Is now an "okay" time to build a new PC?

[TooNice]

Originally posted by Austin
WD is way mroe preferable to Hitachi, even if the Hit it faster and cheaper.

I'm not too sure about Pioneer for DVD, most people prefer NEC or Sony.

<Slightly annoyed rant>
Grrrr.... Browser swallowed by post. I am getting tired with the session time out issue I am having on this board.
I was logged on when I typed the message, but was asked to log in after I hit submit. I did so but it says the thread is invalid. I hit back and I was asked to log in again. And when I did so, my (long-ish) post was gone.
</Rant>

Anyway, I was wondering if you had a reason for not recommending the Hitachi. I don't think reliability is an issue. I am aware of the issues many had with the older IBM 75GXP. But I haven't heard of any such problem in the recent days.
And performance wise, its hard to ignore the Hitachi... And its not even that noisy! (I don't care much about that, but it *is* a plus).
http://www.storagereview.com/php/ben...2=251&devCnt=3

And regarding the DVD burner... I find that comment interesting, that the members of the CDRLabs forum speak quite favorably of the Pioner.
http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=12412
http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=12970

(I guess I have some faith in Storagereview for HD and CDRLabs when it comes to Optical drives).

EDIT:

How does the CM Aero Lite compare to the Volc11 on paper? And is there any reviews around comparing them? (Price wise, they are quite similar).

While I am at it, I might as well explain my basis when picking up component.. I think some component are meant to last a very long time (e.g. Monitor/Speaker/Case/PSU). For those things, I wouldn't mind paying a large premium (which is why - despite finding it too expensive - I haven't ruled out the CM110).

Components which devalues the fastest are the ones I'd aim for "Bang for bucks" (e.g. CPU/GFX card).

If a component can last for more than one upgrade cycle (e.g Memory - way I understand, the PC3200 will still be usable even if I upgrade to an AthlonFX 12 months from now), then again, I would be willing paying a slight premium.

Likewise, if a component will not last for more than 1 upgrade (I doubt my cooler will be usable after I change sockets) I wouldn't want to spend too much on it (which is why I am not getting the SLK - I remember that those were considered the best a couple months back - not sure now).

[Austin]

Sorry to hear about your loss. I (almost) always copy my post to the clipboard (and into notepad if it's long or important) before pressing submit. CTRL+A will select all and then CTRL+C copies it to the clipboard. Just don't press a key while it's selected or you'll lose everything (I did that once). I had big problems on a nother site and found it was something to do with my ISP, I found enabling a Proxy Server cured the problem .... I had problems with longer posts and Hotmail as well (Proxy fixed these too).

I like to stick with Maxtor but would also consider Seagate (if oerf was better) and WD (if they weren't so noisy). I haven't heard bad things about Hitachi HDs but so few people back up I like to stick with what I know are not only reliable but have a good RMA process too. I wouldn't toally dismiss them but would be more likely to stick with what I know is good, esp in these days of diminishing warranties. I'm sure the Pioneer are good, last time I checked the NEC were the ones to go for as they offered everything and some of the reqs can be pretty obscure.

[TooNice]

Well, I did a couple of ajustments, nothing major:

CPUCity:
- ABIT NF7-S V2.0 £79.31
- AMD ATHLON XP 2500+ 333FSB SKT-A OEM BARTON AQZFA £65.80
- TWINMOS PC3200 512MB DDR400 CL2.5 OEM 5518 £68.15
- Antec TrueBlue 480 Watt PSU £78.72
- ARCTIC SILVER 3 THERMAL COMPOUND 3 GRAMS/8736 £4.11

Sub Total (Incl Postage): £306.07

Ebuyer:
- Coolermaster Aero7 Lite - £11.11
Note: Lots of positive reviews.. In fact I have an overall better impression than of the Volcano11. And its cheeeeap! The speed control thing doesn't eat a 5.25" bay and might match a CM case additionally.
- Western Digital Caviar SE 160GB - £99.40
- Pioneer 4x DVD DUAL R/RW IDE BURNER - OEM - £103.98
Note: Woa, this thing is more expensive than the HD
Not 100% sure if I'll get it yet, but probably...
- Liteon 52x32x52x IDE DRIVE - OEM
Note: I think I'll still keep a CDRW drive just in case..

Sub Total (Incl Postage): £245.93

Kustom PCs:
- CoolerMaster ATC-201 BXT Black
Note: Almost convinced.. I might ask someone in the case forum to post a good picture of the case if possible (using a digital cam).
- Sony Black Floppy Drive
- CoolerMaster Alu CD Bezel Black x2
Note: I guess that if I am going for a Black case, I should also try to keep the drives black. I am not familiar with stealthing, so I might just take the easier route of taping the benzel onto the drive (and hope it'll look decent).

Sub Total (Incl Postage): £146.96

Grand Total so far: £698.96

I still haven't decided on the graphic card. At this stage, I can probably get a 9800XT Pro and remain under £1000. But I see no point in doing that.. At most I'll go for a Radeon 9700 Pro if I can find a good deal (£170 would be nice). I might even be able to throw 512MB of RAM and remain under £1000. Or get a (cheap) leather chair.

Oh yea... how much is WinXP Home with a student discount?
I guess I'll finally be moving on from Win98...

[Gr44]

they vary, some arent that stable at 3, some get to 3.3-3.6

Just your luck, like any CPU

*edit*

omg at this multi page thing i need to check! ( for the P4C reply on page 1 )

lol keep doing this - can you make the "next page" bigger?

[Austin]

Nice choices TooNice, it will make you very happy.

[Trickle]

Is now an "okay" time to build a new PC?

No.

Originally posted by TooNice
I am currently using a very much obsolete P2 400.

Seing as you put it like that, any time in the last 3 years or so would qualify as 'a good time' I guess

At most I'll go for a Radeon 9700 Pro if I can find a good deal (£170 would be nice)

You will have seen the recent posts on several of us on the verge of updating gfx cards recently... until the delay of HL2... and the realisation that you can get Halo working at fair pelt by running the [bizzarly/pardixically]2.0 pix shader cmd line . Hence we are all sticking with our GF4's for a while longer.

Buy a PC whenever you need to - as has always been the way.

But at the mo go buy a 2nd hand gfx card.

[TooNice]

When is Deus Ex 2 due?
No "killer" games until next year?

How much does a GeForce4 Ti 4200 cost right now?
I've seen a Tyan Radeon9600Pro going for £110 (inc vat/shipping). Kinda tempting

(Expend a lil more on good/bad time to buy a PC? I am unlikely to go back now, I *need* something better but still.. for future reference).

[Ravens Nest]

Tornado GeForce4 Ti4200 AGPx8 64MB DDR TV+Out with Bundle Software Videocard £69.34

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...duct_uid=46137

Deus ex 2 03/12/03 only a month and a couple of weeks away!!
http://www.deusexgaming.com

It seems you can get a GF4 ti4200 8X 64MB for £70 the GF4 ti4200 8X 128MB for about £90 and the 9600 pro 128MB for about £110 - 120.

[Trickle]

>No "killer" games until next year?

Lots of good games that would be nice to have a 9800 for, though. Halo and homeworld 2 out last week etc

Deus ex 2 out in a couple of weeks? Wootang! I'ed forgotten about that. Hmm radion purchase back on perhaps even if its still 'designed' to run on a p4.

[Ravens Nest]

No trickle, it's out in a month and a couple of weeks

[Austin]

Shopping around should find you a lower price for the 4200 but it seems stocks are in decline. 4200_64MB is still a good card but it's well worth paying £10ish extra for the 128MB version. The classic (non 8X) 4200_128MB used slower RAM but are still a better idea than the 64MB ones although diffs are closer. 4200 is great as a stop gap card. If you are looking at £90 4200-8X_128MB vs £115 Rad9600PRO then the 9600PRO is certainly the option to go for. www.dabs.com had a good price on 4200-8X_128MB but I think they were waiting on more stock.

In terms of it 'being a good time to buy / build a PC' the problem is you missed the boat. The best time is when a new technology has recently come out, not so new as to warrant a high price but not so old as to be likely to be replaced by new technology. Back in the days of 400mhz CPUs there was a bit of a gap while the Athlon (and later Duron) came in blowing the other options out of the water, when SktA came out that was a good time to buy (still used today but now with higher FSB and DDR). When SktA moved to 266FSB that was also a good time to buy, esp when the AthlonXP arrived, followed later by 333FSB and the very o/c'able TbredB and then Barton. A good time to buy Intel didn't come until they started to use DDR-PC2700+ and Skt478 (still used to day but with higher FSB and now Dual Channel DDR).

As it stands currently things are set for change so in some ways it is not a good time to buy. It seems although Intel will stick to Skt478 a little longer even the new 800FSB capable mobos will not work with the newer P4's (3.4ghz+). The other thing is AMD's SktA is now nearing the end of its life as they are moving to Athlon64 (and Opteron). However it's not worth buying Athlon64 not only because of high prices but because they will be moving from Skt754 to Skt939, 754 is a stop gap only (from what we know). All is not doom and gloom though, esp when you consider some of the cheap prices available copupled with o/c'ability which has never been better. Getting a TbredB XP1700+ to XP2000+ (£40) which should run around XP3000+ speed ... or an XP2500+ (£65) which should run around XP3200+ speed is unbelievably sweet. On the Intel side you can get a good bargain from 845PE with PC3200 or Granite Bay with Dual Channel PC2700 as both of those though 533FSB based o/c very well and offer great perf. The true perf option does lie with Intel and their 865PE or 875P with 800FSB and HT, 2.4ghz or 2.6ghz CPUs can often hit 3.0ghz to 3.5ghz which again is amazing value.

So is now a good time to buy? Well as good as any due primarily to great o/c'ability, you've missed the upgrading gravy boat a few times already and I wouldn't rec waiting for Skt939 to come out and go down in price ... buy one of the great options listed above and be happy for around 12 months ... then you can upgrade to 939 (or whatever) and still get good money for your current kit (most buyers care little for upgradability). HTH!

[TooNice]

From what I've seen, the Radeon 9600 Pro is priced within £15-20 of a Ti4200. So I might stick with the 9600 Pro if I am going mid-range. I won't go above 1024x768 when it comes to gaming, but I'd like max details/AA/AF if possible and the Radeon seem to be better at those..

[Ravens Nest]

Hopefully the 2.5 ghz CPU will allow you to put most of your games at 1024x768 max details/AA/AF, as i myself have some games that run slower than i would like at those settings.

As i have a Athlon XP 2200+ and the 9700 np and you will have the Athlon XP 2500+ and the 9600 pro it will be hard to say if it will run better than my pc or not. (obviously if you overclock the videocard and CPU, then it will probably leave my one behind)

I put my graphics settings for nearly all games at 1024x768 4XAA 8XAF and if some games run fast at those settings i set it to 1280x960 4XAA 8XAF (16XAF is a lot slower than 8XAF and i see little difference)

I'd definetly have a 9600pro versus a ti4200 if i was buying new, as you say 15-20 (well 15-30) difference in price for the 128mb versions of both cards, whats £30 in the long run not much and AA and AF are worth that little bit extra, also the Catalyst drivers are sooo much better than detonator's now.

I tried to install the latest 52.16 XP drivers on my brothers machine all the textures where missing in a lot of games and detail levels had obviously been lowered creating a very blocky game of battlefield 1942..

So back to 44.39 for my brother then, but every catalyst driver release has been for me better than the last.

[Austin]

TooNice if 1024x768 is where you want to play AA is very important and 4xAA-6xAA will make a big diff, AF is still very nice too of course. This is a place where the 9600PRO excels esp if o/c'ed a little (there's loads of headromm in the core speed). If you have a decently fast CPU (ie ideally XP2400+ or better) combined with a Rad9600PRO (even stock) you should be able to run all current games very well with max details in 1024x768 with around 4xAA+8xAF (if not more).

Ravens Nest XP2200+ and Rad9700 is one heck of a combination. Out of interest have you tried o/c'ing your 9700 yet as they tend to surpass 9700PRO/9800 speeds? If your CPU is TbredB it will also have a great deal of headroom in it but if it's TbredA or your mobo is stuck to 266FSB XP2200+ is still very nice indeed. It is a much better idea to have a faster gfx card than a faster CPU when it comes to gaming, 9700 is top notch.

"I tried to install the latest 52.16 XP drivers on my brothers machine all the textures where missing in a lot of games and detail levels had obviously been lowered creating a very blocky game of battlefield 1942"

The way it's meant to be played (in nVidia's eyes), it may look poor but it runs faster (than prev drivers as opposed to ATI cards) yeah LOL!

[Ravens Nest]

Originally posted by Austin
[I] Ravens Nest XP2200+ and Rad9700 is one heck of a combination. Out of interest have you tried o/c'ing your 9700 yet as they tend to surpass 9700PRO/9800 speeds? If your CPU is TbredB it will also have a great deal of headroom in it but if it's TbredA or your mobo is stuck to 266FSB XP2200+ is still very nice indeed. It is a much better idea to have a faster gfx card than a faster CPU when it comes to gaming, 9700 is top notch.

No i've not overclocked it yet, coincidentally i was looking today to try to find the latest 9700 pro BIOS with infineon 3.3 ram for use with my 9700 np powercolor , still looking , my XP2200+ is Tbred A so the only overclock i could do is run it at 166FSB did get a nice speed improvement though

"I tried to install the latest 52.16 XP drivers on my brothers machine all the textures where missing in a lot of games and detail levels had obviously been lowered creating a very blocky game of battlefield 1942"
The way it's meant to be played (in nVidia's eyes), it may look poor but it runs faster (than prev drivers as opposed to ATI cards) yeah LOL! [/QUOTE]
Nvidia seem to have a different driver every 3-4 days but they seem to fix some problems and break something else and i remember when i had my GF4 nearly every driver release had a different IQ and Nvidia never fixed the bug my brother had with his GF4 MX440 and Project IGI, with missing gun and wall textures (Hmm sounds familiar!)

[Austin]

You don't need to flash the BIOS to o/c anymore, there's a simple patch you can run (via RivaTuner) which changes one file in the driver set. If you want to get 325/310 stock by flashing the BIOS with a 9700PRO (and accept there's a small risk) then it's cool to do so, plus people reportedly get slightly better o/c's by using the 9700PRO BIOS but I doubt it's much. Anyway check these for info on the BIOS you want, it's ideal to have one that specifcly states 'Infineon 3.3ns' or even more ideally Powercolor (the actual make of your card). Of course you can backup your current BIOS before flashing so you can return to it if needs be.

http://home.mindspring.com/~warp11/

http://www.3dchipset.com/bios/index.php