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Thread: Silent Watercooling request for help

  1. #33
    DILLIGAF GoNz0's Avatar
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    Re: Silent Watercooling request for help

    Quote Originally Posted by dangel View Post
    Oh I meant TWO 670's 25% loss of heat on either, all towards quietness but yeah prolly fine. I'm sticking with my 580 till the refresh like you.

    GPU blocks - makes little difference IMHO - as long as their full cover blocks (VRMs as well etc) then they're much of a muchness. The drops in temps are huge anyway over air blocks.

    Pumps - never had a pump fail on foam or on the 'gel stuff' sounds like nonsense - the pump will be cooled by the water anyway! What could be simpler? Beats messing with knicker elastic fraz!!!

    Water wetter - dubious about the claims myself but it's very cheap for the volume of water it'll treat and because it's developed for car systems doesn't have corrosive effects. Simple, effective.

    file server - N40L is mine - sit's in a cupboard, inaudible

    Bit short but theres a cold one waiting for me
    the problem with the pump is the housing is plastic and the impellers floating and not connected to the coils that get hot (with the circuit board)

    the cooling of the electrics is very limited, so much that mine have been housed over one of the inlet fans with a probe on each pump base that triggers the inlet to speed up if they get above 40 degrees (thanks to the koolance TMS card)

    koolance even sell a heatsink that replaces the housing on the pmp-400 http://koolance.com/index.php?route=...roduct_id=1058 to keep temps down.

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    Get in the van. Fraz's Avatar
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    Re: Silent Watercooling request for help

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisbreame View Post
    Good idea with the suspended pump - love the fact that it's just hanging there, and the fact that you've just used a bracket from B&Q with a hair band (just joking dude).
    I'll have you know that the brackets were from Screwfix actually

    And yes, those are hairbands - Wilkinsons, 10 for £1.

    I doubt that mod cost me more than 2 quid in total...

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    Re: Silent Watercooling request for help

    didn't read all the replies so sorry if I repeat what others have said. The quietest pump for watercooling is the pcps 12v. The reason you have never heard of it is because you probably can't use it for more than a very basic cpu loop. Due to this i would go for a aquacomputer aquastream ultra (with a shoggy sandwich underneath). Then obviously a mora as you suggested in your OP with fans you have two options either 4 180mm silverstone ones or 9 120mm. Personally I would do 9 120mm 500rpm fans. Even though there is nine fans that will be basically inaudible and equivalent to a single 1000rpm fan. using the sound profile of 1 1000rpm fan to cool all that is as good as it is going to get I am afraid.

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    Re: Silent Watercooling request for help

    Actually I'm not sure how OTT that radiator is, because he wants to run it passively, granted I've not much water cooling experience, but just from running normal heatsinks the difference a small amount of air flow from a low rpm fan can make is major.

    As to cooling capacity vs heat sources and using multiple loops to separate gpu and cpu, it's not so much about how much heat the radiator can remove from the system but the delta temperatures at each block.
    Something that's often overlooked by people is that the delta increases as the input temperature decreases (this goes for both water in a block and air temperature in both air coolers and radiators) the amount the delta changes does vary, a 1 degree increase in input can result in a 1 degree increase in delta or as little at a 0.1 degree increase in delta.
    That and of course higher input temperatures means higher temperatures in the blocks.

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    Re: Silent Watercooling request for help

    OK, I've no real idea about pumps TBH, but I've been looking at a DDC3.2 based pump (Swiftech MCP35X), a D5 based pump (no idea which brand is best or even if they differ between brands) and the Aquastream XT Ultra.

    As I'm after complete silence, I assume I should get a quiet pump and mount it either via a sponge thingy or suspend it via elastic. So far, that is clear to me.

    What is unclear though, is whether I should be getting a more powerful pump and decreasing the voltage to make it quieter, or whether I should go for a pump which is much quieter to begin with (but might not go as quiet as the more powerful one at low speed).

    Out of the three style pumps: which is the quietest overall? Obviously, I'm not going to run the pump at full speed whichever one I get.

    Thoughts?

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    Re: Silent Watercooling request for help

    depending on your budget my pumps are mounted on rubber motor mounts and controlled (idle 8v) by the koolance TMS card.

    if you do go down that path it makes for a very quiet rig.

    Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack
    off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.

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    Re: Silent Watercooling request for help

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraz View Post
    Just plain ol' water and pt-nuke (a biocide to prevent algae - just add a few drops) for me. Definitely don't get those "pre-mix" coloured liquids, as they break-down leaving weird slimy deposits in all your kit. Very bad news indeed.
    I've not seen conclusive evidence that any method (aside from regularly changing distilled water kept in the dark) is 100% "clean". There are posts on the Net for problems with PT Nuke, Silver Coils and of course the apparent worse offender, coloured premix. There seem to be a lot of factors relating to the exact combination of components (materials, flow strength, etc.)

    To the OP, it's probably worth checking whatever liquid solution you use after 6-12 months to see if it's performing as expected, ie. No gunk build up.

    Here's a link to an older post from another Hexus member showing some build up from water + silver kill coil: http://forums.hexus.net/chassis-mods...ded-build.html.

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    Lovely chap dangel's Avatar
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    Re: Silent Watercooling request for help

    Quote Originally Posted by GoNz0 View Post
    the problem with the pump is the housing is plastic and the impellers floating and not connected to the coils that get hot (with the circuit board)

    the cooling of the electrics is very limited, so much that mine have been housed over one of the inlet fans with a probe on each pump base that triggers the inlet to speed up if they get above 40 degrees (thanks to the koolance TMS card)

    koolance even sell a heatsink that replaces the housing on the pmp-400 http://koolance.com/index.php?route=...roduct_id=1058 to keep temps down.
    My Vario seems to stay cool (at least it's worked for ~3 years like this) but I don't run it at full speed. The housing has fins and is metallic from memory so perhaps this is why? It sits in the lower bay on my PC so there is a front fan and some very slow airflow over it anyway.





    On Gunk - my water+redline solution has never seen any buildup in either of the two loops i've used it in. I'm due to clean the system out soon as we get a dry evening (some hope!) - for dust that is - but the res. is still clear so I doubt i'll flush the system as well.

    As for passive cooling - yes zero airflow is hard but the only way to know really is to experiment (carefully) and see how you get on. A lot of factors will be involved but assuming it's a not a temperature controlled room you'll have to monitor performance on the 'hottest' day of the year (everything under full load) to know whether you're safe being passive. Since we don't know the total heat to dissipate versus how much a radiator can cope with passively (and the rad is obviously designed with active cooling in mind) it might require some tweaking. Fingers crossed.
    Last edited by dangel; 11-06-2012 at 11:09 AM.
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    Re: Silent Watercooling request for help

    I'm going to start off with many fans and slowly begin disabling them and ramping down speeds of the fans and pump over time to see how quiet I can get it. I doubt I'll get it fully passive, but a few very slow fans will probably be enough to keep it ticking over. It'll be an adventure!

    I've also (almost) completed a final list of components, which I'll post here for your ridicule ;-)

    As for the additive, I was just going to use the following:
    1. basic distilled water
    2. Pulse Modding BioClear PT - 10ml Concentrated Biocide
    3. Pulse Modding Silver Kill Coil

    However, I noticed that EK released an announcement regarding corrosion on their blocks when using silver coils and when using coppoer sulphate based additives (like BioClear PT)... Hmmmm.
    As far as I'm able to ascertain, there isn't actually a huge amount of problems with using these; and the troubles actually came about due to EK's method for nickel plating more than anything else (which they have since changed).

    As many of the components I've selected have Nickel in/on them, should I be on the safe side and ditch the PT and silver coil and go with PHN instead?

    Additional info from a different forum:
    http://www.overclock.net/t/1226474/k...-vs-pt-nuke/10
    Last edited by chrisbreame; 11-06-2012 at 11:55 AM. Reason: added info link

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    Re: Silent Watercooling request for help

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisbreame View Post
    As for the additive, I was just going to use the following:
    1. basic distilled water
    2. Pulse Modding BioClear PT - 10ml Concentrated Biocide
    3. Pulse Modding Silver Kill Coil

    However, I noticed that EK released an announcement regarding corrosion on their blocks when using silver coils and when using coppoer sulphate based additives (like BioClear PT)... Hmmmm.
    As far as I'm able to ascertain, there isn't actually a huge amount of problems with using these; and the troubles actually came about due to EK's method for nickel plating more than anything else (which they have since changed).
    From what I’ve read, unless you really want the nickel look you’re better off sticking with EK copper products or get nickel from another manufacturer. Pretty much everyone except EK are convinced that nickel shouldn’t be impacted by silver or PT Nuke if it’s been plated properly.

    It seems that long term use of silver kill coils can result in some build up. Still better than the gunk and junk you can get from coloured pre-mix but not perfect. I’ve never tried the water wetter solution but it’s popular and has good feedback.

    EDIT: I have an EK waterbolck and full GPU cover but in plain copper + plexi.

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    Re: Silent Watercooling request for help

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisbreame View Post
    However, I noticed that EK released an announcement regarding corrosion on their blocks when using silver coils and when using coppoer sulphate based additives (like BioClear PT)... Hmmmm.
    Unfortunately, life is very tenacious... Just accept that you're going to have to change the water in your loop every so often. Once a year has done me fine. I've never had gunk building up, just a minor discolouration of the pipes - a very slight greenish tint. I changed all the pipes recently, so even that's gone now. Having cold cathode lights or a windowed case will make things a lot worse, obviously.

    As to corrosion... I wouldn't worry about it too much. My old GPU block got a bit discoloured after two years, and this was in a loop with copper, and EK nickel fittings and Copper Sulphate PT nuke. But really, it was nothing serious at all. I suppose the only real worry is if you end up keeping your radiator for absolutely years and years. All the other metal bits will get changed as you upgrade your GPU/CPU, etc.

    If you're interested in the chemistry, look up galvanic corrosion. Copper and nickel are good together, as their anodic indices are close. Mixing silver with copper/nickel should in theory result in more corrosion... in practice, it probably just doesn't matter on the timescales less than at least 5 years, I'd have thought.

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    Re: Silent Watercooling request for help

    I probably ran my old loop for about five years - the pipes do harden and discolour over time and you will need to replace them once in a while. As Fraz says you will be replacing things on a regular basis anyway and that's always a good time to flush the system or replace a pipe (or two). I've certainly never seen a block need cleaning or replacing within it's useful lifetime. A rad can stick around for much longer, as can a pump and res etc. In addition fans will need a good clean once in a while and (if like mine are atm) they're getting a bit noisier with age, replacing too. I've got a set of gentle typhoons to go on as part of my housekeeping (they're also very good as radiator fans and the PA120.3 rad is very good with low RPM fans anyway). I guess i'd worry more about longevity of my rad if it was expensive - but really a replacement is about the same cost as a GPU block anyway.
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    Re: Silent Watercooling request for help

    All very good advice, thanks guys.

    One last thing before I post my final shopping list:
    How on earth do I keep dust from getting into the fans/rad? There doesn't seem to be a dust filter for this rad. Uh?? Why oh why not?? Same with the huge Phobya ones!

    Really, the only way I can possibly see of keeping the dust out is to buy one of the MO-RA3 'Bunde' fan covers and get some massive sheet of dust filter stuff and sandwich it in there. Otherwise it'll be a dust-fest in a matter of days :-/

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    Re: Silent Watercooling request for help

    Oh, and another thing which I really should've looked at before this point...

    I can't seem to find any information regarding the spacing of the fan holes on the MO-RA3 9x140. With the exception of the Phobya 140mm fans, all the 140mm fans I can find on the internet appear to have 120mm holes. It confuses me and makes me wonder what will fit... I can only guess that the hole spacing is larger (ie. like the Phobya fans).

    Maybe I should go for the 9x120, as I know I like the Thermalright TY-140s and I know that the holes are in the right place (even though the fans themselves might not fit due to their increased size...)

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    Re: Silent Watercooling request for help

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisbreame View Post
    All very good advice, thanks guys.

    One last thing before I post my final shopping list:
    How on earth do I keep dust from getting into the fans/rad? There doesn't seem to be a dust filter for this rad. Uh?? Why oh why not?? Same with the huge Phobya ones!

    Really, the only way I can possibly see of keeping the dust out is to buy one of the MO-RA3 'Bunde' fan covers and get some massive sheet of dust filter stuff and sandwich it in there. Otherwise it'll be a dust-fest in a matter of days :-/
    Seeing as my rad is earthed and external I simply vacuum it out with a bristle attachment. It's not too bad I probably do this once in two weeks or so. Either the filter or the rad will clog so it makes little difference in practice.
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    Re: Silent Watercooling request for help

    OK, here's my list!
    Please pull it apart and tell me what a total noob I'm being :-D

    Radiator:
    MO-RA3 9x140 Pro
    Watercool MO-RA3 foot POM
    many Thermalright TY-140 fans (which may not actually fit...)

    Blocks:
    2x Watercool Heatkiller® GPU-X³ for GTX580
    Koolance CPU-370
    Alphacool HF 14 for northbridge
    Enzotech CNB-S1L for southbridge
    Phobya HeGrease

    Hose:
    XSPC 1/2 ID, 3/4 OD High Flex 2m (Retail Coil) - Clear

    Resevoir:
    Alphacool HF 38 Cape Cyclone 250 V.2

    Fittings:
    2x VL3N-M13-19S (male ones for the hoses going to/from the rad)
    2x VL3N-FG (female ones for the rad)
    2x Monsoon 1/2"ID 3/4"OD Compression Fitting 6 Pack - Black Chrome
    Phobya Variable SLI/Crossfire VID Connection Nipple G1/4" 3 Slot - Black Nickel

    Coolant:
    Pulse Modding Silver Kill Coil (Anti Algae)
    Pulse Modding BioClear PT - 10ml Concentrated Biocide
    Alphacool Ultra Pure Water 1000ml

    Pump:
    Aquacomputer Aquastream XT USB 12V Pump- Ultra Version
    Eheim Bundle In/Out-Adapter for 1046 - black nickel
    Aquacomputer Shoggy Sandwich - Version 2.0

    Monitoring:
    Aquacomputer Temperature Sensor Internal/External Thread G1/4 For Aquaero, Aquastream XT And Aquaduct
    Aquacomputer Aquaero 5 LT USB Fan Controller


    The one thing I'm starting to have doubts about is the radiator. No no no no, I don't want to downsize (silly!), I was just wondering whether I should get the 4x180 instead of the 9x140? Fewer big slow fans better/quieter than more 140mm fans?
    Also, as I'm not sure what fans will actually fit on the 9x140, it'll hinder me actually buying it.

    Tell me your thoughts please

    P.S. Just added it up roughly - should be about £800 plus any shipping fees. hehehehhe

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