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Thread: Upgraded system with gfx card - system cuts-out (power cycles) on heavy gfx load...

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    Question Upgraded system with gfx card - system cuts-out (power cycles) on heavy gfx load...

    Hi,

    Hope someone has a clue as to what's happening with my upgraded rig - hopefully something simple!

    My 10 year-old base rig needed a new GPU, so I slapped in a w/c OC'd GTX 1080 Ti in there (see details below).

    Ever since I've had the new gfx card in there, when playing graphics-hungry games on high or max settings, often the system will suddenly just completely shut down and power cycle... I don't think it's a thermal issue, as the temps on the GPU seem fairly solid at around 45 deg C (as is watercooled with a 120mm quad rad...). Although under-clocking the GPU seems to reduce the frequency/incidence of shutdowns (so could be a power issue).

    The only things I can think of are:
    - Perhaps the GTX 1080 Ti is pulling too much current from the mobo (over the PCI Express bus), and the mobo is shutting down as a safety measure? I couldn't find any settings in the BIOS that controls this - is it a default function?
    - Surely the 1500W PSU isn't shutting down, with the gfx card pulling too much current from the two 6+2 pin PCI Express power cables??
    - Having the 4 120mm fans being powered via the gfx card - is this increasing the demand of the gfx card from the mobo and/or PSU even further - causing the cut-outs?
    - Is the Northbridge on the mobo struggling? I know the gfx card is quite limited with the older PCI-e bus being slow, but that has only seemed to increase the game loading times (as it slowly loads textures over the slow bus into gfx memory, etc.).

    If it isn't one of the above, then I'm not sure what it could be... Any suggestions gratefully received...

    Rig
    -----
    SilverStone ST1500 (1.5kW) Modular Silent PSU
    ASUS Rampage III Extreme mobo
    Intel Core i7-980X Extreme 3.33Ghz
    Corsair 3GB 1600MHz DDR3 CL8 x 4 (12GB)
    UPGRADED -> NVIDIA GTX 1080 Ti (ASUS ROG Strix OC, water cooled, with EK water blocks)
    ASUS Soundcard
    3 x SATA SSDs
    2 x SATA HDDs

    Other notes
    ----------------
    - 2 separate water cooling loops (3x120 rad for CPU, 4x120 rad for GPU, split XSPC reservoir).
    - In-line fluid temperature sensors on water cooling loops connected to temp sensors on mobo (but thermal cut-outs disabled in BIOS)
    - I had to connect my 4 daisy-chained 4-pin 120mm fans on GPU loop quad rad to the fan port on the GTX 1080 Ti, as the Rampage III Extreme only has 3-pin fan connectors

    Thanks in advance,

    - bn

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    Re: Upgraded system with gfx card - system cuts-out (power cycles) on heavy gfx load.

    Hi,

    The 1500W power supply should be able to handle at least 3 x 1080ti's. I don't believe the power limit is the issue.
    Have you got another power supply to test, or can you buy/borrow a cheap 600W+ PSU.

    The power use of the SSD's/HDD's is likely to be less than 50W, unless you're writing/reading them all at the same time, and even then you'd be unlucky to hit 75W.

    The CPU is a bit ancient, the new GPU may be pushing the i7 way beyond it's capabilities. What are the thermals like on the CPU before it crashes?

    Another thing I would look into is the number of fans you have on the daisy chain. IIRC you shouldn't have more than 3 x fans on same header. Could be wrong tho.

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    Re: Upgraded system with gfx card - system cuts-out (power cycles) on heavy gfx load.

    Switch the PSU, there's a good chance that's the issue for one reason or another. Also the main system is woefully underpowered for that GPU. You really should consider upgrading to a Ryzen 3600 or Intel 10400F based system. If you can't stretch that far, even a Ryzen 1600AF would be fine.

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    Re: Upgraded system with gfx card - system cuts-out (power cycles) on heavy gfx load.

    I wouldn't expect the graphics card to be breaching the 75W power limit from the motherboard, but some graphics cards report this separately in tools like GPUz, so you could check it that way.

    Depending on how the the power supply's 12V rails are arranged, you could be tripping over current protection if you're exceeding the current limit on one or more of the rails. See if you can find a manual (online or the paper one) to see how the rails are assigned - it might just be a case of moving some cables about on the modular board, or using e.g. two separate cables rather than daisy-chaining. I'll see if I can find the manual myself in the meantime.

    Edit: Rail distribution guide: https://www.silverstonetek.com/downl...ble_define.pdf

    From the product page: https://www.silverstonetek.com/produ...?pid=226&area=

    having checked that, the current limit on the 12V rails appears to be 25A. In theory, that's just on the border of the 300W or so aftermarket cards (especially overclocked ones) might draw so it's possible it could be tripping, especially if it's all being drawn from the same rail. Try using two separate cables for the PCIe power connectors if you're not already.
    Last edited by watercooled; 15-08-2021 at 09:34 PM.

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    Hi Sirlansalittle,

    Thanks for reply.

    Swapping out the PSU is definitely something to try.

    I'll triple check the CPU thermals, but I'm pretty sure the CPU wasn't maxing out mid-game. I might try running a CPU torture test (e.g. PRIME95), perhaps at the same time as a GPU torture test...

    I am daisy-chaining the 4 120mm fans for my GPU loop quad rad off the header on the GTX 1080 Ti... I'll look at the specs again, and even disconnect one fan (as it doesn't really need four as I'm not running SLI).


    Hi cptwhite,

    Thanks for replying.

    I'll switch out the PSU, at least to exclude it from consideration.

    I know the system is a bit creaky, especially the older PCIe iface, but have only really noticed slower loading times. I know the CPU/PCIe/mem/mobo combo may even reduce my frames by 10-50%, but it's a stepping stone to when I do a big upgrade next year (hopefully when these chip shortages have been sorted out!).


    Hi watercooled,

    Thanks for this, and especially checking the ST1500 specs.

    Yes, I will definitely check the rail distribution... I'm certainly not daisy-chaining the 6+2 pin gfx power connections, and thought that all the PSU PCIe 12v sockets corresponded to the 8 x separate 12v rails... but will double check what the sharing scheme is. I'll do this easy check before swapping the whole PSU out!

    The 4 Noctua NF-F12 iPPC-2000 PWM Heavy Duty industrial cooling fans I have on the quad rad will add another 10W to the load...

    I'll let you know how I get on.

    Thanks,

    bn
    Last edited by kalniel; 16-08-2021 at 08:29 AM.

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    Re: Upgraded system with gfx card - system cuts-out (power cycles) on heavy gfx load.

    Aftermarket GTX1080TI GPUs can pull a decent amount of power,so if its a multi-rail design it might be tripping one of them? Alternatively it might be the GPU is unstable at its current CPU/RAM speeds,so you could try underclocking it a bit too.

    WRT,to the PSUs,I have noticed they are dropped in price quite a bit recently(maybe due to the lack of GPUs?).

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    Hi CAT-5th,

    Yeah, will be checking the rails tomorrow morning, then CPU thermals, GPU proc+mem clocking, and then PSU replacement.

    Thanks,

    bn

    Hi All,

    I've disconnected one of the 4 fans, so now only 3 fans being served by the gfx card fan header (just in case...) - this will do until I rebuild the PC with a mobo that supports 4-pin PWM fan headers!

    I've just checked, and I wasn't daisy-chaining the PCIe power to the gfx card, and have them plugged into separate 12V PCIe rails on the PSU (I'd even spaced them out just in case there was some adjacency issue). The documentation seems to suggest they are all separate rails, so should be fine (might move them to different rails if issues return).

    Checking the individual core temps on the i7-980X under CPU stress test, and some cores are a good 6 degrees hotter than others when idling - probably worth reapplying the thermal paste (it has been over 10 years! I know, lazy me). They still only get up to 46-52 deg C (varying across the cores) in PRIME 95 though (CPUTIN = 48 deg C), and the w/c CPU loop fluid temp stabilises at 32 deg C - I think that's OK. NB temp stabilises at 56 deg C.

    With ASUS ROG Strix O/C settings: running the latest ROG Furmark and almost maxing out GPU usage (using 6GB VRAM) with a TGPWatts maxing out at 298W, the GPU temp stabilises at 46 deg C, with the gpu loop fluid temp at 33 deg C (this with the, now 3, gpu rad fans at 90% speed of 1950rpm). This is with a stable boosted core clock of 1962MHz, and 5508MHz for the gpu mem. That seems fine to me. PSU +12V sits at 11.933V under this load (normally about 11.988V), so PSU seems OK I think with this voltage drop. SB temp sits at 53.0 C and NB at 55.0 C during Furmark, with CPU utilisation around 33% across the cores, and a CPUTIN of around 38.5 C. So not sure CPU is straining too hard. Also, no artefacts detected.

    Running PRIME95 Max Power torture test at the same time as the above Furmark I didn't get any cut-outs / power cycles, though I did notice the PSU +12V drops down to 11.877V, which is much more significant... CPUTIN stable at 49.0, SB tops out at 55.0 C and NB at 59.0 C (both fluid temps stable at 33.0 C).

    If the problem continues, I may slightly under-clock (for the ROG Strix OC card) to the 'normal 1080 Ti' specs, and will run like this for a while to see if things are more stable. If that fails, I'll replace the PSU.

    Just need to limp along until chip stocks are up, prices are down, and AMD release their new stacked cache CPUs!

    Thanks for all your help,

    bn
    Last edited by kalniel; 16-08-2021 at 11:39 AM. Reason: merged posts

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    Re: Upgraded system with gfx card - system cuts-out (power cycles) on heavy gfx load.

    Ah I overlooked the fans being powered from the GPU fan header, that could be causing it and sounds like it might have been the cause here. It could be tripping overcurrent protection on the header when the fan speed increases, and the GPU may automatically trip if the fan fails to prevent damage. It might be worth getting a PWM fan repeater - these repeat the PWM signal to the powered fans but draw power from something like a SATA or Molex connector rather than overloading a fan header.

    Edit: This is the sort of thing I'm talking about, but I've no idea what this exact one is like. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Connector-S.../dp/B08Y6PHYCZ

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    Re: Upgraded system with gfx card - system cuts-out (power cycles) on heavy gfx load.

    @watercooled

    Thanks for the link to the repeater.

    Looking at the fan header aspect again, I'm not sure that was it, as each fan header should be able to cope with up to a 1A draw... With 4 of my industrial NF-F12 fans (1.2W max at 12V, so max 0.1A draw each) it should only draw 0.4A...

    *shrugs*

    GPU-Z confirms max power draw over PCIe 2.0 bus (during Furmark stress test) was 40W (out of 75W budget), so well inside. Also, each PCIe power connector was only taking between 100 - 130W (so again, well within 300W budget of each +12V rail on my PSU).

    Will see if I get any restarts from now (since tinkering all over the place, upgrading drivers, etc.).

    Thanks again,

    bn

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    Re: Upgraded system with gfx card - system cuts-out (power cycles) on heavy gfx load.

    PSUs lose capacity as they age, whereas I'd be amazed if there was enough intelligence in a fan connector to shutdown the system if it was overloaded. I believe it's the electrolytics drying out reducing the capacity to handle voltage spikes (as they go high resistance)

    Can you log results to file while you play a game to see how low the 12v rail dips? You might see a few momentary dips to worrying levels (with a perfectly healthy average voltage) before the system cuts out.

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    Re: Upgraded system with gfx card - system cuts-out (power cycles) on heavy gfx load.

    Hi Xlucine,

    Thanks for the suggestion - I have HW Monitor PRO, so will start a recording when playing to check for spikes. Might use GPUZ to also record...

    Since I've tinkered, the cut-outs haven't happened again, but we'll see... Will definitely look at a PSU replacement at that point.

    Note that over the last 10 years, I've actually rarely totally removed power to the PSU... It's always been plugged in. I had read somewhere that this is better for the caps on the mobo (and PSU components? i.e. not cycling), but I may be way off... Seems to have been OK so far...

    Thanks,

    bn

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    Re: Upgraded system with gfx card - system cuts-out (power cycles) on heavy gfx load.

    The PSU might have started to degrade at that age,and its not helpful if its a multirail design designed for older GPUs which pushed much less peak load power. Luckily,however,there seems to be a pricing depression in PSUs ATM.

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    Re: Upgraded system with gfx card - system cuts-out (power cycles) on heavy gfx load.

    Looks like lots of ST1500 PSU's, some with single rails, some with 8 rails!

    Which one do you have exactly OP?
    Jon

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    Re: Upgraded system with gfx card - system cuts-out (power cycles) on heavy gfx load.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonj1611 View Post
    Looks like lots of ST1500 PSU's, some with single rails, some with 8 rails!

    Which one do you have exactly OP?
    If it is 10 years old it will be the silver rated model from 2009 I suspect:
    http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page998.htm

    So 4 rails??

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    Re: Upgraded system with gfx card - system cuts-out (power cycles) on heavy gfx load.

    Ah, I had assumed it was one of the newer multi-rail ones as in the links I provided. Not that a 10 year old PSU is necessarily a write-off, but it does push it up the list of likely causes. On the other hand, if you've had no issues since, perhaps it was something else entirely?

    Monitoring voltages likely wouldn't tell you much about component degradation. Without proper testing equipment and knowledge, often the easiest way to know if a PSU is failing is to try a spare if possible. As CAT says, it's not just about power handling as modern GPUs can demand a lot from a PSU in terms of transient loads, with rapid changes in power draw and spikes above the average consumption. While even an older PSU with a well-designed output should handle it OK, it does put more emphasis on PSU build quality.

    Did I misunderstand the OP regarding the fan headers? I read post #7 as that unplugging one of the fans appears to have solved the problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xlucine View Post
    I'd be amazed if there was enough intelligence in a fan connector to shutdown the system if it was overloaded.
    Be amazed then, because it's not unusual and is not remotely complex to implement. In fact it's pretty much incompetent design if a power supply, fan controller or otherwise, allows itself to meltdown and possibly start a fire if it gets overloaded. Even USB phone chargers will keep tripping and resetting if you overload them, as is required by the specification. Not all assembled GPUs or PC parts will subsequently act on a fan fail alarm (some depending on thermal safeguards instead), but it's not a shutdown request, it's a hardware trip similar to THERMTRIP. Quite a few commercial pre-built PCs will refuse to boot if the CPU fan is obstructed or unplugged, for example, though that's less common with retail motherboards.
    Last edited by watercooled; 18-08-2021 at 12:47 PM.

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    Re: Upgraded system with gfx card - system cuts-out (power cycles) on heavy gfx load.

    Where did the GeForce 1080 ti come from? if its a second hand one sure it wasn't used in a mining rig or just faulty?
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