I've just been playing HL2DM for an hour, and I'm actually quite shocked as to how bad it is... Has anyone else noticed that these flat panels seem to exhibit quite prominent ghosting/motion blur, or is it just me?
S.
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I've just been playing HL2DM for an hour, and I'm actually quite shocked as to how bad it is... Has anyone else noticed that these flat panels seem to exhibit quite prominent ghosting/motion blur, or is it just me?
S.
If you're going straight from CRT to TFT you'll notice something - but you get used to it.
On a 16ms panel you'll get used to it a lot quicker too.
I just remembered ten years ago, my very first 15" LCD, cost more than the 2405 now, and the refresh time is around 100ms LOL. You need some time to get used to it.
Actually because of the slow refresh time lag I fought better in MOHAA LOL. It served me 7 years until it died 3 yrs ago.
Blimey, didn't realise it'd be quite that bad tho! And I'm glad it's not my eyes deceiving me!
Mmm.. Wondering if I should have got that 22" Iiyama CRT now..
S.
worries some people more than others, pity you are one of the former after shelling out for an otherwise top notch display.
HL2 on mine is fine for me, but this is my 3rd Dell tft, so well used to it and tbh never really noticed it anyways
You should get used to it, and after a while you probably wont notice any ghosting.
I guess you are all right <smacks himself over the head> ;)
I guess coming from a Trinitron CRT, it was to be expected - but thankyou all for your reassurance. I guess I can always sell it on in a couple months time if I really can't get on with it. I will admit tho - beautiful colours - sooo sharp - and quite bright too!
I suppose another thing that's really made me think twice is this damned NVidia/SLI/Wide/DVI bug that I've come accross - kinda made me wonder if widescreen was so essential after all..
Again, thanks, :)
S.
Just to clarify..
Depending on who's sales pitch you look at, the Samsung flat panel used in the 2405 has a 12-16ms response time.
If I'm right with my maths (which would be a miracle):
That means (1000/16) = 62.5 possible crystal state changes in one second - ie: over and above the panels stated equivalent 'refresh rate' of 60Hz, and well above the generally accepted 25-30fps needed for the human eye to perceive continuous motion.
The only possible explanations are: 1. Samsung are being optimistic with their specs, or 2. It takes a shedload longer than 12-16ms for a crystal to do a full black/white change, which drops the refresh much lower?! Dunno. lol.
Not sure what to do now - it just seems a bit of a waste having this hi-spec gear, just for the output to get mushed up by the panel. Please do me a favour - convince me not to return the TFT and get an Iiyama 22" CRT saving myself £000's in the process....
S.
don't return it, I use a 22" HP CRT screen at work and I have just got in after spending the last few hours of last night staring at my 2405 and I bloomin hate this CRT, it looks so bland and boring, it just looks crap in my opinion.
Besides, you can always turn the monitor into a DVD screen to put at the end of yer bed LOL :P
Personally, having a 17" Dell panel in the office that just looks tiny and a 22" HP CRT that has washed out colour and a blurred quality.
Don't sell it, you know you want it.
m@
:p Ahhh, you made me chuckle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt D
I just can't help thinking that a top of the line 22" NEC/Mits/Iiyama tubed monitor, that would give the same height viewable as the 2405, would be better for me. I'm trying to weigh it all up, and perhaps it wasn't a good thing to do AFTER I bought the TFT.. ;)
My main concerns for ditching the TFT for a CRT would be that the CRT would be nowhere as sharp for 2D work. On the other hand, a CRT should have much better colour and contrast/black level, and this damned motion blurring is getting on my nerves.
Unfortunatley, I can't afford to buy a 22" CRT and have it sitting next to the TFT for comparison.. lol.
Everyone has made valid points, I'm just a little disappointed that's all. Of course Dell offer a 'no-questions' no-penalty return for up to 7 days after receipt, so I've got the weekend to make my mind up...
Keep those opinions coming, I need guidance!
S.
Ive not noticed any ghosting on the dell, my first tft was 50ms and the last screen i saw ghosting on was a samsung fa porchse which was 25ms.
You could probably pick up a secondhand flatscreen 21" CRT for under £100 now, why not use that for gaming and the 2405 for everything else?
Meh, and I thought "ghosting" wasn't a problem on these newer screens, and now people say you only notice after switching from a CRT?
Well, I'm certainly not going to replace my perfect 19" completely flat CRT that displays vibrant colours very crisply with a TFT that will look pants, especially for the huge amount of money they cost. My £100 CRT > Dell's £400 TFT by the sounds of it!
BlueMagician, the choice is totally up to you, but I know what I'd do.
I never actually notice ghostsing when gaming. Even on my laptop screen with really crappy ghosting, I still dont notice it in games. Maybe that says something about my pace in games lol:)
i would keep the tft, they are so nice compared to crt. I am really looking foward to OLED screens coming on the market, 1-2ms response!
Argh.. Just as I expected... Votes for both sides. ;)
Meh. What to do, what to do.. Sending the TFT back would save me a shedload of cash, as you can pick up a stonker of a Mitsi tubed 22" CRT for <£500. But I don't want to go through all that, lose the TFT that I got at a good price, just to find out that a CRT looks pants by comparison.
Rave - fair point - but I don't have the desk space.. :(
I'm gonna setup my old 17" CRT again tonight, and just make sure I'm not deluding myself and creating a problem where there is none. I just can't put my finger on it, but when I'm zipping around in a 1stPS everythings all blurry - not jumpy or stuttery like a framerate problem - but blurry - which I'm sure everyone will understand is a nightmare when you're trying to nail someone at a distance with the crossbow.. ;)
I gotta make my mind up by Monday, else Dell charge a re-stocking fee and get all mumbly. TBQH, I think it's very fair of them to even consider taking it back FOC, considering there's nothing actually at fault with it!
S.
I still prefer a CRT over a TFT for the reasons you have outlined. A good TFT suitable for graphics design and fast gaming is just too expensive, and, imo, still not as good as a decent CRT.
Its ashame all major CRT production stops this year :(
Glad I got mine when I did then!
I don't think you can really compare a TFT directly to a CRT though, can you? They both have pros and cons. If you are a heavy gamer, I would think at the moment, CRT's are better for you, but that's just my opinion and many thinks that's always wrong! :P
Nar, i agree with you, its hard to directly compare them, but we dont really have a choice considering these will be replacing CRT'sQuote:
Originally Posted by Allen
Yeah, but I wouldn't fret. CRT technology has hardly advanced at all for years, albeit that prices have continued to drop steadily. Four or so years ago I paid £200 for a 17" Samsung 753DF and thought it was a good deal. Now you can pick up a flatscreen 19" for under £100 new. More and more people and companies will be getting rid of their CRTs over the next couple of years. I doubt a 22" Mitsubishi tubed monitor will be worth more than £150 secondhand a year from now, and that's about as good as CRTs get. I know a guy who pulled two working 19" monitors out of a skip last week. The point I'm trying to make is that yes CRT production might be ending, but there will be no shortage of them for years and years, and by the time production does end LCDs will be good and cheap enough to be a decent replacement. I'm in no hurry to replace my Cornerstone P1500, but I don't live in fear of the day it dies:).Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent
My viewsonic VP201b just doesn't have ghosting, and the colour accuracy is superb, there's no way I'm going to go back to CRT's, especially seeing as LCD tech has pretty much caught CRT up, and won't be long before it surpasses it..
Lol.. even more peeps on both side of the fence! ;)
So, my options remain:
1. Keep it. Get Used to it. Live in the knowledge that all those lovely carefully rendered NV40 frames are getting blurred to death before I get to see them.
2. Send the TFT back. Save myself a couple hundred £ (if not more), and try to find a suitable high end CRT.
What are the options for CRT's nowadays? I've always been a fan of Iiyama (Mitsi tubes), but their latest and greatest seem to have mixed reviews. :(
I'll be honest and tell you that the 17" CRT monitor I came from was an old dog, but it was a Diamontron tube, and the colours were spot on, and it kept up the pace running 75Hz at 1600x1200..
Am I being silly? Would I kill myself once I see even a decent CRT and wonder why the hell I dropped the TFT? What do ya rekon?
I need mind control people... and quickly! lol...
Thanks guys,
S.
EDIT: A final question: Why was I so unimpressed with the image quality when I tried the 2405 with DSUB? You think it was because I've seenwhat the panel was capable of with DVI or is it just that all analogue looks that bad? I'm sure top CRT's don't have that issue of quality, so why did the 2405 when being fed analogue?
my advice to you
don't impulse buy in the over £100 region :)
you are merely torturing yourself
LOL! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Stephen B
The 2405 wasn't an impulse buy, but it was a leap of faith into TFT technology, and I sooooo wish Dell had storefronts here so I could have checked it out first.
I am not disputing that this is a beautiful and crispy panel, but something doesn't feel right - and sure - I feel a bit silly about it having blown so much cash on it.
It's not like I don't have options for the next few days to decide, it's just that I can't make my mind up because I don't have enough experience of alternatives - and certainly no stores around here stock £400+ CRT's to go and play Half Life 2 on... ;)
Arrggghh... ho ho ho..
S.
How long do you have before you can return it, if you can that is?
7 days from delivery - so until end of Monday to phone them up and say that I want to return it. It is a fantastic Dell policy, but the last thing I want to do is send it back, only to realise that I should have kept it. Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen
S.
I would stick with the TFT.
Also philips (i think) have made a new CRT which is made of lots of smaller ones. They are much thinner than normal CRTs and have the benefits of CRTs. They can also be made much larger. will they actaully get produced at a reasonable price.. who knows.
I think samsung has also made something like this.
If I were you I'd stick with the TFT as well. (and if I were I'd have got a smaller and cheaper tft, but that's beside the point ;)).
My dad's got the 22" Iiyama (20" viewable), and as nice as it is, I still prefer my 17" aria TFT. I noticed a bit of ghosting at first but got used to it quickly. The benefits of a TFT outway the bad points greatly IMO - More desk space, sharper picture, nowhere near as heavy (the iiyama is a beast!), far less power consumption, and most of all they are easy on the eyes.
If you're feeling like you've spent too much money, you could return it and get a 2001fpw...
I can see ghosting on a 12ms TFT. I'm not going LCD for my self untill my 21" CPD-E540 dies and I can get a low single diget response time 20"+ LCD for 200 bucks or less.
Ahh.. so you've seen the Iiyama I was eyeing before I got the TFT then? And you can honestly say you don't mind knowing that what you're seeing is mushier on the Aria than it would be on the Iiyama?Quote:
Originally Posted by skuzgib
Lol... Yeah it does sound like that I guess.. But no, I'm okay with the cost - I just feel a bit let down by the technology that's all.Quote:
Originally Posted by skuzgib
I still haven't got a clue which way to jump - It's just nagging me in the back of my mind that it is an blatantly imperfect picture for soooo much money.
I don't wanna turn this in to an argument and I wouldn't be making such a big thing of it, had I not only a few days to decide! We've got equal-ish votes here people - keep it coming! ;)
S.
By god, please tell me I don't prefer a 6 year old 17" Trinitron tubed CRT to my shiny new 2405? Please. I must be mad.
The CRT is duller, and smaller, but my word - the blacks are BLACK, and on screen movement is smooth and crisp.
Is there anything wrong I could be doing with the TFT? Refresh rates? DVI Sync? Whatever - is there anything that would be making it do what I'm seeing? Cos at the moment, I'm 75% towards sending it back.. ARRGGHHHH! I must be nuts.
S.
Send your tft back please. If you still don't know that you want it,,,,you don't!!!!
You send that back and Im changing your name to the mad magician and given you a slap with a wet haddock.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueMagician
Its a leap you have made, and its a leap that will eventually be done by everyone.
I personally love the panel, but I have used a TFT for over three years now and am totally used to the way they are....
m@
You are indeed nuts.
But if you really don't like it, what can you do?