DIY Watercooling. 101. the Heatercore.

[funnelhead]

HIHIHIHIHIHIHIHHII there Guys. ok. Ive just done a computer favour for a friend of my fathers and sorted out his 2 daughters computers. Turns out they BOTH had an AOL account on the SAME telephone line. ie. 2 X £15.99 a month, for no good reason whatsoever.


Anyway this man is a mechanic that specialises in car restorations, so he KNOWS his scrap merchants, and i want to shoulder my way into Watercooling. So i figure its time to grab myself a heatercore. The question is...

Is there a particular type/brand/design of heatercore that is above all? Should i be telling him to look out for a particular something? What metal should i be looking out for or avoiding? oxidisaton??

I take it whatever i find i shall have to clean it and solder barbs to it.... 1/2 inch i take it...


blah blah ANyONE who knows ANYTHING about watercooling, particularly with a heatercore, flex those fingers and destroy the ignorance that pervades this post.

thankyou everyone!

f

[mad_allan]

There are many people out there with NOVA heatercores, seem to do the job nicely.

With regards to barbs, you'll need to know what bards the rest of your components will have to.

[Rave]

Corrosion will occur if you use an aluminium rad with a copper waterblock. Antifreeze should prevent it though. Otherwise, I'm as interested as you are in the details.

Rich :¬)

[SilentDeath]

I have two such nova heatercores Unfortunatly they are VERY wide. Apart fromthat they are almost perfect, so look for the same sort of thing, but smaller.
They only just fit the pc70 and thats after much cutting of the mobo tray so they can sit on the bottom sucking air upwards.

You want :

To aviod anything aluminuim - corrodes really easly when in mixed systems, any from a car arnt going to be in great condition and may not last long imo. In a pc its fine, as the metals are not in physical contant,galvanic corrosion is extreemly slow, but then think about a car system that mixes all kinds of crap - steel, alu, brass, and several other metals, probably for a period of 15 years. theres not going to be much left inside...

Brass. Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc, which has worse propertys than copper, but is a lot stronger. Heatercores are usually quite fragile, becuase of the thin metal they are made from, so brass is a better choice. I dont acctually know if any are made from copper. A dirty oxidised brass heatercore,will look orangy as if it was really a copper h/c, expect them all to be brass

Aviod ones with visible pipes running up and down them. Theres arnt too great performers. You want one that has corrigated brass fins. Heres a pic of mine to show what I mean:
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/kb...rcore2xfan.JPG
There are no pipes, the water travels through pairs of corrigated brass joined together.

Heatercores often look crappy, and they also have no shroud. You should make something like this:
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/kbn2k3-rads.jpg
Originally I made it from card and duct tape, but then about a year later Idecided I would do it properly with aluminuim, superglue, sillicone sealant, and 4 squares of plastic

Most brass heatercores will also have brass header tanks and brass piping - not barbs.
I found it to be ~15-17mm on mine, cant remember exactly but you should MEASURE it, as its not always standard with copper piping and fittings that you can buy from a diy shop - mine wasnt. It took me quite a while to get a solution for this, I had to anneal some copper to make it soft, and hit it on without damaging the other side, then solder it all up.
You dont need to bother with that, you can cut the pipe to length and just slide some tubing over - afterall thats all im doing with the copper. I had to extend them asI cut them too short, the tubing fell off once!! (even though I used worm drive clips, which you must use on every joint anyway!)

You should be able to solder 1/4" BSPT fittings into the pipe (aka 1/2" barbs) which is the best way if you want barbs.



To clean them, because they always are dirty inside and out, start by connecting it to your bath's cold tap. Use you hand if you must to connect it with tubing (v cold!!!).This will flush most of the crap out, which will mostly be small lumps of iron and other corroded metals. I recommend you put the outlet to a bucket, so you dontget crap all over your bath, wait till the particles sink then pout the water off, then put the remaining crap in the bin.

To clean the outside, start with schotchbright, which is those slightly abrasive green or brown pads you usually have by the sink in kitchen. After its all shiny put on some brasso to make it more shiny.

[funnelhead]

Cheers Silentdeath! Brilliant post, and i appreciate it. Rave and mad_allen too!

A wide Rad shouldnt be a problem for me as ive got a full tower chieftec. I suppose i could rotate it and have it blowing out the side....

Exactly how wide is wide? could you give yours a tickle with a ruler to give me an idea? Would be much appreciated!

Is the nova Rad all brass then?? I cant tell from the photos what colour it is? Since i wont be there at the Rads choosing, ill have to give the guy a couple of car names and cross my fingers.

Cheers everyone! Fill my empty head up with water knowledge!

f

[SilentDeath]

190-200mm wide, cant get an exact measurement,but its wider than most cases!


forums.procooling.com has plentyof info about rads.

[funnelhead]

Well i had a word with my 'guy' today. Says he should be able to get me an all-brass and refurbished core for =£15ish.

Now all i need is the waterblock, res, pump, tubing, clamps, additive, and distilled water.


easy

lol.

question:

given that i have a full tower, 6 bay chieftec, should i get a bayres? Or are they sheet if i mount the core at the top of my case?

[Byron]

Yeah, just get a DD Rez (the one that looks like a cylinder)...and mount it on top of the case

[SilentDeath]

For res I went for a criticool 6", its a good res but you may have to make a mount for it. I would aviod the bayres, but any other should be good, the DD one looks almost exactly the same...
Why do you want the core at the top? its probably the worst place to put it becuase:
It will collect air and be almost impossible to remove it without turning the case upsidown.
If its above the res, then your res will need to be sealed at all times, or water will be flowing out of it..
You have to cut horrible looking blowholes in the top of your case - even if you do it well, I still think they look bad.


For pump, definatly have a look at the liang D4 - which is the one dangerden have rebranded.
Its a great pump in every way, except it makes a slight high pitched hum, but its not that noticable. Having a good psu is a good idea, becuase the pumps hum will change with small voltage drops so you want a solid 12v rail.
Dont get an eheim, they are overpriced and worse than the hydor equivalant in performance.
The great thing about 12v pumps is they have higher torque motors, that run at slower rpm, so they can push at higher pressure - the flow rate wont drop as much when restriction is placed infront of them. They also use less power, and are much smaller, and doesnt matter if they get a bit wet - no loud bangs
Theres also a c-systems 12v pump which I think would be quite good.

For clamps, you need the worm drive type, the plastic clips are rubbish.

For additive, try to get some zerex. I would aviod water wetter becuase of the smell!

In mine I use a biocide - forgot the name, but its what we use at work to prevent legionairs disease and algy etc.. from growing, and it seems to be very effective and also gives the water a very slight green/blue colour.
I also added some purple ice, may aswell use it up... It probably helps reduce surface tension a bit, and Ive not had any problems with corrosion yet... (the D4 has a annodised aluminuim impeller, when I last looked, it was still in perfect condition, no corrosion atall).

These pics show how Ive got mine. Second pic is one I took just now.
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/kb...tercooling.jpg
http://server2.uploadit.org/files/kbn2k3-Image006.jpg


edit: looking at your sig, watercooling should give a lot more overclocking
The 9700 should reach ~450 on core, and youve already got a good mem overclock for it. If you wernt intending to get a gpu block, I think you'd be suprised how easy it is to make a good performing block with just copper pipe and a peice of copper bar, that was how I made my first block Total cost was about £5..

The 2500-m would probably get 2.7ghz with more voltage, they should be ok with 1.9-2v, shoudlnt they my 1700+ is more than happy with 2.1v.

What blocks are you getting?

[funnelhead]

not too sure about the blocks yet - might be getting a 2nd hand maze 4 for about £18...

As for Gpu - well i wasnt gonna get one at first.....but maybe i will I could do with the extra overclock - i'm not upgrading till they put soundstorm back in also I've got an 80W pelt in a drawer somewhere - might be ideal for a graphics card! Lol not gonna play with that till ive had H20 going for a season though...

As for pump - well i really want my comp as silent as poss as it will be on 24/7 and if my GF notices it (shes moving in in 2 weeks), she's liable to turn it off..... so what you said about a little whine.....kinda puts me off. Still no judgement cast till reviews are read - off i go!

(thanks again silentdeath!)

[funnelhead]

Going for silence, it looks like either the eheim 1046, Hydor L20 or the C-systems get the nod. Of course they're silent cos they're crap So a low resistence setup is in order, and i think cpu / gpu blocks, half inch tubing and a heatercore shouldnt be toooo much to push..

Course the L20 gets bad points for not being 12v. bummer. £25

the Eheim 1046 is £25, but not sure about performance.

then the Eheim 1048 is £35, but is the size of a cat. a big cat. and is not 12v.

the c-systems is £32 and performance does look good.... this is getting my gut feeling at the mo....

[skattrd]

Whats wrong with a bayres? I was contemplating adding one to my system.

Curently I have no res as such, just a sealed pump/res box which is a pain to fill.

[SilentDeath]

Dont get a maze4 unless you want to use a TEC on it - which imo isnt worth the effort..
Maze4 spreads the cooling over the whole block, so its good for TECs but as cpus have only about 10mm2 of surface area, the cooling needs to be much more concentrated. It should give resonable temps, better than air by a long way, but there are better blocks for same price second hand. Dtek white water, or a RBX/TDX would probably be the best choices of current blocks.

If your interested, I have a block for sale, and heres a pic. Cost me quite a bit to get made (but it was worth it!), and I should probably put more effort into selling it...

*If* your interested in the above block, I could also make you a gpu block similar to my first block, wouldnt take me long or cost me anything, as I have plenty of spare copper to use up. Only thing is, it will need a good lapping, which is something that I just cba to do Stock copper isnt THAT flat, altough with good amount of paste, it will still be better than any air cooler

I would say the laing d4 is bordering on extreemly annoying in terms of niose (over the last few days I havent been listning to music as much... Its not that loud, its just the pitch.
Apart form that its the PERFECT pump and I probably wouldnt hear it if I had the side of my case on... BUT you should definaly look at a 12v pump, 240v pumps are just too inefficent, big, and bad performers. All 12v pumps potentially have the same problem though, its something I need to read up on. I dont think the newer liang or c-system pumps have the same issue...

www.procooling.com - this place has a really good pump roundup, although I think it doesnt include the D4 or newer pumps, it does have the (discontinued) swiftec mpc600, whice is basiclly a low flow version of the d4 (unsure if it whines though!)

[funnelhead]

Cheers on the info on the maze4.... guess i'll keep looking around....why on earth did you have a block custom made? are you just THAT picky? and if it cost you that much, why are you selling it?.

[SilentDeath]

Yes im THAT picky
It didnt cost THAT much (£41.50 each), slightly more than a new dangerden would have.. but thats ok.
I got two, becuase it was cheaper. The second is for sale, although im tempted to w/c my second pc with it.. (an excuse for not bothering to sell it yet.. )

I got it made, so that I could have:
Bigger barbs than normal - 1/2" BSPP -> 3/4" Barb, iirc.
One top, which would be compatable with both AthlonXP and AMD64 mobo mounting holes.
Very low flow restriction (a bit pointless atm as my gpu and nb block are VERY restrictive, one day I will alter them a bit...)
Possibly the most shiny block in the world, as I pollished with 1um diamond paste.
Only two barbs, the dtec WW had one too many, and I didnt want a tdx..

[funnelhead]

Well i opened my door today to find a heatercore and a thankyou note on my matt. Heatercore for free! yay, Now just to find out anything i can about it. It says on the box
(its a brand new one from a vauxhall parts dealer) that its a Vauxhall astra harrison model.

Silentdeath - it looks exactly like yours does, but its got a matt black paint finish. mmmm Does this mean its aluminium? Is there anyway i can test if its brass rather than alu? Looking into the end of a pipe with a torch it LOOKS kinda goldy..... I know aluminium is light, how heavy is brass?

You're right about it being wide - it fits in the top of my case with a mm either side breathing room. If i want it in the bottom then (as well you know) theres gonna have to be a hole where the mobo tray used to be . As ive modded my case to have 2 psu spaces, i might see if i can mount it to the back of my case between the ports and the upper psu spot. It would kep the heat out of my case, but since i'm very accident prone, this might not be the best idea - i'd prolly just knock it off lol.


Those pipes are just over a half-inch - can i just stretch the piping over it and clamp it on? or do i need to solder some barbs on?

Final question: Should i immerse it in paint stripper to ge the paint off? Black is the best radiating colour, but should it be bare?

Anyway thanks for your previous help everybody, esp Silentdeath.

cheers !

edit: extra question! : When ppl talk about half inch piping, are they talking about inner or outer diameter? and are 10mm and 3/8"'s the same??

more cheers!