Recent Bad Ebuyer Experience

[Saracen]

If the delivery options depend on the payment method, then they ought to :-

a) not allow payment methods incompatible with selected delivery option, or

b) select delivery method before payment options, or

c) best option, IMHO, if you select a payment method than requires a different delivery method, bring it EXPLICITLY to the buyer's attention, point out the problem and require them to either change payment method or EXPLICITLY accept the higher charge.

Any solution is, for me, acceptable providing the person paying the bill is kept clearly informed and is the one that gets to decide what he'll pay for. That's why I object to Scansure. The service is fine, if people want it, and select it. But for such a non-refundable charge, it is NOT acceptable to add it and expect the buyer to just lump it if he doesn't notice and take it off.

[Andaho]

So after this rant, I posted this message to ebuyer:

Thank you for your very quick replies. I am, quite frankly, amazed that
you acknowledge that your checkout system did not inform me that paying by
paypal would incur an extra charge, and also that your terms and conditions
do not state it, yet you still do not offer to refund the difference of
£3.48.

I look forward to receiving this order, but I will be unlikely to use
ebuyer in the future. I could have ordered ram from scan.co.uk cheaper,
and received free next day delivery (thanks to a special offer forum
membership).

I will also share this experience on all of the tech forums I am a member
of.

Thank you.

After that, they respond to say:

Dear Andrew Hogg,

Thank you for your response.

Our checkout system does not show the extra charge as it is paypal that
apply this due to their delivery requirements so is only shown when you go
to paypal to review the order and elect to submit payment.

Due to the annoyance caused EBuyer will refund the overcharge as a goodwill
gesture on this occasion, once the order has been invoiced. I hope this
helps.


Kind Regards,

Sarah

Ebuyer.com
Customer Support Team

So yeah, they blame PayPal for adding the extra charge - a bit of a pathetic excuse if you ask me. - And just to make it clear, I don't care one bit about the few £s, but how they added this hidden charge... It's not paypal that added the charge, it's them because they offer paypal as a payment option but fail to mention that you can't use royal mail delivery when paying by paypal.

But at least after complaining so much (actually only after 'bribing' them by saying I will share my experience on forums) they do eventually say as a goodwill gesture they will refund the difference.

Hmmm, I'm still not impressed with their customer service, how they side-step the problem and only mildly acknowledge the problem with their checkout.

[Thorsson]

It is an issue that revolves around low price items and Paypal, therefore it's probably not a large part of their turnover; however this is no excuse - they should at least explicitly state that Royal Mail is not available with Paypal.

[jim]

Well, sort of a good ending at least. I would hope they'd instigate a more permanent solution asap, but who knows.

[Saracen]

Well, disappointing if you ask me. Firstly, it took eBuyer long enough to come up with the offer to cover the charge they seem to be blaming on PayPal. But unless I'm missing something (which is perfectly possible) it's eBuyer selling the goods, eBuyer organising the delivery and shipping the goods, and PayPal just providing a payment mechanism.

So Andaho, can you clarify for me, just to be explicitly clear - who added the extra charge, eBuyer or PayPal? If I understand you correctly, it's eBuyer.

Secondly, for me at least, the refund of the extra is welcome, it's still missing the point, because it always was about the principle, not the £2 (or whatever). And that's hardly covered by the latest instalment in the story.

[Andaho]

Well, disappointing if you ask me. Firstly, it took eBuyer long enough to come up with the offer to cover the charge they seem to be blaming on PayPal. But unless I'm missing something (which is perfectly possible) it's eBuyer selling the goods, eBuyer organising the delivery and shipping the goods, and PayPal just providing a payment mechanism.

So Andaho, can you clarify for me, just to be explicitly clear - who added the extra charge, eBuyer or PayPal? If I understand you correctly, it's eBuyer.

I agree. It is eBuyer selling and sending the product, and they are deciding to automatically change any royal mail deliveries to parcel force in order to comply with PayPal's merchant protection, and not giving any warning or notification of any extra delivery charge whatsoever.

eBuyer customer service seem to barely recognise that their checkout is at fault, and just 'thank me for my feedback re: the checkout process'. I'm not impressed with how they handled my complaint at all... They should be thanking me for finding an error in their system, saying they are looking into fixing it ASAP, and offering to refund the difference from the first message I sent them. - But instead they blame it on PayPal and say they will refund the difference as a 'gesture of goodwill'.

I don't often use PayPal to pay for stuff from trustworthy/well-known sites, but I was ordering it after 1am and on my way to bed, so having been given the option to use paypal, I did, to save time and not have to enter my card details. - But I don't think it is PayPal at fault at all.

Secondly, for me at least, the refund of the extra is welcome, it's still missing the point, because it always was about the principle, not the £2 (or whatever). And that's hardly covered by the latest instalment in the story.

I know! But looking forward now; I've had my rant, I've warned others of this sneaky hidden charge, I should receive my RAM tomorrow, and in the future I'll avoid eBuyer for basic items that I can get anywhere else.

I just wish I had a local IT supplier I could go to like you But around where I live (in Devon), I only have a choice of PC World or a few independent IT repair shops that charge over the roof for unbranded generic stock lol.

[Saracen]

So, just to be absolutely clear, PayPal's merchant protection imposes some criteria, including that deliveries must be signed for, yes?

Then along you come, order some RAM from eBuyer, select standard RM delivery in eBuyer's checkout. So far, so good.

But then, you say "Pay by PayPal please", and eBuyer's checkout then adjusts to a signed-for delivery service, which costs more, so their cart adjusts to the new delivery method, which is not what you selected, charges you for it and doesn't EXPLICITLY get you to agree to the changed dellivery method, or price.

Then when you confirm, it passes the transaction to PayPal for you to authorise payment, at the increased cost?


If that is the process, then it's absolutely, as far as I'm concerned, down to eBuyer and their attitude stinks, notwithstanding their "goodwill" gesture. My view is that it is not goodwill at all, but them correcting their mistake due to a fault with their checkout system which either allowed a payment method that was not valid with that delivery method, or failed to get your explicit approval for a change in delivery method from the one you'd specified.

But .... if eBuyer passed the transaction to PayPal with the value set to what you'd originally selected, and PayPal added the extra cost, then it's a bit more complex. But, to my way of thinking, it's still largely down to eBuyer because, after all, you are ordering from eBuyer, not PayPal. It's their checkout system, and it ought to warn you that that payment method will incur extra costs because the delivery method will have to change.

Also, presumably, the "merchant protection" in question protects eBuyer from fraud, which is why PayPal impose conditions, including signed-for delivery?

If so, then I understand why eBuyer want that protection, and why PayPal have conditions for it to be available to eBuyer. I don't have any problem with that, and I'm sure, from what you've said, you don't either. But if eBuyer, quite sensibly, want that protection, then they either ought to disable RM delivery and require YOU to select an alternate delivery method, or warn you of tne change and get specific approval for the change in delivery, or (and it seems unlikely) change to a more secure delivery method and eat the cost themselves .... like a car hire company will upgrade your car if they haven't got what you ordered when you arrive to collect, at no charge.

However you cut it, this seems like a very high-handed attitude from eBuyer, and a very lacklustre response, even now, from customer service. Frankly, were it me, I'd find the "goodwill gesture" downright offensive because it STILL. implies the fault is yours but they're being kind enough to give you the pound or two back, which both misses the point that it's not about the money, and ignores the point that it's about process.

All this assumes, of course, that the situation is as you say, and that I've understood you correctly.

I had thought better of eBuyer than that, which is why I find this all so disappointing. But it sure wouldn't be the first time a company I had thought had a good attitude got a bit arrogant, especially as they grew. Scansure would be a classic example, but even in the world of computer bits, far from the first.

One more, it seems, to be added to my "watch like a hawk if I order" list.

[flearider]

bought 2 flash drives for my mum for xmas tried them out befor giving them to her ...now you have to phone for some reason this i will not do .. it's like charging extra for there mistake ..

i've just recived a 16gb and a 32 gb and am getting 9.88mbs transfer
speed are these old stock they are no where near the stated speeds on your
web site ..i run a crosshair v pc 4.1ghz usb 3
i bought these as a christmas present and now will be sending them back to
you as they are falsely advertised ..

plz send me a prepaid envelope the order no was rder xxxxxxxxxx



Simon
21/12/2012 17:03

Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,

Thank you for contacting our Customer Support Team.

I'm sorry to hear there is a problem with your item, I would suggest in
returning the item for a replacement. You can raise a return through the
ebuyer.com website by logging into your account and selecting returns
online. This will then give you a choice of invoices to select through,
once you locate the invoice with the item you are having problems with it
allows you to raise a return on the item.

If you have any problems raising the return please do not hesitate to
contact me, alternatively you can contact our customer services team on
0871 521 33 00 who will be able to assist.

Kind Regards,

Simon

Ebuyer.com
Customer Support Team



xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
07/01/2013 11:08

ok so you send me a rma number then tell me to phone a number that will
cost me up to £5 to use ..i have now sent you 3 emails ?refusing to
phone the number and be charged for your mistakes ..
all i want is the address to send these back .. if i do not get the adrress
..i will simply phone my bank and have the charge refunded ..
the item was falsely advertised
plz either send a email with the address or a prepaid envelope ..
thx for your time ..



Simon
07/01/2013 17:46

Dear xxxxxxxxxxxx,

Thank you for your response.

The number provided in the email is a national rate number which is charged
at 3p per minute, unfortunately our returns team would need to approve the
return and give you the details regarding how to send the item back to
ourselves. Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience or annoyance
caused as a result of this matter.

Kind Regards,

Simon

Ebuyer.com
Customer Support Team



xxxxxxxx
15/01/2013 15:46

hi ..
3p pm is not from a mobile phone number ..
here somthing that you may of missed .. you lied about the items speed ..
http://www.kingmax.com/en-global/pro...ct/Model/PD-09
‧Interface: USB 3.0
‧Capacity: 4GB/ 8GB/16GB/32GB
‧Performance: 50-66MB/s (Read) ; 7-11MB/s (Write)
‧Size: 62 x 17 x 8 mm
‧Color: pink \ mist grey

so i will give you one more chance to send me your returns address or i'll
just have the funds reversed ..
or/and i will contact trading standards ..
quiet simple to do ..
yours xxxxxxxx ..



Simon
15/01/2013 16:02

Dear xxxxxxxx

Thank you for your response.

I can confirm the RMA has been approved in which once the units has come
back to ourselves we will test the units in which once found faulty they
will be refunded back to you. If you have any further questions or queries
in the mean time please don't hesitate in contacting us.

Kind Regards,

Simon

simples really .. just contact trading standards

[jimbouk]

So back to the original query. They do show you the final price, including a breakdown of delivery costs, which you didn't read (fair enough I guess it could have been in bold and flashing) but did confirm and agree to. You raised a concern about the process, they said it would be looked into. When you ask for a refund, they provide it. All responses are timely. Seriously people, bandwagon, jumping on, no?

flearider: A freepost returns envelope is not standard industry practice nor required - if they have sent you faulty goods then the cost of you posting the item back will be refunded. Why are you insisting that you must all them when a return can be raise through the website as mentioned in the first reply?

[Andaho]

They do show you the final price, including a breakdown of delivery costs, which you didn't read (fair enough I guess it could have been in bold and flashing) but did confirm and agree to.

No, they did not show the final price including a breakdown of delivery costs.

And this should also further clarify things for you Saracen:

After selecting the delivery method, the next step is selecting payment... On the top of the page it shows the order total, and below it is buttons for payment... When you click on the PayPal button, it immediately changes the total price at the top of the page, and opens a dialogue box lower down on the page with info about paypal and a button to click to go to paypal's checkout. - It does not give any breakdown of delivery charges, or inform you that the price has gone up - The total at the top of the page just discreetly changes while your attention is drawn to the bottom of the page.

- I believe it's quite normal for a person to start at the top of the page and read down... I read the total price and it was correct, then I look further down the page, click paypal, and then click the button to go to paypal's checkout. Then yes, PayPal do display the total to pay, but as I already said, I wasn't paying much attention to how much the RAM cost, but I still believed I was paying only £1.51 for delivery.

As for flearider's situation, I have no comment, and will stick to talking about my own experience

[jimbouk]

I read the total price and it was correct, then I look further down the page, click paypal, and then click the button to go to paypal's checkout. Then yes, PayPal do display the total to pay, but as I already said, I wasn't paying much attention to how much the RAM cost, but I still believed I was paying only £1.51 for delivery.

Then once you have logged in to PayPal it takes you back to Ebuyer with a summary page before you confirm the purchase...

[DeludedGuy]

No, they did not show the final price including a breakdown of delivery costs.

And this should also further clarify things for you Saracen:

After selecting the delivery method, the next step is selecting payment... On the top of the page it shows the order total, and below it is buttons for payment... When you click on the PayPal button, it immediately changes the total price at the top of the page, and opens a dialogue box lower down on the page with info about paypal and a button to click to go to paypal's checkout. - It does not give any breakdown of delivery charges, or inform you that the price has gone up - The total at the top of the page just discreetly changes while your attention is drawn to the bottom of the page.

- I believe it's quite normal for a person to start at the top of the page and read down... I read the total price and it was correct, then I look further down the page, click paypal, and then click the button to go to paypal's checkout. Then yes, PayPal do display the total to pay, but as I already said, I wasn't paying much attention to how much the RAM cost, but I still believed I was paying only £1.51 for delivery.

As for flearider's situation, I have no comment, and will stick to talking about my own experience

You are making no sense. You are stating they failed to show a final price, when in fact they do, twice! They just didn't break it down for you.

This isn't a dig but the fact you have admitted to be too lazy to use a different payment method and then failed to see the final price TWICE on two different pages makes me have no sympathy for you, ebuyer had no reason to refund you anything, if anything it shows how good they are to their customers.

[Andaho]

You are making no sense. You are stating they failed to show a final price, when in fact they do, twice! They just didn't break it down for you.

This isn't a dig but the fact you have admitted to be too lazy to use a different payment method and then failed to see the final price TWICE on two different pages makes me have no sympathy for you, ebuyer had no reason to refund you anything, if anything it shows how good they are to their customers.

I have never stated that they failed to show a final price. - I was complaining about how I selected delivery for £1.51 and automatically, with no notification or warning, they changed it to £4.99 delivery price.

And they have just sent a refund through paypal of £3.18 - when the actual difference was £3.48... So they don't even get that bit right... But yes, I appreciate how fast their customer service is, but I dislike how they barely acknowledge there was a problem, and just fob it off saying it is PayPal's fault.

Anyway, My rant is long overdue finished Everyone has their own opinion on how they expect to be treated as a customer (But I'm pretty sure that they are not following trading standards laws by automatically changing the price without telling you they are doing it), I've moved on, so I have nothing further so say on the matter.

[DeludedGuy]

I have never stated that they failed to show a final price. - I was complaining about how I selected delivery for £1.51 and automatically, with no notification or warning, they changed it to £4.99 delivery price.

And they have just sent a refund through paypal of £3.18 - when the actual difference was £3.48... So they don't even get that bit right... But yes, I appreciate how fast their customer service is, but I dislike how they barely acknowledge there was a problem, and just fob it off saying it is PayPal's fault.

Anyway, My rant is long overdue finished Everyone has their own opinion on how they expect to be treated as a customer (But I'm pretty sure that they are not following trading standards laws by automatically changing the price without telling you they are doing it), I've moved on, so I have nothing further so say on the matter.

But they did tell you, twice, on two different pages before you clicked the pay button.

[Saracen]

But they did tell you, twice, on two different pages before you clicked the pay button.

The objection, as I understand it, is that you select a delivery method, costing £x.

Then, you select a payment method, and as a result, both the delivery method and the cost are simply changed for you. Yes, the total updates, but if you aren't watching, you might well not notice.

All it needs is a dialog box to appear when you select PayPal IF normal RM delivery was selected, saying something like "that payment method is incompatible with your selected delivery option. Do you wish the delivery method to be updated (at additional cost) or do you wish to use a different payment method".

The complaint, as I understand it, is that having selected the delivery method, it's changed for you and extra cost incurred without the buyer being told.

If, as part of a purchase process, you select something, it should not then EVER be just changed, and extra cost incurred, without you agreeing explicitly. It should never be done by something just updating and you get to pay for it if you don't notice.

Imagine you buy a few bits of groceries in a supermarket, and ask for a free plastic bag. The shop say yes, sure. Then, decide themselves to put it in a canvas bag because they're out of free plastic ones, and they then charge your credit card an extra £5. Would you be happy if they then said .... "but the customer display clearly showed the extra £5. Didn't you notice it?"

Or would you expect them to say "We're out of free bags, sir. Would you like a canvas one, at £5?"

You might prefer to just carry your purchases yourself, or maybe you could do with a canvas bag anyway. Either way, it should be YOUR decision to add to your purchases, when you are the one paying for it, not have a shop do it for you if you don't spot what they did.

[Andaho]

Exactly my point Saracen, love your metaphor of the carrier bags - exactly