about these,will they provide all the functionality and power of a full size board,are there any benefits/drawbacks?
i read through a little your thread cat-the-fifth can you game with these boards and are there any heat/reliability issues?

sorry its all abit much to take in lol,more info required.

thanks guys.

mic.

[Pob255]

Small boards are generally just as good as big ones, you do lose functionality, eg only one pci-e slot, no other slots, fewer sata ports, only 2 memory slots.

Main issues with the current mITX boards are only the H61 or H67 chipset so no overclocking and having the cpu socket so close to the pci-e slot.

Ps I've given you a build there through novatech, they are good to deal with, I rate them right up there with scan and ebuyer and they do free basic p&p on orders over £50 just like ebuyer

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

One thing - AMD Bulldozer and Llano are being released next month and it may mean better prices and more choice. However,I am uncertain when any mini ITX motherboards for these processors will be launched.

Here is a comparison between a 3.1GHZ Core i3 2100 and a 2.8GHZ Pentium E6300:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/289?vs=94

The H67 mini ITX motherboard has been fine so far. I use an HD5670 GDDR5 in combination with a Core i3 2100. I have played L4D and L4D2 on 1680X1050 on the highest settings and Borderlands on the highest settings at 1440X900 and gameplay does seem quite smooth.

The mini ITX motherboard tend to be rated for a maximum of 95W. I would be inclined to use a CPU with a TDP under this as I don't like pushing the VRMs too much. The Core i3 2100 has a 65W TDP. However,other people do use 95W TDP CPUs with similar motherboards. I would make sure you use a horizontal cooler such as the stock cooler as it keeps the VRMs cool(more of an issue with 95W TDP CPUs IMHO).