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About LinkBacksOh, and can anyone explain the difference between a D5 and a DDC? I have no idea...
Oh, and can anyone explain the difference between a D5 and a DDC? I have no idea...
By the way, when I say the pump is "quite audible", I'm being pretty picky... after reading your initial post again, even without suspending my pump, my system would have been waaaaay quieter than your dual GTX 580 system...
Hehehe, trust me: I'm picky too, so I might go down that same route too. The CPU block I want (Apogee Drive II) isn't available in the UK yet, so I might need to have a separate pump
Personally, I wouldn't worry about it too much... my setup is a single loop like this:Originally Posted by chrisbreame
Reservoir --> Pump --> CPU --> GPU --> Radiator --> Reservoir.
I sure there probably is some marginal benefit to have two loops... but people tend to *massively* over-engineer and over-complicate watercooling loops. Watercooling is extremely effective, and despite my GPU (an HD7970) coming after the CPU (an i7 980x) in the loop, I've never seen the GPU core temperature go above 55 degrees C, and this is on a hot day, whilst at full load and overclocked by about 25%. And my CPU dumps about as much heat as it's possible for a CPU to do (~160 Watts). This is with a single 3x120mm radiator (an XSPC RX360), which I reckon is good for dissipating about a kilowatt of heat with the fans on maximum - so in my case, this is already massively over-engineered, and yet people will sometimes have two radiators of this size in their system...
I guess what I'm saying is: beware the law of diminishing returns; whatever you do will be a big improvement.
Last edited by Fraz; 08-06-2012 at 06:15 PM.
Been a while since I looked at this stuff, but I think a DDC pump is a little rectangular pump that can sit at the bottom of an integrated reservoir/pump. A D5 Vario pump is about twice as powerful, a lot more industrial-looking, and you can change the flow speed on it. You can see the two types on this page:
http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/index.php?cPath=40_101
With a D5 Vario pump you can get various "tops" for it to make it easier to connect with the rest of your kit. Probably best understood by looking at the pictures in this post:
http://forums.hexus.net/chassis-mods...ml#post1917997
for a start the koolance is designed to run a pump or 2 as well.
down to personal choice i guess.
Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack
off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.
Ahhh, I didn't realist that the aquaero didn't work with pumps... Must re-think this. Thanks for letting me know
Thanks again for the info Fras. I think that maybe the loop would be ok given that I'm going to get one of the beefiest single radiators you can get easily. With that ridiculous northbridge and the second card in there, there's going to be a lot more heat dumped into the system thn yours but I should just go for I and see what happens ;-)
So then - any more suggestions from watercooling geeks?
Man, I've just been reading this thread over again properly, and saw what radiator you're planning on using... 9x140mm?! That's probably bigger than the radiators on some cars!
Certainly sounds waaaaaay OTT, but if you're doing it for the hell of it, then why not I guess. I basically agree with everything that Dangel has said so far... with a single 3x120mm rad, I'm nowhere near capacity and can cool everything quietly. 9x140 is totally off the scale! If it was mounted horizontally, I'd have thought you could probably get away with no fans at all most of the time, and just rely on pure convection cooling.
Pump noise - I have a vario and elimination is simple - stand it on something that absorbs the vibration. Something as simple as very thick foam will do this but in my case I found a lump of 'gel like stuff' which is superb. Bought it from some supplier years back but it'd take some hunting to find out where! Won't elastic fail eventually?
One thing you haven't asked is - what to fill the system with? Are you going with a non conductive liquid (MCT etc) or just pure water? For info I use purified water and then add Redline Water Wetter - this has two benefits it supposidly lowers the surface tension of water making it better at conducting heat but (and more importantly) it makes the system toxic which eliminates algae. I've also had no problems with corrosion (since it's safe for cars) either in the ten plus years and four/five systems i've built with WC.
Rad is definitely mental, but as I said before it's your babyNo thoughts on the 670 suggestion?
Oh one other thing came to mind - if you are going to run fans up and down make sure you start them at full speed and ramp them down - lots of fans won't spin up at all otherwise. I use a clever lump of electronics which fires everything up at full speed and then drops them down to a preset voltage which guarantees spin up. You could also think about using a flow meter hooked to a fan header to check you've got waterflow (and to shutdown the system quick in an emergency - imagine it being at full load in a game and then the pump cuts out..).
Last edited by dangel; 09-06-2012 at 11:45 AM.
Crosshair VIII Hero (WIFI), 3900x, 32GB DDR4, Many SSDs, EVGA FTW3 3090, Ethoo 719
Just plain ol' water and pt-nuke (a biocide to prevent algae - just add a few drops) for me. Definitely don't get those "pre-mix" coloured liquids, as they break-down leaving weird slimy deposits in all your kit. Very bad news indeed.
Not heard of that water wetter stuff before - be interested to know if it makes a genuine difference!
Yes, the elastic slowly stretches over the course of a couple of years in my experience of doing this with hard-drives... but quite a bit of the weight is supported by the piping. It's pretty ugly looking, but it's very effective:
And yes, I know that the drain pipe coming off the t-bar is pretty pointless... It's an unfortunate consequence of the recent move-around of the pump.
Last edited by Fraz; 09-06-2012 at 12:45 PM. Reason: Added pics
Yeah, I've heard a lot of a lot of people doing this - either elastic (which will need to be changed every year or so as it'll degrade) or using a foamy sandwich thing (which apparently reflects a lot of heat back into pumps and 'supposedly' makes them fail over time). Not sure how real that last bit of info is :-/
I was just going to use the plainest pre-mix stuff I can find. Basically just distilled water and an anti-algae toxin. Nope, I wasn't going to use any of that weird sloppy stuff, nor any colours or sparkly effects. I remember reading that almost all coolants available have almost exactly the same cooling ability - various tests I've seen on review sites have shown them to be within about a degree of each other. So little point in going mad and getting anything exotic. This is purely functional and I couldn't care less what it looks like. The plainer the better for me!One thing you haven't asked is - what to fill the system with? Are you going with a non conductive liquid (MCT etc) or just pure water? For info I use purified water and then add Redline Water Wetter - this has two benefits it supposidly lowers the surface tension of water making it better at conducting heat but (and more importantly) it makes the system toxic which eliminates algae. I've also had no problems with corrosion (since it's safe for cars) either in the ten plus years and four/five systems i've built with WC.
Mental rad!Rad is definitely mental, but as I said before it's your babyYeaaaaah!
As for the 670, I'm probably not going to do it. TBH, I'm really happy with my 580s - they do me really well and will blast absolutely ANY game I throw at them. Yeah, they are heat generators, but with the big rad I think that the sheer surface area would be enough to get rid of that amount of wattage. Plus I can't imagine getting one 670 will make a huge amount of difference to games. I actually prefer single to multi - much less hassle with game profiles and SLI issues. But the 680 doesn't offer enough of an improvement over dual 580s to warrant it. Once the next generation of cards comes out (GTX780?), I'll go back to a single GPU again.
This is definitely something I had thought about - in fact it's the reason why I suggested some form of fan controller in my original post - to do exactly that. I was thinking it was a toss-up between the MCubed T-Balancer and the Aquacomputer Aquaero, but GoNz0 suggested the Koolance one instead. It's not one I'd seen before actually. I'd sort of decided on the Aquaero because it did pretty much everything I could think of and it had flow meters and temp sensors too (plus the all important ability to start fans/pumps at full speed and then ramp them down, and soft and hard shutdown on pump failure/temp extremes).Oh one other thing came to mind - if you are going to run fans up and down make sure you start them at full speed and ramp them down - lots of fans won't spin up at all otherwise. I use a clever lump of electronics which fires everything up at full speed and then drops them down to a preset voltage which guarantees spin up. You could also think about using a flow meter hooked to a fan header to check you've got waterflow (and to shutdown the system quick in an emergency - imagine it being at full load in a game and then the pump cuts out..).
Last edited by chrisbreame; 09-06-2012 at 01:47 PM.
Yep, that was pretty much the point. Seriously, noise from fans really (and I mean REALLY) annoys me. I recently rebuilt my file server (actually sits right next to my main machine) with a NoFan CR-95C and changed the boot drive to an SSD. What a massive difference! The PSU was fanless anyway, and I stripped out everything so there's only one fan left in the whole case (a thermalright TY-140) running at the slowest I can manage whilst not actually stopping. And strangely, the temperature of the CPU is actually LOWER than what it was with the previous HSF. Never goes above 27 degrees any more, even when transcoding. Result!
The only things in the machine which generate any noise are the mechanical hard drives in the RAID arrays. And even then, I set them to spin down after 5 mins of idle time. I actually had to fit a brighter light to the front of the case so I could tell when it is on.
jeez fraz, go buy some motor mounts before something happens and you fry the PC http://www.maplin.co.uk/anti-vibrati...+%26+Gearboxes
i have 2 of those per pump as i have ek res tops with mounting brackets, perfect
as i see you have brackets in place you could easy work the mounts in
Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack
off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.
Nice build Fraz, clean and tidy - just the way I like it. My machine is a complete mess in comparison, hahahahaha!
Good idea with the suspended pump - love the fact that it's just hanging there, and the fact that you've just used a bracket from B&Q with a hair band (just joking dude). It might not be the prettiest part of the build, but it's beautiful in it's simplicity. Not sure where I'd mount mine (my case is about half the size of yours), but I'm sure I'll find a place for it. I was hoping that the Apogee Drive 2 would be a good compromise - it's mounted on the CPU block itself so it's near the top of the case (therefore it'll be cooled by the fan up there) and it means one less component for clutter.
OK, what do you think about the choice of GPU blocks? I listed about 6 of them - does anyone know if one is any better than the others? Again, price is of no concern to me, nor are looks - I want the coolest running one.
Oh I meant TWO 670's25% loss of heat on either, all towards quietness but yeah prolly fine. I'm sticking with my 580 till the refresh like you.
GPU blocks - makes little difference IMHO - as long as their full cover blocks (VRMs as well etc) then they're much of a muchness. The drops in temps are huge anyway over air blocks.
Pumps - never had a pump fail on foam or on the 'gel stuff' sounds like nonsense - the pump will be cooled by the water anyway! What could be simpler?
Water wetter - dubious about the claims myself but it's very cheap for the volume of water it'll treat and because it's developed for car systems doesn't have corrosive effects. Simple, effective.
file server - N40L is mine - sit's in a cupboard, inaudible
Bit short but theres a cold one waiting for me
Crosshair VIII Hero (WIFI), 3900x, 32GB DDR4, Many SSDs, EVGA FTW3 3090, Ethoo 719
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