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overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Hi guys,
recently i purchased an ATI 5850 from overclockers co uk, after about ~3 weeks it turned out to be faulty. So i send it in for RMA fully expecting to receive a replacement after they forwarded it to sapphire.
Now they have refunded me, without my agreement. Since i purchased the GPU it has risen in price quite a lot. -so naturally i want a replacement...
They say that i agreed to the refund, but i dont see that part anywhere in that email. Can somebody please shed some light as to why they are acting in such a fashion? :help:
Quote:
a) You agreed to the refund when we gave you the terms and conditions of return in the RMA e-mail and you used the RMA number from that e-mail to send the item back.
Quote:
Dear Mr angrynerd,
Please review the following information and ensure it is correct:
==================================================
Products on RMA:
Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 5850 Extreme 1024MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card **OcUK Exclusive**
Please only return the products listed above on this RMA. Any products returned that are not on this RMA will be rejected and subject to a £12.50 + all shipping costs including collection charges if applicable + VAT charge.
Problem / Fault description: Faulty [No Post],
Desired action: Refund,
PLEASE CHECK THE ABOVE FOR ACCURACY AS WE CAN ONLY TEST FOR THE REPORTED FAULT. PLEASE PROVIDE AS MUCH INFORMATION ABOUT THE FAULT AS POSSIBLE AS ANY ITEM FOUND NOT TO BE FAULTY WILL BE RETURNED AT YOUR COST.
Any returned goods or replacements will be sent to: Mr angrynerd, angrynerds address
PLEASE CHECK THAT THE ABOVE ADDRESS IS CORRECT AS ONLY ONE ATTEMPT AT DELIVERING YOUR RETURNED OR REPLACEMENTS PRODUCTS WILL BE MADE, REDELIVERY WILL BE CHARGED AT OUR STANDARD RATES
This RMA number is valid from 04/07/2011 for 28 days, unless stated otherwise. If you are unable to return your products in this time please request a new RMA is issued when you are ready to return them
==================================================
PLEASE NOTE THERE IS A £12.50 + ALL SHIPPING COSTS INCLUDING COLLECTION CHARGES IF APPLICABLE+ VAT CHARGE FOR ANY ITEMS TESTED 'NO FAULT FOUND'. THIS CHARGE ONLY APPLIES TO ITEMS RETURNED FOR TESTING.
A summary of our terms and conditions can be found below.
1. PLEASE NOTE THAT ALL RETURNED PRODUCTS WILL BE INSPECTED FOR DAMAGE CAUSED BY POOR HANDLING OR MISUSE. FURTHERMORE, ALL LGA (LINE GRID ARRAY) AND AMD SOCKET MOTHERBOARDS WILL BE CHECKED FOR BENT OR DAMAGED PINS, MISSING SOCKET PROTECTORS, THERMAL PASTE OR ANY OTHER CONTAMINATION INSIDE THE CPU SOCKET. ANY PRODUCTS FOUND TO HAVE ANY EVIDENCE OF MISUSE, DAMAGE OR POOR HANDLING WILL BE DEEMED WARRANTY VOID, WILL BE RETURNED AND BE SUBJECT TO A £12.50 + RETURN SHIPPING + VAT CHARGE.
PLEASE CHECK THE FOLLOWING LINK FOR EXAMPLES OF DAMAGE THAT WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED UNDER WARRANTY, link removed
2. Testing - All returned items are tested by trained Overclockers UK Technicians. Any item found to be not faulty will be subject to a £12.50 + all shipping costs including collection charges if applicable + VAT charge. This does not affect your statutory rights.
3. Modified Goods. Any goods that have been modified or physically altered in any way shall be deemed Warranty Void and subject to a £12.50 + all shipping costs including collection charges if applicable + VAT charge.
4. Returned items must be packaged properly and shipped in a PLAIN OUTER BOX. ALL RETURNED PACKAGES MUST HAVE THE RMA NUMBER CLEARLY VISIBLE ON TWO SIDES OF THE OUTER PACKAGING. Any items that are poorly packed or received without RMA numbers will be REJECTED and subject to a £12.50 + return shipping + VAT charge.
5. Completeness of Returned Item(s)
For Items that are within 28 days of purchase please include all internal packaging and accessories (cables, manuals, drivers, power adapters, USB dongles and protective bags). Power Cables are not required for full systems purchased from Overclockers UK.
ALL RETURNED SYSTEMS MUST BE SHIPPED WITH THE GRAPHICS CARD REMOVED FOR TRANSPORT PURPOSES IF THE SYSTEM WAS ORIGINALLY SHIPPED IN THIS WAY.
- FOR FAULTY ITEMS THAT ARE OVER 28DAYS OLD PLEASE ENSURE THAT ONLY THE FAULTY ITEM ITSELF IS RETURNED.
- FOR FAULTY MEMORY THAT IS BEING RETURNED THE WHOLE MEMORY KIT NEEDS TO BE RETURNED NOT THE JUST THE FAULTY MODULE.
- FOR FAULTY POWERSUPPLY RETURNS, ALL CABLES MUST BE RETURNED WITH THE UNIT SO THAT IT CAN BE FULLY TESTED.
Any item that is returned incomplete will be REJECTED and subject to a £12.50 + return shipping + VAT charge.
6. Monitors that are being returned must be returned to us in the protective bag that the monitor is sent out in. If you do not have a bag to return the monitor to us please request one for your return. Monitors that are returned without this will be REJECTED and subject to a £12.50 + all shipping costs including collection charges if applicable + VAT charge.
7. Customers that are returning items from outside the EC MUST fill in the customs declaration forms correctly and state that they are returning FAULTY GOODS, in the case of unwanted items please state that the items are being RETURNED. Failure to do this will result in the customs fees not being paid and the items or the fees being returned to the customer.
8. Compatibility – Applications. Drivers and games are often released to market with bugs that can affect hardware performance. Overclockers UK cannot guarantee that every hardware product is 100% compatible with every software and hardware product available.
9. Please note that letters included with RMA cannot always be acted upon. If you require your address to be changed please contact us via our WEB NOTE SERVICE or our SUPPORT TELEPHONE LINE.
Our full terms and conditions can be found at
oc co uk support url
In response to your RMA request, we have reserved a returns code RMA205042 for you to return your item(s).
**THE RMA NUMBER SHOULD BE CLEARLY VISIBLE ON TWO SIDES OF THE OUTER PACKAGING**
Below is a shipping label which you may wish to use on your parcel.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RMA205042
Overclockers UK
4 Axis, Millennium Way
High Carr Business Park
Newcastle-under-lyme
ST5 7UF
If you place your order online, you can track the progress of your RMA by logging into your account on our website. Just Select RMA History from the left hand column.
Please be aware that returns are booked in as they are processed, as such your RMA may say not yet received for up to a day after it has been signed for on our premises so please do not be concerned if your RMA status has not been updated straight away.
Regards,
Overclockers UK - Support
WebNotes:- webnote url
Telephone:- 0871 200 5053
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS AUTOMATED EMAIL
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Do they have any in stock? They have been discontinued so it would explain the rise in price - they are still quite desirable by Bitcoin miners for example, being one of the fastest cards for it. I'm not sure how things work legally (Hexus member Saracen is good with this) but OcUK aren't exactly known for their great customer services...
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Yes they are in stock but i wouldnt mind waiting because i assume they have to send it back to Sapphire in order to get a replacement themselves.
I would have send it back to sapphire myself but it appears that sapphire doesnt offer that if the shop who sold the item is still operational.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
How much is the refund amount??
HD6870 1GB cards have dropped quite a bit in price.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Well, operational only barely applies to OcUK support. ;)
You could try to say the shop is being unhelpful, I've had luck doing this with another retailer in the past, but they might not have any stock for an exact replacement themselves.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CAT-THE-FIFTH
How much is the refund amount??
100 pounds, quite a good price i believe.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
That's the same as the full purchase price, right?
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
watercooled
That's the same as the full purchase price, right?
Yes, otherwise that would be even more weird.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Buy my 5830!...or a newly reduced 6850 :)
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Not with four posts he won't :p
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
lol, its on ebay now anyway ;)
a 6850 would be an obvious option.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
In short, they are perfectly entitled offer you a full refund of all monies paid and nothing else. You cannot force them to offer you a replacement.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
angrynerd
....
They say that i agreed to the refund, but i dont see that part anywhere in that email. Can somebody please shed some light as to why they are acting in such a fashion? :help:
.... Erm
Quote:
Please only return the products listed above on this RMA. Any products returned that are not on this RMA will be rejected and subject to a £12.50 + all shipping costs including collection charges if applicable + VAT charge.
Problem / Fault description: Faulty [No Post],
Desired action: Refund,
I've added the red emphasis. That seems to about cover it.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Feel sorry for OcUK? Seriously? :P
Maybe they were misjudged in this case but it's the exception rather than the rule from my experience...
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Ocuk have actually improved, hard to believe but they have. I took a chance and have had an excellent experience with them.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
TBH I've not dealt with them for a few years now so that may well be the case, but I'd still be hesitant to give them another try.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Same, when I used to use them I really liked them, however it was not until I had my first major issue and had to RMA that I learnt how bad they where (at the time)
I don't know if this is what happened, but it wouldn't surprise me if, angrynerd originally asked for a replacement card only to get this email for a RMA refund instead and didn't spot it because he thought it was agreed on for a replacement.
At least that's almost exactly what happened to me in the past, I'd phone up or web message and be told one thing then get an email saying something something different.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Yeah I was thinking the same thing.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
It was my mistake - i am sorry, i should have been more paranoid,
after looking at that email twice and even asking a friend to look over it to see if he could find where it said that i want a refund i and him still couldnt find it. It appears the first couple of posters didnt spot it either, or didnt read it.
After i recognised the faulty card i send them the following message. I would have thought that the "get it fixed" part implied that i was looking for a replacement but silly me.
I am not from the UK, the general practice where i am from is to replace broken things. Never have i experienced a refund without explicit permission or lack of a proper replacement.
It´s a bit sad that my mistake cannot be resolved in a mutual way. I am only human, i am prone to mistakes but i cant feel that i got taken for a ride, especially considering there was no option to select if i want a replacement or a refund.
Quote:
Hello,
one of the cards isnt working anymore, i get no signal.
Please let me know if you need further information and where i should ship it to get it fixed.
Greetings
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
angrynerd
It was my mistake - i am sorry, i should have been more paranoid,
after looking at that email twice and even asking a friend to look over it to see if he could find where it said that i want a refund i and him still couldnt find it. It appears the first couple of posters didnt spot it either, or didnt read it.
After i recognised the faulty card i send them the following message. I would have thought that the "get it fixed" part implied that i was looking for a replacement but silly me.
I am not from the UK, the general practice where i am from is to replace broken things. Never have i experienced a refund without explicit permission or lack of a proper replacement.
It´s a bit sad that my mistake cannot be resolved in a mutual way. I am only human, i am prone to mistakes but i cant feel that i got taken for a ride, especially considering there was no option to select if i want a replacement or a refund.
I can understand why you feel aggrieved about this, but ....
- as for not being from the UK, that's hardly OcUK's fault, and they can't really be expected to know what common practices are in your home country. I mean, they're a UK company, operating in the UK. I don't want to seem harsh, but I'd expect them to operate within UK law, and as far as I can tell, they have.
- under UK law, you have a right to express a preference for a replacement or refund, but UK consumer law also explicitly states that they don't have to honour that wish, if to do so would be disproportionately expensive. If the product has gone up a lot in the meantime, that may well be "disproportionately expensive", compared to a refund.
- as for being resolved in a mutual way, I'd agree that that would obviously be both preferable and professional, but here, we can only comment on what we see and what we don't have is OcUK's side of the story. That makes it nearly impossible to have an opinion on whether they've been reasonable or not, in reaching "mutual" agreement. We, literally, don't have a clue on that, in this case.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
It could have been worse!! You could have got less money due to your three weeks of usage!! ;)
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
I know your posts is in jest mooseman, but I actually agree.
When it comes to it, angrynerd, you've bought a product that doesn't work. You've been given a refund, and are no worse off than you were when you started. Now you want to try and exploit a loophole in order to get back more money than you started off with.
If they were denying you a refund, then I would be right behind your argument, but right now it comes across as though you're trying to make a quick buck effectively. If the product you wanted is no longer available, find another one. It's not as if you need a very specific graphics card or your PC won't work.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
snootyjim
I know your posts is in jest mooseman, but I actually agree.
Up to a degree but Scan do operate this policy though at times. Of course I don't know whether it is implemented after a minimum time period.
TBH,both Amazon and Ebuyer seem to be the best for returns and refunds AFAIK.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Oh I'm well aware of Scan's return policy, I've been subjected to it a few times.
Anyway, I'm sure there's enough OCUK vitriol in this forum to keep this thread going for a few days without bringing Scan into the equation :p
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
CAT-THE-FIFTH: I doubt that would be legal, considering the timeframe.
snootyjim: I do not understand your argument.
I was trying to get the product i bought replaced, i dont see how i could have profited from that in any way.
The product is still in stock and is still the same product. (i guess you could say that it isnt the same article since the price has changed but thats a moot point because the faulty card goes back to sapphire anyways....)
Saracen: You have been most helpful, please delete or close the topic.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
angrynerd
CAT-THE-FIFTH: I doubt that would be legal, considering the timeframe.
Like I said there might be a minimal time period. Anyway,many UK retailers have poor customer service IMHO. It even extends to companies like Canon and Apple too with their UK operations. There have been products recalled in the US due to faults and guess what?? The same affected products in the UK were not recalled. In the end you have to argue with the gits to get anything done or dig up the information yourself.
Whether you will get an HD5850 1GB might depend on whether Sapphire themselves have any more of the cards available. It could be the only stock available is from OcUK and they don't want to use this stock. It could be down to whatever arrangement they have with Sapphire for compensation.
TBH,open a thread on the OcUK support forums or even the main forum and you might get a better response.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
snootyjim
I know your posts is in jest mooseman, but I actually agree.
When it comes to it, angrynerd, you've bought a product that doesn't work. You've been given a refund, and are no worse off than you were when you started. Now you want to try and exploit a loophole in order to get back more money than you started off with.
If they were denying you a refund, then I would be right behind your argument, but right now it comes across as though you're trying to make a quick buck effectively. If the product you wanted is no longer available, find another one. It's not as if you need a very specific graphics card or your PC won't work.
I see it the opposite way - he's bought a graphics card for a good price and expected to be able to use it or at least have use of an equivalent card within the warranty period. Surely he hasn't deliberately made it fail to gain a profit? Now that £100 refund won't buy a card as fast as a 5850 so from his point of view, he's been done over. I.e. for reasons beyond his control, he's effectively lost money/the same money has depreciated in a way. He should have been explicitly asked if he wanted a replacement/refund, rather than the shop picking the one they will benefit the most from (they will probably get a replacement and be able to sell it at an inflated price). Fair enough if none of the cards were available, but they are still in stock.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blackmage
Ocuk have actually improved, hard to believe but they have. I took a chance and have had an excellent experience with them.
Really? I have mostly had bad experiences when dealing with their customer service, but it has been a few years since I dared to use them.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
watercooled
I see it the opposite way - he's bought a graphics card for a good price and expected to be able to use it or at least have use of an equivalent card within the warranty period. Surely he hasn't deliberately made it fail to gain a profit? Now that £100 refund won't buy a card as fast as a 5850 so from his point of view, he's been done over. I.e. for reasons beyond his control, he's effectively lost money/the same money has depreciated in a way. He should have been explicitly asked if he wanted a replacement/refund, rather than the shop picking the one they will benefit the most from (they will probably get a replacement and be able to sell it at an inflated price). Fair enough if none of the cards were available, but they are still in stock.
I agree with that, but can see the other side too.
But here's a question ....
If the consumer buys a card, has problems with it and gets a refund, are they going to be happy if the money they get back is what that card would cost if it's gone down in the meantime? My bet is that, in that situation, most people would want back what they paid, not what the card costs now, or they'd want a better card that now costs what the old one cost when bought.
I've lost count of how many times I've bought some computer component, only to see it replaced weeks or even days later, with a faster, more capable version at the same price, immediately devaluing the one I bought.
So, somewhere along the line, we have to accept that sometimes, things will work out in a way that isn't to our advantage. While I can sympathise with why angrynerd would feel ripped off by this, the principle is that if you effectively cancel a contract, both sides are put back into the position they'd be in had the contract never taken place. By expecting OcUK to refund more than was paid to reflect the card having increased in the mean time, the inference is not that a card was bought, but that a card with some kind of insurance against unknown and unpredictable changes in price built-in was bought.
Yes, a consumer is entitled to request a replacement card if it's not disproportionately expensive, compared to refund. Perhaps it is. But unless we're all prepared to accept refunds of market value when prices have gone down, we shouldn't expect refunds at market value when prices have (unusually, I might add) gone up.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Oh I understand both sides of the argument, one side is going to be left unhappy either way. I'm not suggesting the market value should impact the refund amount - that could cause all sorts of problems - rather they should have properly agreed on whether he wanted refund/replace.
I'm assuming the demand for 58xx by Bitcoin miners (and lack of supply) has driven the prices up, but it's counter-productive paying that much more, especially considering how bitcoins are harder to mine now. I mean 5870s are on sale for >£300 now??? Unless you need that exact card for a system for whatever reason, why on Earth would you pay that much?
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
watercooled
Oh I understand both sides of the argument, one side is going to be left unhappy either way. I'm not suggesting the market value should impact the refund amount - that could cause all sorts of problems - rather they should have properly agreed on whether he wanted refund/replace.
....
On that last point, and with greatest respect to angrynerd, I've no idea what was or wasn't properly agreed. I've no idea what OcUKs RMA system is, having not bought anything from them in many years, and having never used their RMA system.
That's why I said earlier that we, or at least I, don't know their side. Maybe there's a check box or drop-down defaulted to that. Maybe their T&Cs give them the right to choose. Maybe someone there goofed and clicked the wrong option. I don't know. Or maybe it's simply the change in price that's behind it. If so, it could be that they have that board in stock, but that it cost them a lot more than the one originally sold did, and that they'd take a hit if directly replacing it. There's a lot of maybe's, because I just don't know.
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Re: overclockers co uk refuses to send me a replacement, refunds instead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
watercooled
I'm assuming the demand for 58xx by Bitcoin miners (and lack of supply) has driven the prices up, but it's counter-productive paying that much more, especially considering how bitcoins are harder to mine now. I mean 5870s are on sale for >£300 now??? Unless you need that exact card for a system for whatever reason, why on Earth would you pay that much?
I would suggest that if they are on sale for over £300 it's a failure to drop prices over time above all.
They are definitely good for mining, but only because they're so much cheaper than the 6 series, and roughly the same speed.
I bought some brand new for £125 each very recently, and sold them for £100 each second hand, so nobody's paying £300+, even if sites are listing them for that amount.
Especially when Bitcoin mining is a profit centred business, starting off with a heavily overpriced card will kill any hope of making money.