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Thread: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

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    stormrazer razer121's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    oof, now im super torn between amd and intel, on one hand i want to get the core i5 12600, on the other im leaning towards a ryzen 5600x

    Mainly i play ark so my rig now is still brought to its knees ha! i run in 1440p for the record!

    I intend on playing ark 2, i tend to play a lot of games to be fair, so sea of thief's is another for example to sometimes COD Vanguard

    I looked into it with her rig, no idea whats causing the loud fans from my partners PC but still!

    if i was to go to ryzen i have heard about how they can be sensitive to memory, i run currently 4 sticks of 8gb corsair vengeance ram ideally i want to run it higher than what my system is limited to (2666mhz) so thats another reason i want to do the upgrade chaps

    Little edit! - i have contemplated forking out the money on a 3060 TI or 3070, reason being is that my daughter needs a new GPU so i can drop my one straight into her rig...and then wait out alder lake and upgrade later in the year, thoughts?
    Last edited by razer121; 18-05-2022 at 08:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TAKTAK View Post
    It was so small that mine wouldn't fit into it

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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Quote Originally Posted by razer121 View Post
    ... and then wait out alder lake and upgrade later in the year, thoughts?
    I'm tempted to wait, but in fairness, there's pretty much always something new just out, or coming shortly. You've gotta jump, sooner or later, or in 10 years you'll still be waiting .... for 16th Gen.

    Conversely, that "always something coming" point is part of what took me off the 'get the shiny new tech' point .... even if I do, it won't be the shiny new tech for long, 'cos .... yup, something else is always coming.

    So my conclusion is, forget the upgraditis aspects of shiny new, and work out what isn't working for me in my current system, and get whatever will fix it, now. That way, instead of waiting 6 months, a year, 18 months, I can be using my new system all that time. Of course, identifying the weakness in my system is easy, seeing as how it's all about 12+ years old. My phone is probably more powerful than my current PC, and certainly has more RAM. It's easy for me, because it's all so old. It's much harder when your current system is managing, sort-of, usually, most of the time.

    All told,the one thing I'm sure of is that there is no easy, cut 'n' dried formulaic solution.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Absolutely agree, same thing happened to me when I was upgrading last that I should wait for something but as said there is always something around that next corner
    Jon

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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    I waited until AMD had a viable option vs intel and jumped with both feet. My 3900x is still going strong. Eats VMs for breakfast

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    stormrazer razer121's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Okay so this is my thought process so far...

    I want to utilise the full potential of the PC and make sure it is ready for next gen gaming, owning a 3060 in theory i should be set but i am bottlenecked...according to user benchmark anyway

    My ram is in the websites words "Performing way below expectations" scoring only 64 percent (whatever that means in terms of real world performance)

    My M.2 NVME scores below expectations also....

    so onto my CPU same thing o.O

    So either something is off or im not understanding the scores correctly?
    Quote Originally Posted by TAKTAK View Post
    It was so small that mine wouldn't fit into it

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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    You have to be bottlenecked by something, but in gaming RAM speed is one of the smallest factors, and your CPU won't be bottlenecking much any time soon.

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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Stressing the point .... I'm no expert, but ....

    - noisy fans
    - RAM sub-expectations,
    - CPU sub-expectations,
    - NVMe sub-expectations ....

    I have to wonder if there's a common link, and which (if any) of those are 'cause' and which are symptoms?

    Is there one issue, and those are all results of it?

    For instance, for whatever reason, cooling isn't working. Result .... fans max'd out (hence noise), CPU throttling, due to heat, due to poor cooling. RAM & NVMe sub-optimal because CPU is throttling, because .... etc.

    My PC trouble-shooting days are well in the past, really. So there's a lot of hypothesising going on in there, but my caution to you is, if possible, try to work out what's going on that, based on your description doesn't seem right, before trying to upgrade your way out of it.

    I once (ages ago) had a PC doing all sorts of weird things. I thought it was totally fu...erm, messed up. Eventually, and with an element of luck, I found the problem .... PSU fan was really slow. I was getting overheating, BSODs, graphics corruptions, all inconsistent, and you-name-it going wrong.

    The cause, ultimately, was a cheap sleeve-bearing in the nasty fan in the OEM-supplied PSU. I opened the PSU up (not a good idea unless you know what you're doing, by the way), replaced their £1.50 fan with a half-decent ball-bearing fan (for about £5), and ALL the issues vanished, and the PC last years more without further trouble.

    My point, obviously, is that like with cars, tracing symptom back to root cause is not always easy, or due to the obvious candidates. That excessive fan noise of yours still worries me.

    Is it worth getting a knowledgeable friend, or if need be, a good local PC repair shop, to take a look? Sometimes, when you've had your head in a problem for a while, you fail to see the obvious because you've had your head stuck in it for a while. A new pair of eyes, and mindset, might just check something you're taking for granted .... like a duff damned PSU fan bearing.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    stormrazer razer121's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen999 View Post
    Stressing the point .... I'm no expert, but ....

    - noisy fans
    Ha i should point out i think you may have got your wires crossed here, thats my other halfs PC that is noisy, the AMD system - My system is almost whisper quiet

    i have monitored temps and i dont really go about 80 when the pc is in heavy use (ive a big 200m intake fan and cube style case so cooling is pretty top notch)

    I will agree though i use to really like to mod my rigs 10 odd years ago but now im more of a make it work kind of guy, laziness is my reason!

    trying to find the bottleneck is my main viewpoint right now but unsure exactly how to, my cpu is maxing out when gaming that is something i know of but again being 100 percent use to me makes sense when gaming so im unsure.

    but looking at my system and knowing ive got a rig that others have and mine is performing a lot lower than theirs makes me wonder what exactly is wrong, is it because of how i use my system?

    I will be honest i have two chrome windows open, each with 10 plus tabs open, whilst i game along with sometimes having a youtube video playing and of course running 2 monitors - but again the system should handle this easily.

    I do a lot of 3d modelling as well on my PC which i have noticed really strains the system at times and i do get dips and hiccups from the system hench why i just couldn't be asked to find the exact issue and just upgrade
    Quote Originally Posted by TAKTAK View Post
    It was so small that mine wouldn't fit into it

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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    RAM speed does effect gaming. If you look at that chart before,I lost a lot of performance dialing the RAM back to 2666MHZ. Nearly 20% going back to non-XMP settings. OFC,not all games are the same.

    If you want to look at how RAM speed even affects a Core i5 10400 just look at this review:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csFwlKgZCzM



    Minimums are affected by anything from between 15% to 30% by using 2666MHZ DDR4 as opposed to 3200MHZ DDR4.

    Also if you want to be ready for next generation gaming and do 3D modelling,perhaps waiting for Zen4 and whatever Intel has makes the most sense.

    I wouldn't be going with anything under 8 full sized cores even if 6 cores look OK still. There are rumoured console refreshes coming along and if those push more cores you are back to square one.

    Quote Originally Posted by razer121 View Post
    Ha i should point out i think you may have got your wires crossed here, thats my other halfs PC that is noisy, the AMD system - My system is almost whisper quiet

    i have monitored temps and i dont really go about 80 when the pc is in heavy use (ive a big 200m intake fan and cube style case so cooling is pretty top notch)

    I will agree though i use to really like to mod my rigs 10 odd years ago but now im more of a make it work kind of guy, laziness is my reason!

    trying to find the bottleneck is my main viewpoint right now but unsure exactly how to, my cpu is maxing out when gaming that is something i know of but again being 100 percent use to me makes sense when gaming so im unsure.

    but looking at my system and knowing ive got a rig that others have and mine is performing a lot lower than theirs makes me wonder what exactly is wrong, is it because of how i use my system?

    I will be honest i have two chrome windows open, each with 10 plus tabs open, whilst i game along with sometimes having a youtube video playing and of course running 2 monitors - but again the system should handle this easily.


    I do a lot of 3d modelling as well on my PC which i have noticed really strains the system at times and i do get dips and hiccups from the system hench why i just couldn't be asked to find the exact issue and just upgrade
    I had no issues doing that you have bolded with a slower Ryzen 5 2600(before I got a Ryzen 7) and I have a Core i5 10400 myself(on a B460 with RAM set to 2666MHZ) in another system,but then the games I play the most don't use all six cores massively. If the games you play are very core heavy it could be a problem.

    The later rig uses Linux and so far haven't had an issue but I a rebuilding it now and will install Windows and see if it's fine.

    But what is your CPU idle temperatures like and clockspeeds?

    Quote Originally Posted by razer121 View Post
    My ram is in the websites words "Performing way below expectations" scoring only 64 percent (whatever that means in terms of real world performance)
    If that is Userfailmark,then RAM speed affects it to some degree. If it's the GPU scores,then it's not really great because the test is DX9 IIRC,so best to run 3DMark and get a better idea.


    Quote Originally Posted by razer121 View Post
    My M.2 NVME scores below expectations also....
    If it's a PCI-E 4.0 NVME SSD on a B460 you are limited to PCI-E 3.0 so the maximum read/write scores won't be met. I have a FireCuda 520 on a B450 motherboard and see that - but games are more limited so far by random read/write speeds. Directstorage might change that but we are also heading to PCI-E 5.0(Alderlake supports it with Z690 and DDR5) and Zen4/Raptor Lake should support it across the board.

    OTH,if its random read/write which seems off - you might need to check whether you need to update the platform drivers(and some SSDs can come with their own NVME drivers such as Samsung) or the SSD needs newer firmware.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 19-05-2022 at 02:00 PM.

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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    - snip - .
    So idle temps are 39/40 and max temps i got from my rig running for a couple of hours in ARK is 66 degrees - i did say my cooler is pretty good

    3DMark is something i am going to go and download now and run see what i get in terms of score!

    Also yes i sit on PCI-e 3x with the NVME drive, but would there be much point moving to a rocket lake? i did think and wonder if i should just upgrade the board but that depends if the new board would support the last gen cpu, same socket but ive not done enough research to confirm it i am indeed sat on a b460-matx an asus rog strix b460-g to be exact so a pretty solid board already bar that one exception.


    I will report back soon with the 3dmark score and my findings on a b560/z590 board
    Quote Originally Posted by TAKTAK View Post
    It was so small that mine wouldn't fit into it

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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    So following from my last post turns out i can upgrade to a newer chipset, this resolves my problem in terms of pcie 3x and being able to then use my nvme drive to its full potential - question is, is it worth it? i can get a b560m asus tuff board for around £150 or i could get an MSI z590, considering i dont ever intend on going K version of the chips (i just dont have time to mess about with OC what with boost clocking now!) i am wondering what is if any the best route to go.

    3DMark was a respectful score i felt which is a Graphics score of 8773 and CPU score of 6822, cannot really find much info on my ram speed etc but for the record my GPU never went about 64 degrees - NICE

    So....what to do haha!
    Quote Originally Posted by TAKTAK View Post
    It was so small that mine wouldn't fit into it

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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    To get PCI-E 4.0 on a B560 motherboard you would need one of the Core i5 11000 series CPUs. What B560 does for a Core i5 10600 is open up running RAM at XMP,so if you have 3200MHZ DDR4 it can run at 3200MHZ instead of 2666MHZ.

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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    To get PCI-E 4.0 on a B560 motherboard you would need one of the Core i5 11000 series CPUs. What B560 does for a Core i5 10600 is open up running RAM at XMP,so if you have 3200MHZ DDR4 it can run at 3200MHZ instead of 2666MHZ.
    Ah crap...so im stuck again, i was looking at an MSI z590m for £149 on scan and got really excited and very nearly bought it!

    now im stuck and will be doing loads more research as i really want to get every little bit of extra performance from my rig, i said before i play ARK Survival evolved and it is just terribly optimized and that game makes my pc melt, particularly the CPU its the only game that can make the cpu jump up on temps and hit 100 percent usage
    Quote Originally Posted by TAKTAK View Post
    It was so small that mine wouldn't fit into it

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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Quote Originally Posted by razer121 View Post
    Ah crap...so im stuck again, i was looking at an MSI z590m for £149 on scan and got really excited and very nearly bought it!

    now im stuck and will be doing loads more research as i really want to get every little bit of extra performance from my rig, i said before i play ARK Survival evolved and it is just terribly optimized and that game makes my pc melt, particularly the CPU its the only game that can make the cpu jump up on temps and hit 100 percent usage
    ARK does also really tax the GPU a lot last time I played it.

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    stormrazer razer121's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    ARK does also really tax the GPU a lot last time I played it.
    You would be correct but a 3060 should handle it better than what mine does, at least 60fps and i dont get that
    Quote Originally Posted by TAKTAK View Post
    It was so small that mine wouldn't fit into it

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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Quote Originally Posted by razer121 View Post
    Ha i should point out i think you may have got your wires crossed here, thats my other halfs PC that is noisy, the AMD system - My system is almost whisper quiet
    Ah, .... er, yup.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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