Critique new PC project please :)

[Paul Adams]

After 3 SFF PCs and a store-bought Athlon64 (socket 754) system I feel like having a go at a DIY system again.

Would like practical feedback on the kit listed - the items are "reasonably" priced so I won't be looking at a 4000+ CPU for example
Things I'm not sure about is if 4x512Mb sticks perform (significantly) better than 2x1Gb - I know that SANDRA has always strongly recommended ECC for large memory modules...


Notes:
- I will not be using SLI, which is good as I won't buy nVidia graphics cards for a long time after the abortive attempt to use a 6800LE
- I want the potential to use 4Gb of memory in the future
- I have a SATA 250Gb disk already and won't be looking at RAID (yet) so no disk is listed
- Mobo has LAN & sound onboard, so I am not looking for either of those
- Will be using the dual input on my 21" CRT and DVI input on my 32" LCD TV, so I don't need a monitor
- I can source a decent dual layer DVD+/- drive locally nearer the purchase time so that is not a requirement either
- I will not be overclocking, stability is king

The only differences in the systems are the memory, graphics & case/PSU as they are lists from 2 suppliers (and I can't be bothered sourcing components from various sources).


System 1:
Motherboard.....Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe
CPU.............Athlon64 3500+ Socket 939
Memory..........2Gb Corsair Value DDR2 4200 (2x1Gb)
Graphics........Asus Radeon X800XL 256MB GDDR3 PCIe
Case............Cooler Master Wave Master (Silver)
PSU.............Cooler Master Real Power 450W
System Cooling..Zalman Reserator-1


System 2:
Motherboard.....Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe
CPU.............Athlon64 3500+ Socket 939
Memory..........2Gb Kingston DDR2 4200 (2x1Gb)
Graphics........Asus X700 Pro PCIe
Case............Silentium T2 (w/350W PSU)
System Cooling..Zalman Reserator-1


Just want to be wary of any "OMG don't that that, they suck!" pitfalls (with qualifications!)

[RDL]

I'm just wondering how you're planning on using DDR2 memory with an Athlon?

Also, sounds not bad, I would be sceptical about the poor PSU in the second case, and X700s aren't really worth it IMO if you are in for serious gaming. What will the needs of this computer be?

[Lu-tze]

given the choice, i would go for number 1. but as you are not going for SLI then you would be better off with an nforce ultra board.

i would go for 2x1gb dual channel, so you can add another 2 gb later.

As RDL said, what are you using the computer for? i would think only workstation applications would want that much RAM. if so, why not build a workstation with xeon/opteron?

[RDL]

I was actually stating that DDR2 memory can't be used in A64s, or any Athlon's for that matter. I have 2gb's in this machine, which is used for some database work and writing emails etc. It really helps, the ocasional games I do play on here fly, and there is no lag ever around the desktop.

The only advantage of the nforce ultra board (correct me if I'm wrong) is more USB ports isn't it? IMO you get plenty already, especially if you have a server.

System 1 does look better.

[Lu-tze]

yes, i also noticed the ddr2 thing but didn't see the point in reiterating. although i acknowldge that more RAM is better, i would have thought that with the extra expense of 2 or 4gb, a greater benefit would be seen with a better processor, quicker hdd, or even quieter fans etc. but again, it does depend on what the pc will be used for.

for the nforce ultra, i think it is worth getting as it is cheaper (by about £20), and also has more slots for upgrading as the asus SLI uses up 3 slots for the SLI setup. as for USB, yeah i agree. who needs 10 ports? i only ever use one at a time.

[iMc]

You might want to check that the mobo that you chose can handle 1gb modules in each slot.

For example my NF2 board can handle double sided RAM in 3 of the slots but only single sided in the forth. Afaik they don't make 1Gb single sided modules, only up to 512Mb. Single sided is harder to source also.

As said above forget SLi unless you are a mad gamer, and if so, get a 6800GT at least so the SLi will be worth while in the future. Current ATi boards do not work in SLi mode, especially on Nvidia motherboards.

Overall system 1 is better, minus the the SLi mobo and with DDR400(PC3200) memory (no faster is required due to you not wanting to overclock).

[StormPC]

SLI boards are a waste unless you are running SLI right now. Future upgrades are a joke in today's computer world. Because of the high speed that PC technology changes it is absurd to by a motherboard with the idea of growing into it. You're better off going with a single PCI-E board if you're not using SLI because by the time you go to SLI the motherboards will likely be better and/or cheaper. If you will use SLI now then buy it now. If not why waste money on it? Everyone should know how rapidly prices drop in the computer hardware world.

[nvening]

i would not bother paying the £40 ood more for the ASUS x800 xl over the powercolour one, as far as i know Powercolour are good now.

[Paul Adams]

Oh, good catch - didn't realise I had clicked DDR2 memory

Checked out the companies again and here are the options for the memory:
TwinMOS 3200 2Gb kit
Corsair 3200 2Gb kit (about 50% more expensive that the TwinMOS)


The computer is going to be an ongoing DIY project that I can add to as time goes by - used for gaming mainly, but will most likely be built with Windows XP64 and have Virtual PC 2004 running on it (hence the heavy memory requirements - it could be running a number of domain controllers virtually).

As for the X700, I put it down as the other company I'm looking at does not appear to stock any PCIe X800 cards for some reason.

Current feeling is to use Komplett(.se) for the following:
CPU.............Athlon64 3500+ Socket 939
Memory..........TwinMOS 3200 2Gb kit
Graphics........Asus Radeon X800XL 256MB GDDR3 PCIe
Case............Cooler Master Wave Master (Silver)
PSU.............Cooler Master Real Power 450W
System Cooling..Zalman Reserator-1


I'll check out nForce4 mobo's - I must admit I just picked that one with SLI just because it had good ratings from Tom's Hardware etc. and Asus don't appear to do another 939 mobo with nForce4.

I used to play with Abit mobo's years ago, maybe I should check out their latest offerings...


Asus X800XL is actually cheaper than the Powercolor X800XL over here.
It was just something around the price I was happy to pay for a component.


Thanks for the feedback all

[Lu-tze]

non SLI:-

http://www.komplett.se/k/ki.asp?sku=307144&cks=SPK
http://www.komplett.se/k/ki.asp?sku=307700&cks=PRL
http://www.komplett.se/k/ki.asp?sku=303748&cks=PRL

although you dont seem to be getting much of a saving.

have you thought of getting a better case? one with 120mm fans and a fan filter like the akasa c62? should run cooler and thus more stable.

if you cant get the x800xl, then the nvidia 6800GT would be a better choice over the x700. i think even the nvidia 6600GT tends to perform better than the x700.

[StormPC]

Actually ASUS does have a non-SLI NF4 board but it's not redily available. You should check out the VIA K8T890 board though, which is available. I've been testing one for a couple of days and it kicks arse!

[RDL]

I agree with lu-tze, the Akasa Eclipse 62 case rocks, I'd have to say it's one of the best on the market, and very aggresively priced. Check it out.

[Paul Adams]

non SLI:-

http://www.komplett.se/k/ki.asp?sku=307144&cks=SPK
http://www.komplett.se/k/ki.asp?sku=307700&cks=PRL
http://www.komplett.se/k/ki.asp?sku=303748&cks=PRL

although you dont seem to be getting much of a saving.

Thanks, they were the ones I was going to have a look at in detail today - I think there are 13 boards at Komplett.se that match "939 nforce4" and once you discount the SLI and AGP boards it becomes a simpler choice.
I've had good experiences with Abit kit in the past so I might lean towards those ones if there is little in it.

have you thought of getting a better case? one with 120mm fans and a fan filter like the akasa c62? should run cooler and thus more stable.

I love the look of the Cooler Master though, and for cooling the CPU (and maybe GPU) I was looking at the Reserator, Komplett don't seem to have that Akasa case you mention either - and I can't seem to find any info on that case so chances of sourcing it are slim.

if you cant get the x800xl, then the nvidia 6800GT would be a better choice over the x700. i think even the nvidia 6600GT tends to perform better than the x700.

Once bitten... I used to love nVidia and earlier Radeons used to give me the creeps (low brightness/gamma by default in some games, poor driver support) but now it's switched around after I tried a 6800LE and had horrible artifacting at random points.
I've had ATI cards in the last 3 machines and they have been perfect so I'd prefer to stick with them I think

[RDL]

The case is easy to find, you can get it from Scan and Overclockers (I think). Look here.

[Paul Adams]

Aha, thanks for the link RDL - looks like that case just can't be sourced in Sweden (and it's not much to look at ).

From Lu-Tze's list I am looking at the specs on the 3 boards suggested:
Abit AN8
Asus A8N (-SLI?) - is this just the non-deluxe version and is still SLI?
MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum


I see what iMc was referring to now about the 1Gb modules being supported in all slots - the MSI board specs page has a huge paragraph about dual-channel config, populating slots 1&3 making it run at 333, and how 4x1Gb = 3Gb total.... scary :/

It doesn't say if I can have D-D-S-S at 400 (so have 2x1Gb double-sided in slots 1&2, and 2x512Mb single-sided in slots 3&4)... anyone know?

[Lu-tze]

the A8N board i posted is the A8N-E. it uses the nforce 4 Ultra chipset which is not SLI. there are 3 main nforce4 chipsets:-

nforce 4 (standard)
nforce 4 Ultra (extra features over the standard)
nforce 4 SLI ( like Ultra but with SLI)

what about this case, also available in black:-
http://www.komplett.se/k/ki.asp?sku=300487&cks=PRL

you might want to check with zalman and see which GPUs their blocks are compatable with. because if you cant get the block to fit an x800xl, then you might want to take a look at some of the passively cooled cards. i assume noise is an issue? if you go with this case, you might also want to buy a fan controller or a pair of zalman fanmates for the case fans.

i am not familiar with the noise output of that psu, but you might want to look around for low noise psus if that is an issue.