Need advice re: NAS or DIY PC

[nasorpc]

Sorry for the delayed reply. I have been doing the rj45 wiring from the upstairs office pc to the downstairs super hub. I've got to do it bit-by-bit to avoid too much mess. I still have a little bit more to do, so that should be sorted by tomorrow.

Right! To make life easier, lets just forget that we are going to have a 2nd media player such as apple or WDTV or DLNA...For now lets ONLY concentrate on the HTPC which will be downstairs for the family to watch movies.

I want to have a simple setup for family to use. currently the pc has win7 and XBMC. I want the pc to:-

1. quickly boot up using least resources and load to a chosen media interface, which is very easy to use by the family.

2. be able to accept files i send from upstairs pc when transferring.

3. be able to auto download and categorise files in the relevant folders

4. be used like a nas to share files around the network

5. be locked down, so when I'm not around, kids can't suddenly delete everything.


Sorry mate, but I don't know what this samba or cif means or how to set it up.

Sorry for so many questions....

Thanks again

[Biscuit]

1. quickly boot up using least resources and load to a chosen media interface, which is very easy to use by the family.

A Solid State Drive will help with your boot times. If you search around enough they can be picked up for around £1 per GB now but at worst you will pay £1.20 per GB which is still reasonable for the performance increase they offer. HDUK is a good place to check for deals. XBMC is a good piece of software to use, the interface itself is pretty easy to use but its also quite customisable so you can have it set up however you like it.

2. be able to accept files i send from upstairs pc when transferring.

4. be used like a nas to share files around the network

Both of these tasks can be done using network shares. Here is a brief explanation to help you make sense of it.
CIFS (common internet file system) and SMB (server message block) are different terms for the same thing. It's protocol which allows you to share a file/folder/printer/device over a network so you can remotely access it from another computer. This type of share is accessible across a number of different platforms so its pretty common
AFP is again, very similar, however it is an Apple protocol and therefore not really used in PC environments. I will eventually be phasing it out once i get rid of my Macbook.
NFS is another one which you may see whilst researching network shares but its more unix/linux based so its not often found in windows environments.

Just as a pointer before you start, homegroup and workgroup are different things so don’t get them confused. Windows 7 will try and make you set up a 'homegroup' to share files and folders to other windows 7 computers. Whilst it does make things easier, it might be worth getting to grips with SMB/CIFS sharing anyway as a homegroup is unlikely to work with a media player. Here is a Microsoft guide to setting this stuff up, there are multiple others on the web so I would have a good read of a few.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/w...s-with-someone

3. be able to auto download and categorise files in the relevant folders

Not sure about this one I'm afraid, I do all the categorisation manually but I would have thought most downloading software will have some form of auto categorisation.

5. be locked down, so when I'm not around, kids can't suddenly delete everything.

I would recommend setting up different users on the PC each with different permissions so that when its just your kids using it, they only have read access to the media files. Here is another Microsoft page with more info
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../bb727008.aspx

To be extra safe (as kids always manage to figure stuff out, the crafty little scamps) its good practice to have a backup regime and make semi-regular backups of importants files, maybe even the OS so you have somewhere to fall back on.

[nasorpc]

1. Sorry, what i meant by quick boot mate is that i want to slim down any bloated software...for example i'm sure win7 ultimate loads a tons of tiny programs, that use extra resources. Unless you meant that i get SSD, just to put windows on it?

2 & 4. I'm still confused with this. By Samba, CIFS do you mean right-click and share a folder on the network? If so, isn't this a slow process and also the same as having everyone on one home group?

3. I'll look into this and see if i can find any info. Examples are Vuze - A bittorrent app which downloads and categorises.

5. Right mate, thanks for that info. I'll look into it.

Am i better off removing windows totally and putting on another system like linux or freenas to make the network+computers go faster?

[Biscuit]

1. Sorry, what i meant by quick boot mate is that i want to slim down any bloated software...for example i'm sure win7 ultimate loads a tons of tiny programs, that use extra resources. Unless you meant that i get SSD, just to put windows on it?

That is what i meant yes, the other advantage of this is that your media drive can be purely media.

2 & 4. I'm still confused with this. By Samba, CIFS do you mean right-click and share a folder on the network? If so, isn't this a slow process and also the same as having everyone on one home group?

It seems a little like we are going in circles with this, perhaps my explanations are not very good, i would advise you to do some googling and read around the buzz words im using.
SMB/CIFS is the protocol which windows uses to share files on the network once you have done the right click share files thing.
There isnt a lot of difference between homegroup and workgroup as far as i know. Their basic function is to make it easier for you to see the other computers connected to each other in the network using my computer.
The problem with homegroup is that its windows 7 only, and connecting this way is unlikely to work with a WDTV or Apple TV.
Im not sure what you mean by its a slow process, do you mean its slow to select every folder? If thats the case then you just drop everything in a parent folder and share that.
If you mean transfers are slow then unfortunately your stuck with whatever the speed of your network/hard drives will allow. A 100Mb ethernet network connection will top out at ~10MBps and there isnt really anything you can do, besides getting a fairly cheap unmanaged GbE switch, connecting that to the main router then connecting all your devices to the new switch

Am i better off removing windows totally and putting on another system like linux or freenas to make the network+computers go faster?

FreeNas is purely NAS software. It has no GUI and the computer would no longer be usable as a XBMC machine. A free linux distro such as Ubuntu would work quite well with XBMC, but linux is not the same as windows so be prepared to research stuff!

[mycarsavw]

Going right back to the start and picking a few bits from all the replies it looks as though you're now looking at playback devices as well as NAS/streaming?

I'm using a Synology DS211 to stream (via homeplugs) to a Popcorn Hour C200 and (via WiFi) to a 360. It's also my 24/7 CCTV monitor and there's no sign of stuttering whatsoever.

I can stream a (backed up) BD to the C200 and pause, rewind, etc without issue all the while the CCTV is recording.

You've also mentioned torrenting and automatic downloading. You can add packages to the Synology line of NAS. Things like SickBeard, CoachPotato have been ported by this guy.

If I've got carried away and run off with the wrong end of the stick, ignore all of this, if not, hello

If I had to do it all again I'd not change a thing - both devices have HUGE user support networks and there's a lot of smart nerds out there.

[nasorpc]

sorry for the late reply guys. i couldn't get back earlier as i was working.

@ carsavw - thanks for the suggestion mate, but i've decided to keep this pc. Plus i'm sure this pc can do everything a nas can do and more. Synology = 1.6ghz and pc = 2.8ghz (dual core). Homeplugs is great, but nothing can beat a direct LAN connection. Best of all - All programs like sickbeard and couch potato work on a pc , so no compatibility issues there.

@ biscuit - thanks mate. sorry for giving you the run arounds...i'm just looking for an all-in-one solution that will seamlessly integrate without having to tweak it everytime.

Right, i'm happy with the SSD suggestion, but i won't get that immediately as i first want to make sure i can get everything working. Next is SMB. I did read up about this, but i found a mention on a forum that NFS highly recommended and its accepted by WDTV live. Here is a quote:-

Streaming Note: NFS is far quicker than SMB, if you want to stream 1080p HD then consider using NFS, you can do this on Linux and windows, windows requires an NFS server to be installed (windows services for unix or Hanewin).

What do you think?

Regarding, freenas...forget it mate as i don't want it...prefer windows as unlikely to have compatibility issues.

Lastly i've checked both my pc's + superhub and it looks like all my connections are going to be gigabit . I assume though its set to 100mbps, so is there a way of enabling this or will it auto-detect?

Thanks again. Will chat tomorrow.

Cya!

[Biscuit]

@ biscuit - thanks mate. sorry for giving you the run arounds...i'm just looking for an all-in-one solution that will seamlessly integrate without having to tweak it everytime.

seriously, anything outside the world of mac WILL require tweaking, even mac aren't entirely dumb-ass proof. Dont worry though, its addictive as hell!
Starts with a media centre, then its switches, then its servers....

Right, i'm happy with the SSD suggestion, but i won't get that immediately as i first want to make sure i can get everything working.

Good call!

Next is SMB. I did read up about this, but i found a mention on a forum that NFS highly recommended and its accepted by WDTV live. Here is a quote:-
What do you think?

I think you are getting ahead of yourself! First step i would say, is to get CIFS to work between the media PC and your desktop. Once you have your head around that, then give NFS a go.

Regarding, freenas...forget it mate as i don't want it...prefer windows as unlikely to have compatibility issues.

Lastly i've checked both my pc's + superhub and it looks like all my connections are going to be gigabit . I assume though its set to 100mbps, so is there a way of enabling this or will it auto-detect?

Thanks again. Will chat tomorrow.

Cya!

Yeah freenas can be a pain aswell, a thread has just come up to recommend an alternative which is openmediavault. Worth considering if you change your mind about a dedicated NAS.

It should all auto detect, if it doesn't then it could be that the cable ends haven't been made off properly, the cable itself isn't good enough for GbE, the switch might have been forced to work at 100Mbps and you may have to log into it and change a setting or in the unusual (but not unheard of) case that the switch doesn't auto negotiate properly, you can set the speed manually by configuring your network adapter through device manager.

[nasorpc]

Sorry for the delayed reply. Been busy lately with work.

I just want to thank EVERYONE for all the help and support i've had.

I've just installed Lan Speed Test as i wanted to see what gigabit network speed is like. Here's the results:-

---Writing--- ---Reading---
Packet length: 1,048,576,000 1,048,576,000
Time to complete:15.6392949 19.7743197
Bytes per second:67,047,524 53,027,159
Bits per second : 536,380,192 424,217,272
------------- -------------
Mbps: 511.5320129 404.5651169

What do you think?

[Biscuit]

Looks liek your running at around 500Mbps each way which suggests you are only half duplex rather than full duplex. Explanation. The most likely reason for this is the way the devices are set up, i would be suprised if the signal drop was like this because of the cabling.

Thats still more than adequete for your needs however i suspect you should really be getting full duplex.

[nasorpc]

thanks biscuit. Maybe you could check lan speed on your network and give me the results? As far as i thought, 1.0gb was theoretical and in reality you tend to get 500-700mbps?

[Biscuit]

'Theoretical bandwidths' are something which tends to effect wireless networks more so than wired. With a wired connection your usually pretty much guaranteed the connection speed. Il check when i get home though.

[nasorpc]

i've redone the test again...now it says w=600mbps+ and r=300mbps+. It seems like its flutuating all the time.

Anyhow, i'm happy with this mate.

I'll have to chat later as i'm off to work.

Thanks!

[nasorpc]

OH DEAR! With all this excitement of a HTPC and network setup, i got a bit carried away....whilst trying to put some white trunking behind the cat 5e cable, i tried to stick it down using it's adhesive side. But because the wall wasn't straight it wouldn't stick properly. So i decided to drill a hole to screw down the trunking. Whilst drilling, the cat5e got caught out! The jacket has been damaged and some of the wire bare metal can be seen. Strange enough, the network still works fine and i haven't had any issues, but what should i do? fix it or leave it?