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Thread: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

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    stormrazer razer121's Avatar
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    Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    So after a terrible year etc etc I'm looking at my next system!

    I currently run a respectfully mid tier system that does "almost" everything i want it to. The system is as follows,

    Asus ROG strix b460-g mATX board - coupled with 32gb DDR4 ram
    CPU - Intel core i5 10600 - not the K version I don't have time for overclocking anymore!
    force mp510 nvme m.2 x4 (runs in x3 on my setup)
    2TB M.2 SSD - for games
    750watt PSU (corsair if memory serves me right)
    Gigabyte RTX 3060

    So this is where my issue comes into play, I'm supping my PC up in preparation for new games etc and currently i have an issue in that my NVME runs on 3x and my ddr4 ram cannot go about i think its 2666mhz due to limitation on this setup, I have been looking at alder lake - then rocket lake popped into my mine and this is where i got stuck.

    I can get a new systems that supports a lot of my already perfectly working hardware, so RAM NVME M.2 x4 etc

    This system i have wont allow me to do that unless i start spending silly money which i do and don't want to do.

    So if you was in my position with some cash to burn on a new motherboard and CPU would you go with alder lake or stick with rocket lake? reasons also as to why you would choose this route
    Last edited by razer121; 17-05-2022 at 07:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TAKTAK View Post
    It was so small that mine wouldn't fit into it

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    ALT0153™ Rob_B's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Money to burn? Go wild and get the latest kit!
    Looks like your have a good rig already though, what's your GPU?

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    If I was going for a completely fresh system, and spending the budget for longevity then out of the two I'd go alder lake - fresh install of windows 11 etc. etc.. If I was going for lowest cost and smallest number of changes for a refresh then I'd go rocket lake and stick my old SSD in and let Windows 10 sort itself out.

    However for gaming I'd get an AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D.

    edit: ignore the intel waffle, I got my code names mixed.
    Last edited by kalniel; 18-05-2022 at 08:18 AM.

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    stormrazer razer121's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    If I -snip- AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D.
    i thought about AMD - my other halfs system is one i just dont like how loud it is and how im just use to intel, i would consider AMD but im just torn ha what benifits would i see if i went AMD over say an alderlake i5 12400/12600

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_B View Post
    Money t- -snip- what's your GPU?
    Updated it sorry i forgot to add its an RTX 3060 so im good there

    i've got about 600 to burn i would naturally like it lower, main things im really interested in is faster RAM speed and the full use of my 4x m.2 Nvme
    Quote Originally Posted by TAKTAK View Post
    It was so small that mine wouldn't fit into it

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    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    I'd be surprised if you could feel any real world performance improvement tbh from x3 vs x4 PCIe and slightly faster ram. I get the impression Ryzen systems are more sensitive to ram speed, and I was running 2666 ram for a while and couldn't tell the difference.

    I was considering upgrading my 3700X to a 5800X3D which I'm sure I could feel the difference with and would be a direct slot in for my existing motherboard, but tbh I'm thinking I should wait a bit for the 7000 series and DDR5 to get a bigger performance kick on the next stable platform. But if the upgrade itch has got you in its grip...

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    ALT0153™ Rob_B's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Yeah I'm not sure of the difference fast ram makes for Intel, certainly not as much as ryzen. As for nvme speed, are you hitting any barriers yet?

    Might be worth holding out for the next releases?

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    stormrazer razer121's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    i am, im topping my ram speeds and read speeds of the nvme, i confirmed this with the unreal tech demo, it brought my rig to its knees - now im not 100 percent on this but i do believe my only real bottlenecks are my ram and nvme drive speed, so improving that is something i want to do, i did think about waiting it out abit long but im not sure i can keep the bug at bay for that long haha
    Quote Originally Posted by TAKTAK View Post
    It was so small that mine wouldn't fit into it

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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Quote Originally Posted by razer121 View Post
    i thought about AMD - my other halfs system is one i just dont like how loud it is
    I have a Ryzen 7 5700G and its silent. Are you sure the fans aren't running full speed? A nice bequiet cpu cooler and you will never hear the cpu even on full speed.
    Jon

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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Noise is surely upto the cooling solution and isn't intel more power hungry than AMD for the top end parts? For gaming and price/performance the X3D has got to be a winner.

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    stormrazer razer121's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_B View Post
    Nois-snip-winner.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonj1611 View Post
    I -snip- eed.
    Well, here's the thing, we both have the same case, both have the same cooling fans and also have the same cpu cooler, the main difference is her system is amd with a gtx 1060 3gb and of course mine being an intel setup with a rtx 3060, mind even when i did have a 1060 my system was still no where near as loud.

    I put it down to her systems bios so i have indeed checked it out, set it up onto silent mode and nada it still sounds like an engine taking off at times

    I'm more of an intel guy but currently i am eyeing up the 5600x due to its price but again the intel version is the same so you can see why im torn (plus a intel 12400 is cheaper and i dont need to OC)

    So....help ha
    Quote Originally Posted by TAKTAK View Post
    It was so small that mine wouldn't fit into it

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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    I would just get a B560 motherboard,tweak your DDR4 as much as possible(run it at 3200MHZ) and unlock the TDP on your CPU(providing you have a decent enough CPU cooler). I only changed out my Ryzen 7 3700X since I got a Ryzen 7 5700X very cheaply and it didn't cost much as an upgrade. But if not would have quite happily stuck with my Ryzen 7 3700X for another year or two. Outside Fallout 4 and perhaps Overwatch,I am mostly GPU limited even with an RTX3060TI when I use RT,etc.

    A decent mATX B560 motherboard and suitable CPU cooler shouldn't cost more than £150 in total.

    If you want a new CPU,then it means a platform change - I would be ideally looking at Zen4 or Rocketlake at the end of the year with DDR5. PCI-E 5.0 should be mainstream by then.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 17-05-2022 at 11:26 PM.

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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Quote Originally Posted by razer121 View Post
    I put it down to her systems bios so i have indeed checked it out, set it up onto silent mode and nada it still sounds like an engine taking off at times
    That doesn't seem right if you are on an aftermarket cooler. Perhaps it has PBO switched on or something to make it draw more power than it should?
    When I was on the AMD box cooler it wasn't really ever loud, but it varied a lot which was annoying. A cheap tower cooler later and I'm mainly hearing the case fans, plus the CPU is running a bit faster as it is cooler so it uses the extra thermal headroom.

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Sorry yes I got my intel names mixed up, let's revise my post: if you want something now, get the 5800X3D. Noise is not the result of being AMD, and recent AMD chips have been running on better process (and cooler) than Intel.

    If the usual technological 'should I hang on' thing is bugging you, wait for Rocketlake to settle and see if there's a sweet spot in the line up, but it'd have to be something quite special/desire to hang on to the platform for a long time that would make me look beyond the value of the X3D for gaming.

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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    I'm contemplating a new (whole) PC, so am going through some of the same .... bafflement, most notably, Intel or AMD?

    I am no expert, but my thought process thus far is as follows :-

    - decide between stable current gen, or be a tester for initial release of new Gen (whether Intel 12th Gen now, or AMD in a few months)?

    - what do I really need it for (as I need a GPU too)?

    - power consumption, and cooling needs (two aspects of the same issue).

    As you say you're preparing for new games, my first question would be which new games? As I said, I'm no expert but from what I can make out, some are very much CPU-dependent, and others GPU-dependent. There seems little point spending loads changing CPU, with all that entails, if the games you are targetting are GPU dependent unless your current CPU really is a bottleneck. Seems unlikely, but see my final para.

    For purely gaming emphasis, I think I'd be looking at either a GPU upgrade, or that new AMD chip Dances mentioned (5800C3D), dependig on which games. That is very strong in gaming.

    If it's more of a blend, even the 5900X, which has come down in price a fair bit, is a good bet.

    From what I can make of it, Intel 12th Gen are both rather power hungry, and as a result, pretty demanding on cooling, certainly at the higher end, including 12600. If noise is a really big issue now, maybe water-cooled? But current gen AMD seem to me to be a fair bit less demanding in power draw, and therefore heat generation, than new-Gen Intel.

    Also, there have apparently been .... teething issues, with 12th Gen. There may well be with next-Gen AMD too, when it comes out. As Jayztwocents points out, it takes a while with pretty much every new Gen anything, to get the kinks out, as board partners tweak stuff, etc. So ... you may be letting yourself in for regular mobo BIOS tweaks, etc, as issues come to light and, hopefully, can be fixed via BIOS updates. Personally, that isn't a game I want to play these days. I want to spend my computing time playing games, or doing the jobs I bought it for (photo stuff, audio stuff, video stuff, probably in that order, then Office-type stuff, genealogy, web, etc) and certainly not playing at computer engineer trying to keep it running. If you "have no time to overclock" my guess is you don't wanna faff chasing BIOS upgrades either.

    Cooling noise? I'm in the camp commented above - it shouldn't be overly noisy. Existing fans OK? Dodgy bearings? Maybe new, quiet fans? CPU cooler upgrade, depending on what it is? What about simple case airflow? Are you sure there's no cockup on fan installs, and they flow the way they should? And getting effective airflow in a case isn't as simple as suck on one side and exhaust on the other.

    Does the case itself have good airflow? Lots are limited (by poor design) on getting cooler external air in, meaning the insides stay too warm. Gamers Nexus are pretty good at highlighting that.

    Anyway, my conclusion was that while I'm seriously tempted to go for shiny, new Gen stuff (either Intel or AMD) it is far safer, from a sheer hassle-avoidance perspective, to go for tried-and-test current Gen. And they're plenty fast for me, right now. So I should resist the shiny, new stuff and play it safe.

    Which brought me right back to current Ryzens, probably 5900X, a decent GPU (dropping in price and, thankfully, half-decent availability, finally) and all the bits that go to supporting those (really good PSU, good cooler, very good fans, etc). I'm not suggesting that's your optimum route. It probably isn't. But I wonder if the CPU route you're contemplatung will give you the boost you want (maybe, maybe not) and/or address the noise issue, given 12th Gen's reputation for power-hunger.

    Oh, and another factor, of course, is .... gaming at what resolution, and at what FPS? That has a big impact, with many games at least, on where you need the horsepower.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Moosing about! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Alderlake isn't too bad WRT to power with lower end models,but the higher end ones push the clockspeeds too much so it breaches the ideal voltage/frequency curve.

    The Ryzen 7 5800X3D shows massive improvements in very Intel friendly games such as Fallout 4.



    However,from what I am gathering its a bit harder to cool(probably why AMD made overclocking much harder on it).

    But I still think the OP is leaving performance on the table with the Core i5 10600. CFL still can benefit from faster RAM too,and unlocked TDP.

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    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade bug! impressions on alder lake and upgrade advice!

    Holding off for next gen video cards could be a good shout as well:

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022...xt-few-months/

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