CPU over temperature causing shutdown

[Tigger]

I have just installed a new motherboard and CPU;
Gigabyte GA-K8NS Ultra 939 motherboard
AMD Athlon 64, 3200+ (2 GHz socket 939) processor in a box with heat sink and fan
2x256MB DDR 266
1x 40GB Hard disk
1x 120GB Hard disk
Geforce FX 5200
Soundblaster live! 5.1

Since the install of the new motherboard and processor the system keeps shutting down due to high processor temperature whenever it is worked hard. PC health check in the bios reports 18-20 C just after start up, after windows has loaded the gigabyte easytune software reports a steady 38-42 C doing nothing, but this easytune software wants to update itself on startup. If I allow this it gets 5 or 10 minutes in to the downloading procedure then the PC powers off (no shutdown, just like pulling out the power cable!). If I restart immediately and check PC health check in the bios it shows 69C. I tried again and opened windows task manager which shows 100% processor usage constantly during this updating procedure (gigabyte easytune software glitch?) which i assume caused the temperature to rise so much.
Since then I have tried to format the 40GB hard disk, but the PC shut down a few minutes in to the format and again showed 68-69 C immediately after when I rebooted.
I have felt the processor heat sink while this was happening and cant believe that it was as hot as 70 C. I have even removed the heat sink, cleaned off the thermal paste I had applied 3 or 4 days earlier (imprint on the heat sink was perfect), applied new paste and reinstalled the processor and heat sink, but the same symptoms persist (fan is working properly - 3185 rpm). I have not even done anything with the system yet, it seems unable to even cope with re-installing and updating the software.

Please help! Any ideas what the problem is? Do i send back the motherboard and processor and get replacements?

Tigger

[darrensen]

Make sure your running the latest bios update.

[0iD]

I agree, make sure you've got the latest BOIS. Flash it at boot. Also disable the thermal cutout in the BOIS, or set it higher. Even 70c shouldn't damage it.

I had a fan fail on a 3200 in a shuttle @ work & that shut off at abt 107c. And it lived again. Supprisingly tough chips

[StormPC]

You could have a bad piece of hardware but probably you just didn't configure the system properly. Have you built many systems? If not you should take the machine to an expert in your area and have him go over it before you start randomly RMA'ing stuff.

AMD Athlon 64's are very fast and reliable but there is much new hardware released, sometimes daily. Some of it is quirky in certain configurations. Even if you do get the correct combination there are many BIOS settings and driver issues that need proper attention. Something as simple as changing BIOS versions can make a huge difference in the performance.

[rajagra]

What temp do you get to if you leave it in the BIOS setup? Usually the BIOS puts the machine under load, as it has no idle process. If it doesn't get hot & shut down, you know your heatsink and fan are OK.
Are you using an old Windows Installation on new hardware?

[Tigger]

duplicated post removed

[Tigger]

This is the first time I have changed a motherboard and processor, and yes I started off using an old install of windows. This didn't work though, first saying NTLDR not found, then after I copied NTLDR and NT detect back in it still wouldn't boot. I then installed a new copy of XP on my second hard drive (already half full of media files) and took ownership of "my documents" from the first disk and copied all the files off then repaired the original XP install. It now loads both but the repaired one doesn't work properly (error messages when loading, and doesn't recognise my modem any more even after reinstalling the modem drivers) hence why I tried to format my first hard disk as part of a fresh XP installation. As I mentioned before I wasn't able to even format the drive (I chose the "format and install windows" option (not quick format) on the XP CD) because it tripped on temperature a few minutes in to the format.

Incidentally I am reluctant to update the bios on the new board because I only bought it after trying to update the bios using the Gigabyte "@bios" windows bios flashing utility on my old gigabyte GA-7DX. It should be an automatic process making it easy for relative novices like me, except it screwed the bios and hasn't posted or even shown a single pixel on screen since I used it!

I have installed all the drivers from the CD that came with the motherboard, and I have been very carefull with the physical installation and setup. I have read the whole motherboard manual page by page several times.

I am not going to raise the thermal cut off because the AMD website quotes 70C as the max for this processor and I would rather return the brand new goods for replacement than risk melting them and invalidating the warrentee!

If I leave it in the bios it seems fairly stable at around 42C, and if it is much hotter after restarting leaving it in the bios sees the temperature very slowly fall (69C down to 60C after 5 min)

Tigger

-- Tigger's like to bounce! --

[rajagra]

I am reluctant to update the bios on the new board

Very wise. Never flash the BIOS on a flaky system unless you have good reason to think the BIOS is the problem. Even then be prepared to kiss the system goodbye.

If I leave it in the bios it seems fairly stable at around 42C, and if it is much hotter after restarting leaving it in the bios sees the temperature very slowly fall (69C down to 60C after 5 min)

That is wierd - and very worrying. Sounds like something in Windows is turning off the CPU fan. But you get it even during the HD format so it can't be that.
I'd be interested to see if you can run Memtest86 from a floppy without it overheating.
Socket 9393 CPUs make it easier to put the HS on properly than the old AthlonXPs, but if the CPU is really getting hot and the HS isn't, that needs to be investigated. Did you use a nice thin layer of paste? A thin film is best, just enough to fill any tiny pits and scratches, anything more just acts as an insulator.
Sorry if I'm rambling, I'm only out of bed because I've got the flu and it's doing funny things to my head. I may be running hotter than your CPU right now!

[Tigger]

Rajagra, yes I used a nice thin layer of grease (paper thin) and really don't think it is too much, but it will be enough to more than fill the tiny grooves on the bottom of the heatsink.

Update on the problems I am having - tonight I turned on the PC and left it in the PC health check part of the bios, measuring temperatures over time. It is not stable as I thought before:

Power on 22C
In 2 mins 22C -> 36C CPU fan starts
5 mins later 36C -> 45C
5 mins later 45C -> 51C
5 mins later 51C -> 67C
2 mins later 67C -> 73C - system shutdown

then later:

Power on 32C
5 mins later 32C -> 44C fan 3068 rpm
5 mins later 44C -> 48C fan 3068 rpm
5 mins later 48C -> 54C fan 3375 rpm
5 mins later 54C -> 73C fan 4500 rpm - system shutdown

In both cases I put the side on the case at around 50C which I assume caused the faster heat up towards the end.

I then booted in to windows and monitored temps with easytune (cancelled the auto update), it dropped from 67C down to 65C over a few mins (task manager showed zero processor usage) so i started media player and played a video (task manager showed an average of 20-25% processor usage) and the temp then climbed back up (over about 5 mins) to 73C when it shut down.

Feeling the heat sink after each shut down, the base solid block from which the fins protrude was almost painfully hot to touch. I could keep hold of it, but just a tiny fraction hotter would have been painful.


Tigger

-- Tiggers like to bounce --

[Tigger]

Also, when I plug the power cable in to the PC and turn on the power switch at the back, the system does not respond to the power button on the front imediately. It does absolutely nothing then powers up 30 seconds later. After this, or if you leave the power switched on at the back for a minute before pressing the power button on the front, it will respond imediately.

Tigger

-- Tiggers like to bounce --

[Firelord]

Sounds ominous. Check the voltage settings as it sounds like your pumping (or the board is) too much voltage through the CPU which is causing the rapid rise in temps

[rajagra]

Odd. The only time I've seen a slow build-up of heat like that is when I've experimented with turning the CPU fan off, and even then it didn't get that hot at idle (Athlon 1GHz system). Sounds to me like you have a faulty CPU or motherboard. Might be worth checking the CPU for bent pins. While you're at it check the socket for signs of burning.
Clearly the heatsink is on properly, yet it's getting incredibly hot. Unless you've bent a pin you're justified in returning the CPU & motherboard.

[arthurleung]

I think you have a dodgy processor (not the core itself but a bad heat-spreader)

[Tigger]

Well, I tried a different thermal grease just in case (not Arctic Silver, just what I could get in PC world) but got the same results again so I have given up and RMA'd the motherboard and CPU to DABS. Happily they have collected the goods at their cost and refunded me with no problems whatsoever.

I am now considering purchasing the same or similar items again (the spec and price are right for me) through DABS but just noticed that there is quite a lot of used/returned stock available. Maybe I am being too suspicious but could there be a problem with this kit? Are many other people returning them after similar thermal problems?

Tigger

-- Tiggers like to bounce --

[StormPC]

You said you're using a stock HSF but you also said you put thermal paste on it. Did you remove the stock TIM before applying a very thin layer of thermal paste? You really need to clean the IHS with alcohol (and avoid scratching it) before you put thermal paste on it.

If you're using the stock cooler you need to leave the stock paste on it and follow the installation instructions to the letter.

The larger number of returned items being sold as refurbished is more a function of the increased number of inexperienced builders than a reflection of the quality of the items. I've built many systems with the components you used without any problems.

[S1mplicity]

I like refurbished