Since I heard years ago that ~3ghz was the theoretical limit for x86 silicon based processors I've been wondering what would be the replacement.
Although Intel managed to wrangle another 800Mhz out of them, Cell processors sound like they could be the new way forward...
Anyone else reckon Intel/AMD should be worried?Originally Posted by The Register
Actually Intel's P4 was supposed to ramp up a lot better than it did. The long pipeline meant it wouldn't come into its own until the 4ghz range. Thermal issues have put a bit of a damper on that one, however.
I don't think Cell is going to change the world, but I think it's going to be great for the industry. If it's a success, then competition will get fiercer, and that means more progress.
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Does anyone know where heat comes into the equation with the Cell? I mean....is the new architecture really so power efficient that it can run at 4.6GHz and not melt?
Also, do each of the SPEs in the chip run at 4.6GHz, or is that, like, the combined speed?
i've come to the conclusion that Ghz isn't everything. take a look at the P4's vs the new AMD64's...the intel's spout marketing rubbish such as "Fast 3ghz", when next to it, sitting quite happily a touch off 2ghz, is an Athlon64 knocking it sideways and out performing it. Ok, so this is down to chip architecture. very well, AMD have found a way to allow more processes through (I imagine a scenario of a wide pipe compared to a narrow on in intel) and despite the processing 'speed' being lower the sheer volume of traffic is greater and so more gets done faster. and, as noted, producing less temperature is a thing many people look for now - hot PC = Noisey!
so, what if silicon based chips reach a limit? fine, design a new material to accommodate...but will ghz mean much then? what if there's an Athlon128, wll ghz drop again as lots more gets done yet by so many pipelines (just my analogy, not to be confused with gfx stuff) or will it remain the same as today's 64amd's and run even cooler thanks to updated materials and design?
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Well, I think the bandwidth you talk about is definatley the case with the cell processor, as the CPU in the arrangement doesn't actually do any of the processing, it just coordinates things. All the hard work is done by the individual SPEs (of which there are eight in a Cell). Check this out:
"If over clocked sufficiently (over 3.0ghz) and using some very optimised code (SSE assembly), 5 dual core Opterons directly connected via HyperTransport should be able to achieve a similar level of performance in stream processing - as a single Cell.
The PlayStation 3 is expected to have have 4 Cells."
And that's the whole ethic of the Cell, to spread the load.
Thing is, I'm trying not to get too excited about any of this. Remember how much Sony hyped up the 'Emotion Engine' chip for the PS2....what a heap of junk that turned out to be.
The future is lots and lots and lots of old chips all linked together in a cluster... bring back Pentium 1 and the old Cyrix! Thats what I say...
From what I have read the Cell architecture is designed from the ground up as a specialist processor that will exCell (Sorry) at particular tasks. The 8 processing units are vector based (a bit like SSE2 units) and as such are suited to the more streaming/parallel tasks. This is currently the domain of the P4. What the Cell wont do so well is traditional serial complex calculations as this sort of operation will rely heavily on the Power PC based core (Which judging by current reports will be a cut down G5). As such the Cell probably won't find its self in consumer/business desktops any time soon and if it does it may well be as an extension to a more powerful Power PC based chip. X86 shouldn't be threatened as I think the Cell will head for a completely different market (one that it will do very well in). What it will do however is marginalise the PC market until the X86 takes on the best parts of the Cell and we go back to normality.
Thought you might like this taken from the Daily Telegraph (a quality broadsheet)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...08/wchip08.xml
"The chip's specifications have astonished computer experts. The size of a postage stamp, it contains 10 separate processing units, compared to the normal one. That allows the Cell to carry out 10 tasks simultaneously - copying the "grid" system of super computers. It runs at 4 GHz - twice the speed of the Pentium 4 processor."
ROFLMAO - size of a postage stamp- 4Ghz twice the speed of a P4, my a*!e. Journalists eh?
On a more serious note I have found a very well written piece about the Cell here http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cells/Cell0.html
It is quite indepth - an interesting point is taken up in Part 4: Cell Vs the PC which is a good point to have a quick browse.
As discussed, a processor and it's architecture are only as good as the operating system/software able to run on it. Would you buy an FX55 or P4EE if Windows 3.11 was the only available OS?
The cell will certainly shake things up, which is good, but it will take time for an OS and other software to be written for it for the desktop market. I don't think Intel/AMD should be overly concerned for the near future. The x86 PC is still a very versatile machine due to it's software so we will have to wait and see. PC gaming would certainly look to be under threat, especially if a mouse could be used with PS3 for FPS's.
STOP PRESS - Daily Telegraph, Dec 2, 2009. Intel and AMD merge in order to fight competition from "the Cell"
"Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be." Frank Zappa. ----------- "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." Huang Po.----------- "A drowsy line of wasted time bathes my open mind", - Ride.
Hate to rain on your parade but I saw that blachford article a couple of weeks ago on another forum and all the processor 'experts' ripped it to pieces. Apparantly it's a big pile of rubbish.
So how is the Cell processor different in principle to the Transputer, the exciting distributed processing solution that offered a new way forward, but never took off big time? (Different apart from having many processors on a single chip, that is.) Seems to me the problem is the same: the majority of programming algorithms are difficult or impossible to load balance between multiple CPUs.
The die size is pretty damn big on this cell im sure it will be expensive to produce for
a while.
Also i hope that a mouse cant be used in FPS on the PS3 it makes aiming to easy.
At first i couldnt stand using a pad for socom 2 but now i see why its better to use
a pad its more challenging and sorts them from the boys in the skill it takes.
People must have a very short memory. Don't you remember the PS2's emotion engine? Was that not supposed to set the world on fire and have many applications beond consoles? But all we saw was a lackluster console thats not even as good as the cut down PC based Xbox.
Sony are the kings of hype (and the grandmasters of incompatability for that matter). And this is what it is, hype.
And what will we be using in 1 to 2 years when the PS3 comes out? Where will graphics cards etc be then? I bet then even if the PS3 was better than a future PC, it would be a mater of months before PC technology overtakes just like it did when the PS2 came out.
The future (near future anyway) is dual/multi core (like multiple cells), amongest other things.
Wasnt the emotion engine running at only 300 MHz at the time, that wasnt as fast
as intels latest by a long way. I doubt that it will be any more powerful than a PC
you can get when it comes out but I think it will be much closer than before.
Also I believe that its GPU will be based on the next gen of PC gpu that are not out
yet. So not 6800 or 800 series but the next.
da.Guvna - have you got a linky to that forum please. I would like to see what they said about the blanchford article.
TIA
"Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be." Frank Zappa. ----------- "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." Huang Po.----------- "A drowsy line of wasted time bathes my open mind", - Ride.
Actually, I think it runs at just over 200MHz
Iranu, I tried to find the thread for you but I think it's been deleted now. It was on www.evilavatar.com if you want to look yourself but I think they probably delete news threads after an expiration period for housekeeping.
Nearest thing I could find was this thread which VERY briefly mentions "wild speculation from blachford":
http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/sho...highlight=cell
Cheers
I did find some other forums discussing this but they all get very technical very fast.
"Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be." Frank Zappa. ----------- "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." Huang Po.----------- "A drowsy line of wasted time bathes my open mind", - Ride.
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