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Thread: Dvd -/+ Rw ???

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    Spodes Henchman unrealrocks's Avatar
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    Dvd -/+ Rw ???

    Now DVD writers are comming sub 100 pounds there comming into my price range. Although I'm a little confused!

    Whats the difference between -RW and +RW?
    Do both play (or either) in normal DVD players?
    Where does DVD-RAM fit in?
    Are either more expensive (drive or media wise)?
    What are the capacitys of disks?
    I know the most common speed is 4xR (a few 8xs around now), how long would that mean for a full DVD (how ever big that is, lol)!

    Cheers

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    http://www.dvdirect.com/TSS/charts/DVDFormats.htm

    That link contains some non technical details which is nevertheless useful (easy to digest). It'll answer some of your questions.

    Media wise, -RW is currently cheaper I believe (one of the reason popular).

    8x is currently only available for +RW. You'll have to pay a large premium for it though. At that speed it can copy an entire DVD in less than 8min (so I guess at 4x you are looking around 15min?).

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    Spodes Henchman unrealrocks's Avatar
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    OK - thats helped ...

    Although I still don't really see the point in having two formats, lol!

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    2 different groups rivaling for their standard to be accepted cause both want profits.
    I dont like sig pics so i turn off sigs Which doesnt help when i dont know what ive written here! DOH!

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    Spodes Henchman unrealrocks's Avatar
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    Ahhh - OK (Sounds familiar)!

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    I do not know if this is still the case, I think it is and it is the reason I have not bought a DVD-writer yet. All the DVD-writers are single layer. Movie DVDs are dual layer. This means you can’t backup your movie DVD collection, so except for backing up my files I can't see it being much use.
    Last edited by Anders; 19-10-2003 at 03:25 PM.
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    HI Anders.......check this new drive out now by Plextor....the model 708-A.If I am not mistaken I believe it does.

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    Then look at the price
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    As pretty much covered the + and - are diff formats for writing DVDs, both vying to become the accepted std. It isn't a problem any more as 4x writers that are compatible with BOTH stds are not only here but cheap too, do check a little as they still tend to be stronger at one over the other. Both + and - DVDs are compatible with a good 90% of DVD Players out there, most new players should be able to read both formats (inc Rewritable forms). DVD-RAM is pointless for consumers as it's simply about archiving data. If you go the + or - route (rather than a writer that does both) costs are about the same, media too.

    When choosing a DVD Writer you should check it can ideally be multi-regioned, what speed it can (re)write CDs and do a quick check for what media is listed as compatible. Just like in CD Writer's early days not all discs work with all writers, esp at optimal speeds. You should find all writers offer Burn-Proof type technology so that should virtually eliminate 'coasters'. Most (or all?) current writers and blank DVDs are single sided and single layered meaning 4.7GB per DVD (FYI a std CD is 700MB / 0.7GB). Obviously double sided means you can write to both sides to double capacity while double layered means you get 8.5GB per DVD (per side). I think Philips are introducing double layered DVD Writers but I'd expect them to be pricey (inc media) and slower. I think it is 15mins to write a full DVD at 4x, 8x is expensive and discs are rare (AFAIK). I think that answers all the Q's in your original post.

    When it comes to backing up std DVDs it's not quite as straight forward. As said some DVDs you buy are dual layered (some aren't) and they often incorporate some kind of protection (but I think it can be relatively easily overcome). FYI DVD-5 is the term for Single Layered DVDs while DVD-9 is the term for Double Layered DVDs. First you need to decide on the sw to use and whether or not you want to pay for particular stuff.

    Copy programs:

    1. dvd2one - Popular and can fit DVDs > 4.7GB (aka DVD-9) on to one std DVDR (aka DVD-5) taking 30-60 mins average.
    2. dvd95copy.

    You need to rip the DVD to your HD first, using DVDDecrypter or Smartripper. After using Dvd95Copy, you need a burning software like CopyToDvd (recommended) or RecordNow Max to burn your backed up DVD. Dvddecrypter is FREE

    http://www.dvddecrypter.com/download.asp

    (Select Mode -> ISO -> Read and then 1 layer = DVD-5 and 2 layers = DVD-9)

    TO COPY DVD-5 simply select HD-Image (5-10 min) then Select Mode -> ISO -> Write, open saved ISO file then click on the HD->DVD piccy.

    TO COPY DVD-9 to 1 std DVD there are 4 key programs. InstantCopy which is slow (2-4 hours), DVD2one and DVDshrink are both v.fast (15-30min) and finally there's DVD95copy which is decent (30min-3hr).

    OTHERWISE just use DVDtoolbox (free) or DVDxcopy (easy) and copy a DVD-9 to 2 lots of DVD-5's. DVDshrink is best as it has DVD decrypting, is free and v.fast (but can't set final size).

    InstantCopy is the only one to incorporate burning but is SO SLOW, so you need sw like CopyToDVD (free trial) to do the actual burning.

    So IMHO always use DVD DECRYPTER and COPYTODVD and then either use DVD2ONE or DVDSHRINK. Convert & burn times for DVD-9 to DVD-5 are 30-60min and 20-180min.
    You can use Nero (known to be unfriendly with DVDs), InstantDVD, PrimoDVD (RecordNow Max) to burn the image to a blank DVD.

    Sorry that's a little sketchy but it's almost directly copied from my notes (I looked into it but couldn't afford the hw).
    Last edited by Austin; 19-10-2003 at 04:44 PM.

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    Copy programs are illegal in the UK but legal in the US btw. They get round it here by selling you the disk and the lisence to watch the material not the actual material on the disk which still remains theirs.

    Youve missed a few mind:
    DVD X Copy (express and gold), DVD2DVDR and DVD Cloner.

    Have always found nero works fine for backups.
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    The UK laws are sketchy at best, as usual many of them are derived from several hundred years ago and have a few extra updates bolted on ... if you're lucky. Essentially you break the law (by breaching copyright) by taping Coronation Street or Eastenders but it's accepted that so long as you do so for your own use and do not distribute or copy for others that it is accepted practice. The same goes for taping your music CDs to audio cassette for use in your car ... or making copies to MP3 for your portable player. You don't own the copyright nor have you specificly sought the permission of the copyright holder, but so long as you bought and retain the original media it is again accepted practice to copy it in different media forms (or the same for backup) for your own use so long as you do not distribute any of it. So you can make copies of DVDs whether on re-encoded to blank CDs or blank DVDs (or VHS for that matter) again so long as you retain the original recording and do not distribute, it must be for your own use. AFAIK the use of these programs is just like multi-regioning or breaking copy-protection, it is not in itself illegal. Don't hold me to that though LOL!
    Last edited by Austin; 20-10-2003 at 12:34 PM.

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    I'm not looking really for DVD Video ... and they'll prob get stored as DivX onto the disks anyways!

    Its mainly for data ... 4.7Gb a Disk, thats 1/6th of my HDD!

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    Originally posted by unrealrocks
    Its mainly for data ... 4.7Gb a Disk, thats 1/6th of my HDD!
    Rem when CD Writers came out with 700MB per CD? Most HDs weren't even that big back then LOL!

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    Originally posted by Austin
    The UK laws are sketchy at best, as usual many of them are derived from several hundred years ago and have a few extra updates bolted on ... if you're lucky. Essentially you break the law (by breaching copyright) by taping Coronation Street or Eastenders but it's accepted that so long as you do so for your own use and do not distribute or copy for others that it is accepted practice. The same goes for taping your music CDs to audio cassette for use in your car ... or making copies to MP3 for your portable player. You don't own the copyright nor have you specificly sought the permission of the copyright holder, but so long as you bought and retain the original media it is again accepted practice to copy it in different media forms (or the same for backup) for your own use so long as you do not distribute any of it. So you can make copies of DVDs whether on re-encoded to blank CDs or blank DVDs (or VHS for that matter) again so long as you retain the original recording and do not distribute, it must be for your own use. AFAIK the use of these programs is just like multi-regioning or breaking copy-protection, it is not in itself illegal. Don't hold me to that though LOL!
    No dude, its illegal. Taping anything off the tv is timeshifting and you have 2 weeks to watch it after which time you need to remove it from your VHS. DVD backups ARE illegal in the UK as they sell you the lisence to watch it, not the movie itself. The lisence is non transferable to any other media. Same with MP3 players and CDs too - that way you have no leg to stand on when you go back to the shop and request for a CD that copys to MP3 unfortunatly. I think the mp3 companies should go sue the RIAA for this, however, noone cares about the UK market. Doesnt matter who its for or whatever. The only reason they can get away with selling DVD backup software in the UK is that you could use it for a home movie you made from DV.

    Im not saying its RIGHT however im saying what ive been told by many that that's the law. I backup my DVDs cause the devil would have to wear ice skates to get to work before i bring my original DVD disks to uni with me.
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    Originally posted by unrealrocks
    I'm not looking really for DVD Video ... and they'll prob get stored as DivX onto the disks anyways!

    Its mainly for data ... 4.7Gb a Disk, thats 1/6th of my HDD!
    You need: Avi2DVD

    doom9.org
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    Originally posted by Anders
    I do not know if this is still the case, I think it is and it is the reason I have not bought a DVD-writer yet. All the DVD-writers are single layer. Movie DVDs are dual layer. This means you can’t backup your movie DVD collection, so except for backing up my files I can't see it being much use.

    you can shrink dual layer dvd's to one 'normal' dvd,

    using programs such as "dvd 2 one"

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