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Thread: HDD Array Water cooling, any kits out there?

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    YUKIKAZE arthurleung's Avatar
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    HDD Array Water cooling, any kits out there?

    http://www.highspeedpc.com/Merchant2...1/HDOmatOn.gif

    I'm looking for something similar to this, BUT instead of cooling 1 drive only I want something that can cool may be 3 to 5 drives using the same block, which should look like a "2*5.25" -> 3*3.5" adapter or a 3->5 SATA hotswap drive cage.

    Any idea where can I get such kit or custom make it?
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    waste of time cooling HDDs with water, nothing a slow moving 120mm fan wouldn't do...
    .: Predator :.


    - Shuttle SN25P - A64 3700+ San Diego @ 2.7GHz - 1GB PQI Ultra DDR - X850XT - Asus DVD-ROM - 200GB Maxtor + 2*80GB SATAII -

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    Senior Member SilentDeath's Avatar
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    You would probably be better to air cool them.

    I was going to build one of these: http://server2.uploadit.org/files/kbn2k3-hddblock01.jpg
    but I decided its not worth the effort.

    Ive made two dual-hdd w/c'ers before and Ive decided theres almost no reson to watercool hdd's - air works just as good for an object with such a low heat density.

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    Banned StormPC's Avatar
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    That's the funniest thing I've ever seen. What's next, phase change?

    If your HD is so hot it needs extra cooling it's time to get a new HD!

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    haha vapour-phase cooled HD's, I doubt that would do the mechanical parts much good
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    I have watercooled all 6 of my hard drives.



    Refer to this link for more info:
    Link 1

    I have 13 waterblocks in total:

    2 cpu blocks, 2 vrm blocks, 2 gpu blocks, 1 chipset block and 6 hard drive blocks.

    Here are some hard drive benchmarks:

    System info:
    2x 3.2ghz Xeon @ stock (24x133fsb & 1MB cache)
    2gig ram @ stock (DDR333 - 2-4-4-6)
    PCH-DL Motherboard - BIOS 1005 (latest bios)

    Raid card info:
    Areca 1120 (8 port, PCI-X 133, SATA2, also can do Raid6)
    Firmware revision 1.36 (latest firmware)
    Installed in Motherboard PCI-X slot: PCI slot 4 (PCI-X slot)

    Raid info:
    Windoze Raid 01 = 2x 74gig WD Raptors @ Raid1 (Areca 1120 ports 1&2)
    Storage Raid 01 = 4x 250gig Hitachi SATA @ Raid5 (Areca 1120 ports 3-6)

    un-used Areca 1120 ports = (ports 7 & 8)

    Additional Mods:
    All hard drives are water cooled


    HD Tach Benchmarks:

    2x 74gig Raptors @ Raid1:


    4x 250gig SATA @ Raid5:


    I wanted to see how the card performed with stock values for everything. So far it looks pretty good. Wonder if it can improve with some fsb overclocking and memory tightening?

    Has anyone seen a higher burst speed on a 875P type motherboard?

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    YUKIKAZE arthurleung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorky
    I have watercooled all 6 of my hard drives.



    Refer to this link for more info:
    Link 1

    I have 13 waterblocks in total:

    2 cpu blocks, 2 vrm blocks, 2 gpu blocks, 1 chipset block and 6 hard drive blocks.

    Here are some hard drive benchmarks:

    System info:
    2x 3.2ghz Xeon @ stock (24x133fsb & 1MB cache)
    2gig ram @ stock (DDR333 - 2-4-4-6)
    PCH-DL Motherboard - BIOS 1005 (latest bios)

    Raid card info:
    Areca 1120 (8 port, PCI-X 133, SATA2, also can do Raid6)
    Firmware revision 1.36 (latest firmware)
    Installed in Motherboard PCI-X slot: PCI slot 4 (PCI-X slot)

    Raid info:
    Windoze Raid 01 = 2x 74gig WD Raptors @ Raid1 (Areca 1120 ports 1&2)
    Storage Raid 01 = 4x 250gig Hitachi SATA @ Raid5 (Areca 1120 ports 3-6)

    un-used Areca 1120 ports = (ports 7 & 8)

    Additional Mods:
    All hard drives are water cooled


    HD Tach Benchmarks:

    2x 74gig Raptors @ Raid1:


    4x 250gig SATA @ Raid5:


    I wanted to see how the card performed with stock values for everything. So far it looks pretty good. Wonder if it can improve with some fsb overclocking and memory tightening?

    Has anyone seen a higher burst speed on a 875P type motherboard?
    Thats some ace stuff there and exectly what I wanted (not seperated blocks though)
    But since I'm going to fit a 8/12 drives array in my case, using 12 water blocks = loads of friction, way higher chance of leaking and cost much more.

    Need my new dual rig to be as slient as possible.
    Workstation 1: Intel i7 950 @ 3.8Ghz / X58 / 12GB DDR3-1600 / HD4870 512MB / Antec P180
    Workstation 2: Intel C2Q Q9550 @ 3.6Ghz / X38 / 4GB DDR2-800 / 8400GS 512MB / Open Air
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    Storage: 8x2TB Hitachi @ DELL PERC 6/i RAID6 / 13TB Non-RAID Across 12 HDDs
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  8. #8
    Banned StormPC's Avatar
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    How does adding a water block to a HD make it quiet? Is it made of rubber?

    What good is buying all that nice lightweight aluminum and then adding 10-15 pounds of weight from water?

    Water is fun to play with. I've done it myself. It has no place in a serious computer however. Looks really impressive though.
    Last edited by StormPC; 10-06-2005 at 04:58 PM.

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    YUKIKAZE arthurleung's Avatar
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    seal the hdds like how dorky did to his. That will absorb the sound and vibration.


    What good is buying all that nice lightweight aluminum and then adding 10-15 pounds of weight from water?
    Since aluminium cases are not that much more expensive than SECC counterparts.

    Buying an Aluminium midtower is for portability, but an Aluminium Supertower is not.
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    Banned StormPC's Avatar
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    Unless you rubber-mount the aluminum blocks it will be much louder than if you just used an Antec or Lian Li with rubber mounts. Also you should realize that heat in a HD does not degrade the performance the way it does with a CPU or GPU (or even a north bridge).

    It looks neat if done properly but doesn't actually buy you any performance.

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    YUKIKAZE arthurleung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormPC
    Unless you rubber-mount the aluminum blocks it will be much louder than if you just used an Antec or Lian Li with rubber mounts. Also you should realize that heat in a HD does not degrade the performance the way it does with a CPU or GPU (or even a north bridge).

    It looks neat if done properly but doesn't actually buy you any performance.
    Harddrive lifespan drops quickly when operating at 50'C+. NB chips could run 70, CPUs could run 80 odd, GPUs are rated at what? 120'C?

    If you need slient, you need rubber mounts + sound absorbants. These things reduce airflow to nil and reduce thermal conductivity. In turn the harddrive heat s up like in a greenhouse.

    Yes temperature will not degrade performance. But it will be dead sooner so there will be no performance at all. BTW vibration does have an impact on performance. I saw somewhere said harddrives wouldn't startup in a super-high density rackspace because the vibration is so great.Watercooling cause way less vibration than fan. Although its not much but the performance will drop by a bit. Watercooling harddrives are like getting some Low-latency ram to squeeze the last bit of performance out of your system instead of some cheapo.
    Workstation 1: Intel i7 950 @ 3.8Ghz / X58 / 12GB DDR3-1600 / HD4870 512MB / Antec P180
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    Senior Member SilentDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormPC
    Unless you rubber-mount the aluminum blocks it will be much louder than if you just used an Antec or Lian Li with rubber mounts. Also you should realize that heat in a HD does not degrade the performance the way it does with a CPU or GPU (or even a north bridge).

    It looks neat if done properly but doesn't actually buy you any performance.

    My first HDD watercooler was built with the intention of putting 5" thick foam round the outside of each drive. It worked VERY well.

    Now drives have FDB they are just about silent when mounted properly as to not induce viabrations on the case. A simple 80mm fan is enough.

    Hdds above 50c will last about 1/4 as long as those at 30c.

    Yes temperature will not degrade performance. But it will be dead sooner so there will be no performance at all. BTW vibration does have an impact on performance. I saw somewhere said harddrives wouldn't startup in a super-high density rackspace because the vibration is so great.Watercooling cause way less vibration than fan. Although its not much but the performance will drop by a bit. Watercooling harddrives are like getting some Low-latency ram to squeeze the last bit of performance out of your system instead of some cheapo.
    That is just compleatly wrong. Fans make 1/100th the vibration of a HDD for a start. Watercooling cam make as much or even more viabration, depending on the pump and rigitity of the tubing used.
    Vibration, atleast in the small quantitys at high'ish freqencys generated by other hdd's or fans can not affect performance of a hdd atall. Not one bit.
    If they didnt work, its becuase of something else.


    And also, watercooling with aluminuim/copper mix is just a bad idea. There is no reson you would need to do it. It should not be done. Ever.
    Last edited by SilentDeath; 10-06-2005 at 08:05 PM.

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    Banned StormPC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arthurleung
    Watercooling harddrives are like getting some Low-latency ram to squeeze the last bit of performance out of your system instead of some cheapo.
    Actually it's more like cutting holes in your case and covering them up with acrylic windows, or putting blue and pink lights inside. It doesn't do anything but it looks neat and kills some spare time.

    Sorry SilentDeath,

    But you're still incorrect if you think a high presicion HD causes more vibration than some cheap POS case or CPU fan. Vibration is very bad for drives, but there are a couple of things Arthur is missing.

    1) A proper self contained water system has a waterpump and one or more radiator fans, both of which cause as much or more vibriation than the 120mm fan(s) on a decent aircooled system.

    2) If you mount a drive to metal water blocks and the blocks to the case without rubber your drives are much more likely to crash from shock which is a much larger problem than fan vibration or heat.

    3) If your drive runs at 50c (or even 40c) anywhere you can measure it then it is defective. Replace it immediately. Almost all drives run well under 30c on the case although the internals of the drives can get over 50c (which is no problem by the way) on some of the faster SCSI drives.

    Even very hot drives have a life expectancy of well over 3 years especially if they are mounted in an aluminum case (which acts as a very large heatsink).
    Last edited by StormPC; 11-06-2005 at 10:24 AM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member SilentDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormPC
    Actually it's more like cutting holes in your case and covering them up with acrylic windows, or putting blue and pink lights inside. It doesn't do anything but it looks neat and kills some spare time.

    Smokey,

    You're quite incorrect if you think a high presicion HD causes more vibration than some cheap POS case or CPU fan. Vibration is very bad for drives, but there are a couple of things Arthur is missing.

    1) A proper self contained water system has a waterpump and one or more radiator fans, both of which cause as much or more vibriation than the 120mm fan(s) on a decent aircooled system.

    2) If you mount a drive to metal water blocks and the blocks to the case without rubber your drives are much more likely to crash from shock which is a much larger problem than fan vibration or heat.

    3) If your drive runs at 50c (or even 40c) anywhere you can measure it then it is defective. Replace it immediately. Almost all drives run well under 30c on the case although the internals of the drives can get or 50c (which is no problem by the way) on some of the faster SCSI drives.

    Even very hot drives have a life expectancy of well over 3 years especially if they are mounted in an aluminum case (which acts as a very large heatsink).

    Im not smokey

    As for hdd vibration, 1) depends compleatly how it is mounted. Mounted the standard way hdd->steel/alu case - then yes it does because there is nothing to abosorb the vibrations.
    If its mounted some other way - with ruber/foam etc.. then it doesnt really count, becuase you can do exactly the same to any fan, and get no vibration from either.

    Also the plastic frame of most fans will absorb much vibration. Another factor is the HDD spindle motors are quite a bit more powerfull than your average 40-80mm fan. A 40mm fan is sufficient to cool a hdd.

    Also
    1) is what I said...

    2) you wouldnt mount it directly - it defeats the whole point in doing it. The easyest option is packing foam.. And I always have plenty.

    And how do you define shock?? does the hdd/waterblock randomly fall 3 feet to the ground? There is no more shock/vibration than in a metal case.

    3) no. Ive had drives well into the 60-70°c mark that are still with me (after many years - mostly maxtors which are far from the most reliable). And for temps I use the onboard SMART sensor and Dtemp. Touching it at that time was difficult for more than 5 or so seconds.
    As for under 30.. ambient in my room is not often much under 30..
    Last edited by SilentDeath; 11-06-2005 at 12:45 AM.

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    Banned StormPC's Avatar
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    Fair enough on most points. I don't believe your 60-70c temps are accurate at all though. If you took that off the case your internal temps would have killed your drives in a heartbeat.

    Your point did illustrate how unnecessary HD cooling is, especially water.
    Last edited by StormPC; 11-06-2005 at 06:24 PM.

  16. #16
    Senior Member SilentDeath's Avatar
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    HDDs have a massive surface area for a mere 15w of output.... they shouldnt need cooling.

    The temps were the internal sensor. From touching the drives they were definatly 60+. It was only for a short time though.. (under a few hours total) if they are left at that temp constantly they will die quickly.

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