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Thread: Headphones

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    Headphones

    I need some new headphones, with a mic

    I want 7.1 or Atmos
    Probably USB as my board is iTX and only has 3 sockets on the back, Line In, Line Out and MIC, however, the ports are apparently configurable and the audio supports 7.1, however, the Realtek Audio Manager doesn't seem to work under Windows 11 so thinking USB might get around that, I could do wireless, as long as they're not going to stutter.

    I do not want anything that needs a separate program to be installed, like iCue, to configure audio profiles and the likes, I really would prefer something that just plugs in and works where I can tell the game I'm playing that I'm on 7.1 or whatever and it just works...


    Suggestions?

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    Re: Headphones

    I can only tell you one to avoid - Razer BlackShark V2 Pro

    So disappointed, I spent ages looking for something I could use for work, gaming & music

    Good points:
    • Excellent comfort for something that has a battery & mic attached
    • Sturdy build quality
    • USB Wireless & analogue Wired, very versatile. (you lose 7.1 in analogue)


    Bad points
    • Bass struggles in everything I have tested it with, the speakers feel very underpowered
    • Clarity completely lacking
    • I'm also not a fan of these digital equalizers/profiles. It adds echo & effects to standard speech and you have to constantly tune it to whatever you're doing. But if you disable it you lose basic treble and bass tuning. Can't win.
    • Cannot replace ear muffs


    Very likely to sell them and just stick with my Sennheisers, which are cheaper and better quality in every way.
    I'll admit I have yet to try 7.1, but on my friends Creative Labs ones, I thought 7.1 was overwhelming, too many sounds that I couldn't process them all. I'm sure some adjustment time would be needed to give a fair assessment. For now I'm happily living in stereo

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    Re: Headphones

    The only reason I want 7.1/Atmos is for a bit more directional audio when playing games, I mean, I don't really need some new headphones, the ones I have at the mo are simple stereo + mic jobs. but they're probably 10 or so years old and are a bit battered so might as well get something a bit more fancy to replace them with..

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    Re: Headphones

    7.1 audio is just software with headphones.

    https://uk.pcmag.com/music/127456/ho...nes-for-gaming

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    Re: Headphones

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    7.1 audio is just software with headphones.

    https://uk.pcmag.com/music/127456/ho...nes-for-gaming
    Still?
    So there's no actual headphones with additional speakers to give you better quality and directional audio, that's a bit crap, would have thought by now that things would have improved..

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    Re: Headphones

    Quote Originally Posted by [GSV]Trig View Post
    Still?
    So there's no actual headphones with additional speakers to give you better quality and directional audio, that's a bit crap, would have thought by now that things would have improved..
    Still only got two ears

    Seriously though, positional audio is supposed to be down to the shape of your head and ears, which works OK for cinema with speakers around a room but when you are feeding audio into your eardrums point blank with headphones none of that surrounding head structure really gets a chance to take part. So yeah, it's all mathematical models and dsp software, and I suspect it always will be. Some headphones seem to have that DSP built in, but that seems pretty wasteful with modern multi core PCs which aren't going to sweat a bit of audio work.

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    Re: Headphones

    Ok, well in that case add headphones where I don't have to buy an additional piece of software to the list then lol...

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    Re: Headphones

    Nothing I can say to help. I have several set of headphones of varying ages and for varying jobs, none of which are gaming and none of which have built-in (or built-on) mic.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: Headphones

    Quote Originally Posted by [GSV]Trig View Post
    Still?
    So there's no actual headphones with additional speakers to give you better quality and directional audio, that's a bit crap, would have thought by now that things would have improved..
    there are headphones, earphones, IEMs whatever you want to call them that have multiple drivers (ie. multiple speakers, so one that does lower frequencies to give more bass and another for the rest, or 3 in total, high, mid, low), but as has been pointed out, you only have two ears and each ear is just going to hear the combined sound from the earphone that's on the ear. it's different with say an ATMOS or 5.1 speaker setup as you do have multiple speakers around the room, but in that case both ears are hearing all speakers and the brain is determining where the sound comes from

    i'm not a gamer, and just play playstation or xbox on occasion through an atmos speaker setup and not playing online. have plenty of headphones for music use tho

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    Re: Headphones

    Fair enough, I was expecting, what essentially would be a smaller version of speakers around the room, but inside the cups, if that's not actually how it works then that's fair enough...

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    Re: Headphones

    Quote Originally Posted by [GSV]Trig View Post
    Fair enough, I was expecting, what essentially would be a smaller version of speakers around the room, but inside the cups, if that's not actually how it works then that's fair enough...
    You could probably do it like that, but there would be problems. To fit several drivers in a headphone shell they would probably have to be something like 15mm, and that's going to be hard to not sound tinny compared to the usual 40mm or 50mm driver

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    Re: Headphones

    Yeah makes sense I guess, certainly better than the ones we do at work lol

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    Re: Headphones

    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    there are headphones, earphones, IEMs whatever you want to call them that have multiple drivers (ie. multiple speakers, so one that does lower frequencies to give more bass and another for the rest, or 3 in total, high, mid, low), but as has been pointed out, you only have two ears and each ear is just going to hear the combined sound from the earphone that's on the ear. it's different with say an ATMOS or 5.1 speaker setup as you do have multiple speakers around the room, but in that case both ears are hearing all speakers and the brain is determining where the sound comes from

    i'm not a gamer, and just play playstation or xbox on occasion through an atmos speaker setup and not playing online. have plenty of headphones for music use tho
    The "two ears" bit confuses me a little. After all, I've still only got two ears when listening to speakers or if (hopefully not) wandering through a jungle trying to hear the hungry carnivorous animal that thinks I'm lunch.

    That the sound with speakers (or jungles) comes from from varying distances at varying strengths and the brain processes that into usable data .... that, I get. But software ought to be able to simulate that.

    What I don't know, one way or the other, is whether the shape of our ears, all the little grooves and channels, nooks and crannies, somehow helps in basic signal processing 'proper' sounds, even from speakers, in a way that might simple not be possible for headphones or in-ear devices simply because they're too close, too mono-directional, for it to work.

    My guess is that it does to something unrecreateable (for now) but I don't know it does.

    What I do find fascinating is quite where the processing, be it sight, sound, taste or touch, happens. I mean, eyes for instance. It's easy to consider them kind-of analogous to personal built-in cameras we see with but in reality, they're more like digital camera sensors detecting light and turning it into electronic (neural) data sent to the brain. It's the brain that we "see" with. Ditto for taste, hearing, etc. So sure, any problems or damage to the 'sensors' affects our ability to see, hear, taste etc but it's because the data sent to the brain changes.

    Just like we can 'process' visual signals and 'see' what our brain thinks matters, and not see other things that are there because the brain dismisses them due to context (think about dancing gorilla experiments), the same is true of hearing. Back in my uni days I went to stay at a friend's house for the weekend. Unbeknown to me, they lived right next to (and I mean like 60 feet from) a mainline railway track. I'd been there about 30 minutes when an intercity train thundered past going pretty much full tilt. I thought the sky was falling in. "What's that noise?" I said.They all looked puzzled for a moment, then the penny dropped. "Oh, just a train. The track's at the bottom of the garden".

    I didn't sleep a wink that first night, being woken with a start every time a train went past. To me, it was an unexpected noise. They all, unless it was pointed out to them, just didn't "hear" them. I mean, their ears transmitted the same signals mine did, but their brains said "Irrelevant, no threat, filter that". Like dancing gorillas.

    Anyway, sorry Trig, gone off on a tangent there.

    My point .... is it possible, even with the point-source nature of headphones or even in-ear to simulate what those nooks, channels, grooves etc do, and therefore simulate directionality via headphones? I would have thought so with the level of DSP available these days. But in the headphones/IEMs? I would have thought it could be done but whether it has? Dunno. Also, dunno what they might cost, but even decent noise cancelling, which I'd have thought was simple by comparison, ain't cheap. And, there's a world of difference between good DSP and cheap DSP, and between good noise cancelling and cheap noise cancelling. Buyer beware, I'd think.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: Headphones

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen999 View Post
    Back in my uni days I went to stay at a friend's house for the weekend. Unbeknown to me, they lived right next to (and I mean like 60 feet from) a mainline railway track. I'd been there about 30 minutes when an intercity train thundered past going pretty much full tilt. I thought the sky was falling in. "What's that noise?" I said.They all looked puzzled for a moment, then the penny dropped. "Oh, just a train. The track's at the bottom of the garden".

    I didn't sleep a wink that first night, being woken with a start every time a train went past. To me, it was an unexpected noise. They all, unless it was pointed out to them, just didn't "hear" them. I mean, their ears transmitted the same signals mine did, but their brains said "Irrelevant, no threat, filter that". Like dancing gorillas.

    Anyway, sorry Trig, gone off on a tangent there.
    I had similar the first time I was in Bangladesh, at 5am or whatever time it was they all started shouting about their friend Alan, woke me up and then I couldn't get to sleep, second night, and on subsequent trips there I was fine. As you say the brain processes it, doesn't trigger as a threat and you can then ignore it after that, unless its actually in the same room I'm guessing as there's some sort of proximity sensory thing going off as well because if anything goes off in the bedroom it wakes me up, that and the missus cant ignore my snoring...

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    Re: Headphones

    Quote Originally Posted by [GSV]Trig View Post
    I had similar the first time I was in Bangladesh, at 5am or whatever time it was they all started shouting about their friend Alan, woke me up and then I couldn't get to sleep, second night, and on subsequent trips there I was fine. As you say the brain processes it, doesn't trigger as a threat and you can then ignore it after that, unless its actually in the same room I'm guessing as there's some sort of proximity sensory thing going off as well because if anything goes off in the bedroom it wakes me up, that and the missus cant ignore my snoring...
    I discovered, in my teens, rhat if I came home very late (parent's house) and crept up the stairs, it would wake Dad 100% of the time. If I came in normally and just moved around normally, not doing an elephant impression but just normal, about 80% of the time it didn't wake him.

    It was smething about creeping around that alerted his lizard brain, when normal movement didn't.

    The other weird thing was, well, my budgie. He had very, very good hearing. Whenever I came home from school, he'd go crazy when I was still several hundred yards away, and out of sight of the house. It wasn't like it was just that time of day, because if I came home early, he went nuts as I approached. If I came home late, he was fine and calm until I got a few hundred yards away, whatever time it was, then went nuts.

    I suppose it could have been some other 6th sense we know nothing about, but it seems unlikely. More likely is exceptional hearing, and he somehow recognised my footsteps. Oh, and I was nearly always on my own, so it certainly wasn't my voice if I was talking to someone.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: Headphones

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen999 View Post
    The "two ears" bit confuses me a little. After all, I've still only got two ears when listening to speakers or if (hopefully not) wandering through a jungle trying to hear the hungry carnivorous animal that thinks I'm lunch.

    That the sound with speakers (or jungles) comes from from varying distances at varying strengths and the brain processes that into usable data .... that, I get. But software ought to be able to simulate that.

    What I don't know, one way or the other, is whether the shape of our ears, all the little grooves and channels, nooks and crannies, somehow helps in basic signal processing 'proper' sounds, even from speakers, in a way that might simple not be possible for headphones or in-ear devices simply because they're too close, too mono-directional, for it to work.

    My guess is that it does to something unrecreateable (for now) but I don't know it does.

    What I do find fascinating is quite where the processing, be it sight, sound, taste or touch, happens. I mean, eyes for instance. It's easy to consider them kind-of analogous to personal built-in cameras we see with but in reality, they're more like digital camera sensors detecting light and turning it into electronic (neural) data sent to the brain. It's the brain that we "see" with. Ditto for taste, hearing, etc. So sure, any problems or damage to the 'sensors' affects our ability to see, hear, taste etc but it's because the data sent to the brain changes.

    Just like we can 'process' visual signals and 'see' what our brain thinks matters, and not see other things that are there because the brain dismisses them due to context (think about dancing gorilla experiments), the same is true of hearing. Back in my uni days I went to stay at a friend's house for the weekend. Unbeknown to me, they lived right next to (and I mean like 60 feet from) a mainline railway track. I'd been there about 30 minutes when an intercity train thundered past going pretty much full tilt. I thought the sky was falling in. "What's that noise?" I said.They all looked puzzled for a moment, then the penny dropped. "Oh, just a train. The track's at the bottom of the garden".

    I didn't sleep a wink that first night, being woken with a start every time a train went past. To me, it was an unexpected noise. They all, unless it was pointed out to them, just didn't "hear" them. I mean, their ears transmitted the same signals mine did, but their brains said "Irrelevant, no threat, filter that". Like dancing gorillas.

    Anyway, sorry Trig, gone off on a tangent there.

    My point .... is it possible, even with the point-source nature of headphones or even in-ear to simulate what those nooks, channels, grooves etc do, and therefore simulate directionality via headphones? I would have thought so with the level of DSP available these days. But in the headphones/IEMs? I would have thought it could be done but whether it has? Dunno. Also, dunno what they might cost, but even decent noise cancelling, which I'd have thought was simple by comparison, ain't cheap. And, there's a world of difference between good DSP and cheap DSP, and between good noise cancelling and cheap noise cancelling. Buyer beware, I'd think.
    without headphones, each ear is hearing the same things, but at very slightly different volumes and very slightly different delays, and the brain interprets those tiny changes to determine where the sound is coming from. with standard earphones you are typically hearing the same thing at the same time at the same volume

    there have been a number of different ways for software to artificially process sounds to sound more 3 dimensional, with various levels of success. more recently, with the use of wireless earbuds that can detect movement, it's possible to have processing where the sound changes as you move your head, in a similar way to if you were in front of 2 speakers or in the middle of a 5.1 setup and you move your head and your ears are in different locations to speakers and sound varies

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